Garmin Announces Three New Wearable Devices Alongside Contactless Payment Solution 'Garmin Pay'

[44267547]

Not sure where Apple said they wouldn't make a round watch either. Also not sure who made that claim. Certainly not me. As for dismissing the round watch shape: "Ive said the Apple Watch’s rectangular shape with rounded corners just makes sense. “When a huge part of the function is lists, a circle doesn’t make any sense,” Ive said." Source.

I know I mentioned this while ago in a discussion with you. But as long as Jony Ive is behind the current design team with the Apple Watch, I don't believe we will see a round watch anytime soon. That's not to say that one won't eventually happen, but knowingly how Apple is so specific how they do things on a different level, I don't feel they will venture on the market that most wearables have with round versions.

And I'm very familiar with that article with Jony Ive stating his thoughts towards a round design. But given this Apple's third generation Apple Watch, with very minor physical changes expected, it's evident that it's not much of a consideration at this point. Apple could also be taking the iPhone 6/6S/7 approach, where they use the same physical design for an extended amount of time before they offer a new design. whenever we do see's new redesign, and a round design is not introduced, then I don't believe Apple has any interest in that at all.

But a round design would add more diversity and reach to 'Other' demographic who wants a round design, but Apple obviously won't meet everyone's expectations here.

 

[mark081990]

Yes, this seems to be the story. Not one dedicated runner's watch with all the features. Perhaps it will come. As I've learned from this thread, the AW may be my solution, as I'm not a competitive runner, just someone who runs at home 3-4 times a week. The lack of physical buttons on the AW to start and stop runs may be slightly annoying to me, but a few seconds added to my times don't make that much of a difference to me. Maybe some company will finally address this. The Tom Tom Spark III has gotten good reviews. But I'm still waiting for another year of advancement.

Many silly things need to be worked out before elite athletes take it seriously. I'm far far away from being elite. But things such as the whole "3..2..1..Go" that I've read about when you start a run. How is that helpful in a race?

 

[miknos]

I like the design of the analog (brown leather). If Apple at least made a round watch...

 

[satchmo]

Many silly things need to be worked out before elite athletes take it seriously. I'm far far away from being elite. But things such as the whole "3..2..1..Go" that I've read about when you start a run. How is that helpful in a race?

Sadly, I don't think Apple will ever go there. They cater to the masses and the casual athlete.

 

[mark081990]

Jack of all trades. Master of none

 

[Pilgrim1099]

I currently have a Vivoactive, Vivosmart HR, and a Vivomove. Garmin makes great stuff.

I've had the desire to have an Apple Watch for the past 6 months or so, but I could never figure out why. And with the release of the new Vivoactive especially, it makes that question even more difficult.

Have you tried the Vivosmart 3 fitness band watch? I've been looking into it for practical reasons and because I fence. I'm curious how good the heart rate sensors are and the app itself for heath reasons. Does it also automatically track walking the moment the person is outside? Either way, the Vivoactive 3 is tempting!
[doublepost=1504205797][/doublepost]

Jack of all trades. Master of none

Are you kidding? Garmin is the master of GPS navigation and miles ahead of Apple. I have the dedicated GPS with lifetime maps and it never, ever fails me. EVER. And it never needs an internet connection like iPhone does. I live in a mountainous area and my iPhone SE can't pick up a signal when deep in the hills for GPS. But with my Garmin, it picks up easily anywhere I go. It's that stable and reliable. Especially for long distance drives out of state.

When it comes to nav technology, Garmin knows what the eff it's doing.

 

[Stella]

#3 - Could be limited RAM of my iPhone 6, but if the Garmin app is swapped out, which is often, you lose all "smart watch" functionality (weather feed, stocks, Find my phone, and anything else requiring internet connectivity) except for notifications.

I've never had this issue, really, and I do use these features regularly.
[doublepost=1504207511][/doublepost]VS 3.0 will track your steps of course, but it doesn't have a GPS to track your location .

The Vivosport, Vivosmart HR+, Vivoactive has GPS, but you must start an activity to turn on the GPS. The GPS will eat the battery life. They do, including the Vivosmart support Move IQ, which will add automatically record event ( can automatically guess certain activities such as walking, cycling, running ) , but isn't treated like an activity and just records the duration, and doesn't activate GPS.

HRM accuracy, read a review. It sucks for cycling, as do the majority of sensor based HRM, including the AppleWatch.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/04/garmin-vivosmart-3-activity-tracker-in-depth-review.html

Have you tried the Vivosmart 3 fitness band watch? I've been
looking into it for practical reasons and because I fence. I'm curious how good the heart rate sensors are and the app itself for heath reasons. Does it also automatically track walking the moment the person is outside? Either way, the Vivoactive 3 is tempting!
[doublepost=1504205797][/doublepost]

Are you kidding? Garmin is the master of GPS navigation and miles ahead of Apple. I have the dedicated GPS with lifetime maps and it never, ever fails me. EVER. And it never needs an internet connection like iPhone does. I live in a mountainous area and my iPhone SE can't pick up a signal when deep in the hills for GPS. But with my Garmin, it picks up easily anywhere I go. It's that stable and reliable. Especially for long distance drives out of state.

When it comes to nav technology, Garmin knows what the eff it's doing.

 

[deeddawg]

things such as the whole "3..2..1..Go" that I've read about when you start a run.

Haven't ever seen that. Though I use the Nike Run app not the Apple app, so maybe it's over there. I hear the Strava run app is starting to hit its stride too. Of course that's the trouble with reviews and such, they don't always leave the reader with the whole picture.

No I'm not saying the AW2 is at all on par with a dedicated running watch. I still usually grab my Garmin FR235 when going out for a run.

 

[mark081990]

Have you tried the Vivosmart 3 fitness band watch? I've been looking into it for practical reasons and because I fence. I'm curious how good the heart rate sensors are and the app itself for heath reasons. Does it also automatically track walking the moment the person is outside? Either way, the Vivoactive 3 is tempting!
[doublepost=1504205797][/doublepost]

Are you kidding? Garmin is the master of GPS navigation and miles ahead of Apple. I have the dedicated GPS with lifetime maps and it never, ever fails me. EVER. And it never needs an internet connection like iPhone does. I live in a mountainous area and my iPhone SE can't pick up a signal when deep in the hills for GPS. But with my Garmin, it picks up easily anywhere I go. It's that stable and reliable. Especially for long distance drives out of state.

When it comes to nav technology, Garmin knows what the eff it's doing.

Garmin has mastered their products. It's Apple Watch that comes off as the jack of all trades. Where it has everything but nothing quite wows you. If I wasn't looking for a run watch... I wouldn't be looking at it at all since the iphone can basically do anything I'd want the watch to do.
[doublepost=1504209083][/doublepost]

Haven't ever seen that. Though I use the Nike Run app not the Apple app, so maybe it's over there. I hear the Strava run app is starting to hit its stride too. Of course that's the trouble with reviews and such, they don't always leave the reader with the whole picture.

No I'm not saying the AW2 is at all on par with a dedicated running watch. I still usually grab my Garmin FR235 when going out for a run.

Right, that's with apple's from my understanding. Actually Nike's is pretty nice

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Jack of all trades. Master of none

Gamin's apps work very well. Better than AW's native fitness apps. And I own an AW and a Garmin running watch. Can't run with AW if I want decent stats. The Garmin advertises its watches as "smartwatches" because they have apps but they are mostly sports oriented. It's AW that tries to do too much... well except offer adult watch faces.

 

[Stella]

Garmin Pay. how cute.

Does it use tokenization for the payment auths?

Yes, it probably does - IRC - tokenization is a standard and has been for a long time, before Apple Pay ( not an Apple invention). Its used for tap debit and credit payments aka tap and pay.

 

[xDKP]

The ability to stop or pause the watch while you're dripping sweat is a pretty big benefit on the Garmin watches. Autopause on the AW2 doesn't do a bit of good at the finish corral of a large race where you have to keep moving or get run over.

If you use the build in app, just press both buttons and it pauses the run - then you could wipe off your hands and head for a bit before stopping it all together

 

[kdarling]

Since Apple Pay launched how many more have we seen just copy the name? Android Pay, Samsung Pay, Fitbit Pay, Garmin Pay. Am I missing any?

Yep, you are. A cursory US trademark search for contactless payment marks predating Apple Pay, finds examples like Pro Pay, Easy Pay, Smooth Pay, Monitise Pay, O Pay, Isis Ready Pay, Express Pay, Tap & Pay, Mastercard Pay. And of course "Loop Pay" was also publicly used before "Apple Pay".

Not to mention that Google came out with Google Wallet, Samsung came out with Samsung Wallet... then Apple started using the name Apple Wallet.

So should Apple have avoided using "Pay" and "Wallet"? Of course not. Common terms help users and brands alike.

Apple didn't invent using "pay" for electronic payments, or "wallet" for a virtual wallet, any more than Microsoft invented "windows" for a windowing GUI.

In short, "Pay" is a generic word for transactions and doesn't belong to anyone. Now, if Apple had called their method something non-obvious like "Apple Air Dollars" and someone else afterwards used "Air Dollars", then people could give them grief. Otherwise, no.

Does it use tokenization for the payment auths?

Yes. It uses the same MC/Visa token specfications that Apple Pay uses.

As has been noted on this forum countless times, Apple did not invent any of the contactless transaction part of Apple Pay, including tokenization.

---

A cool thing about FitPay and their software library, is that they apparently also plan to support NFC transit payments, door unlocking, etc.

 

[nostaws]

I don't know why people are getting hung up on garmin pay. Don't use it (I won't).

But I love my vivosmart hr, and have wanted a fenix but couldn't justify the $. So probably going to get this.

One thing about my vivosmart is if I turn off the heart rate monitor (except for workouts) I can just about stretch out my battery to two weeks.

 

[satchmo]

A bit redundant. The vast majority of people have a phone with them... or some other kind of music device.

Realistically, adding music capability would have to be via bluetooth. any physical connection would require water proofing, which means added cost. All Garmin fitness devices are currently waterproof and should stay that way.

Most athletes (especially runners), prefer to carry as little as possible during a workout.
If TomTom and Fitbit can achieve BT, waterproofing and music for $300, I'm sure Garmin can.

No, I think Garmin dropped the ball.
If continued improvements in fitness tracking are found in the Apple Watch 3, Apple may steal some of the hardcore fitness customers away from Garmin.

 

[deeddawg]

If you use the build in app, just press both buttons and it pauses the run - then you could wipe off your hands and head for a bit before stopping it all together

Thanks, I did not know that. I've not used the Apple app since there's been no mechanism to export activities to online services such as Strava.
[doublepost=1504303618][/doublepost]

A bit redundant. The vast majority of people have a phone with them...

I very specifically do NOT want my phone with me when out for a run. I often run at lunchtime at work and it's my time to mentally decompress. My phone stays behind.

 

[Mac 128]

Not sure where Apple said they wouldn't make a round watch either. Also not sure who made that claim. Certainly not me. As for dismissing the round watch shape: "Ive said the Apple Watch’s rectangular shape with rounded corners just makes sense. “When a huge part of the function is lists, a circle doesn’t make any sense,” Ive said." Source.

Funnily enough, that same article contains thoughts on glasses as a wearable: “We always thought that glasses were not a smart move, from a point of view that people would not really want to wear them. They were intrusive, instead of pushing technology to the background, as we’ve always believed,” Cook said. “We always thought it would flop, and, you know, so far it has.” I mention this in relation to the rumor that Apple will have some AR glasses in the future.

Let's not quote paraphrased articles, and go back to the original source.

"For the watch, it was a year before Ive settled on straps that clicked into slots. Ive later tested watchbands by wearing them outside the studio with other watches. The shape of the body, meanwhile, barely changed: a rectangle with rounded corners. “When a huge part of the function is lists”—of names, or appointments—“a circle doesn’t make any sense,” Ive said. Its final form resembles one of Newson’s watches, and the Cartier Santos, from 1904."

What this says to me, divined from other similar comments, is that for the first iteration of the watch -- a rectangle made the most sense. I haven't seen any statements by Ive that he doesn't think a circular design won't work for the watch, or that he doesn't like round watches. The fact that he kept a crown speaks volumes to his admiration of classic shape and design functionality.

He's also said that once people wear something they have the expectation of choice. He's also said that the watch is meant for brief glances, and anything more a person should pull out their iPhone.

So the reality is, there's nothing I've read that doesn't leave Ive wide open to designing a round watch at some later date. Indeed, much of what he's said actually seems to support the idea.

There's no question in my mind, just like the AirPods for which there is no mistaking their heritage, that Ive chose not only to go with the most consistent approach with displaying text common throughout the industry, in that a rectangular watch that looks like a miniature iPhone makes a clear statement about which brand the customer is wearing. He, and Apple went with an iconic design, that also makes the most sense for the developer in order to most easily support a brand new product category for Apple. Once there's market penetration, and profits for the developers, Apple can change it up, with developers willing to support a more complicated paradigm. It also gives Apple a chance to work out a better round UI than Android and Tizen have rushed to market, while taking an easier approach to getting theirs quickly to market.

 

[Lioness~]

Garmin Vivomove HR is beautiful.

Glad I saw this, have some options when AW3 comes next week.
See what improvements  have?

Had Garmin forerunner earlier, had polar recently.

See what I choose?

 

[mark081990]

I think I figured this out. Someone please point out if I'm off base but it hit me yesterday... I could remove the bands from the Apple Watch. Stick it in a pocket. Use BT headphones. And use my Garmin on my wrist. Essentially just using the Apple Watch for music purposes.

 

[deeddawg]

Interesting thought. Do you have your watch set to lock when you take it off your wrist? Would that impact the ability to control the music?

When I'm going out for a run, I just move my AW to my right wrist and put my Garmin on my left. Only reason I switch the AW over is I get far fewer bluetooth music dropouts with it on my right wrist. I suspect my BT headphones antenna is on the right side. (doesn't matter if indoors as there's lots to reflect the BT signal but when outdoors, cross-body dropouts are a real thing. at least for me they are)

 

[mark081990]

Interesting thought. Do you have your watch set to lock when you take it off your wrist? Would that impact the ability to control the music?

When I'm going out for a run, I just move my AW to my right wrist and put my Garmin on my left. Only reason I switch the AW over is I get far fewer bluetooth music dropouts with it on my right wrist. I suspect my BT headphones antenna is on the right side. (doesn't matter if indoors as there's lots to reflect the BT signal but when outdoors, cross-body dropouts are a real thing. at least for me they are)

I personally have no interest in deviating from Garmin for runs. All of my runs are on Garmin connect and it's very nice to view.

I didn't know the BT signal was so spotty until just a few days ago. Is that a reflection on the headphones or on AW? Will it be borderline impossible to listen to music with the watch in one of those internal pockets in running shorts or the zipper pouch in the rear? I wonder...

 

[deeddawg]

Based on past experience with a late model ipod nano with bluetooth, the pocket in the back of shorts seemed to be fine. It also depends on your BT headphones too. I use mpow cheetahs. I'm sure you'll figure something out that works for you.

 

[satchmo]

I think I figured this out. Someone please point out if I'm off base but it hit me yesterday... I could remove the bands from the Apple Watch. Stick it in a pocket. Use BT headphones. And use my Garmin on my wrist. Essentially just using the Apple Watch for music purposes.

Sure...or spend only $150 on an iPod nano and accomplish the same.