Getting bored of iOS or iPhone? This is worth looking at.

[QuarterSwede]

Terrible rebuttal.

If applications are time-limited, that means it's not truly multitasking. In practice, it creates a hassle compared to Android.

What he said was poorly stated. Not all tasks are time limited (it's not based on apps, it's based on the task). GPS, for instance, stays active until you tell the app to stop giving you directions or you kill it. Same goes for music (Pandora, Slacker, Spotify, whatever).

However, if you're downloading a file (podcast app for instance) you have a 10 minute window to get it done once you've put the app in the background. In my experience, the 10 minute window is almost always enough time.

Basically what Apple has done is make a compromise to maintain the best possible battery life. It's obviously something they've achieved as the iPhone is one of the longer lasting phones out there.

 

[matttye]

What he said was poorly stated. Not all tasks are time limited (it's not based on apps, it's based on the task). GPS, for instance, stays active until you tell the app to stop giving you directions or you kill it. Same goes for music (Pandora, Slacker, Spotify, whatever).

However, if you're downloading a file (podcast app for instance) you have a 10 minute window to get it done once you've put the app in the background. In my experience, the 10 minute window is almost always enough time.

Basically what Apple has done is make a compromise to maintain the best possible battery life. It's obviously something they've achieved as the iPhone is one of the longer lasting phones out there.

Placing arbitrary limits on what apps can do to maintain battery life is surely not desirable behaviour. Clearly there are times when things will take longer than ten minutes to download.

 

[DodgeV83]

Placing arbitrary limits on what apps can do to maintain battery life is surely not desirable behaviour. Clearly there are times when things will take longer than ten minutes to download.

What makes you believe the limit is arbitrary? Just because some things take longer than 10 minutes, doesn't mean the limit is arbitrary. Nor does it mean it isn't the desirable behavior for the majority of users.

 

[matttye]

What makes you believe the limit is arbitrary? Just because some things take longer than 10 minutes, doesn't mean the limit is arbitrary. Nor does it mean it isn't the desirable behavior for the majority of users.

It can't not be arbitrary in this situation. There's no set amount of time that tasks take to complete, therefore placing any kind of hard limit on them is senseless.

I'm not sure how it would be desirable behaviour for anybody. If you didn't want the file to download, surely you would stop or pause the download.

Apple dumb down the OS at the cost of basic features and expectations. If I minimise an app I expect it to carry on what it's doing until its done. That's a reasonable expectation of a modern day multitasking OS, is it not?

 

[QuarterSwede]

It can't not be arbitrary in this situation. There's no set amount of time that tasks take to complete, therefore placing any kind of hard limit on them is senseless.

I'm not sure how it would be desirable behaviour for anybody. If you didn't want the file to download, surely you would stop or pause the download.

Apple dumb down the OS at the cost of basic features and expectations. If I minimise an app I expect it to carry on what it's doing until its done. That's a reasonable expectation of a modern day multitasking OS, is it not?

Except that Apple makes phones for the average joe, people that don't realize that downloading 3 video podcasts will take a hit on the battery (I realize that's not the best example of what the average joe would not realize he/she is downloading).

I'll agree that it's an arbitrary limit but it's one that I think is reasonable for most people.

 

[DodgeV83]

It can't not be arbitrary in this situation. There's no set amount of time that tasks take to complete, therefore placing any kind of hard limit on them is senseless.

I'm not sure how it would be desirable behaviour for anybody. If you didn't want the file to download, surely you would stop or pause the download.

Apple dumb down the OS at the cost of basic features and expectations. If I minimise an app I expect it to carry on what it's doing until its done. That's a reasonable expectation of a modern day multitasking OS, is it not?

Technically speaking, the limit would be arbitrary if it were completely random and no thought were put into it. I doubt that is the case. For all we know, extensive testing was done to show that the overwhelming number of apps that need more thn 10 minutes are doing something the user doesn't want. You mention downloading, with the data caps we now have, downloading in the background can be a dangerous - and expensive - proposition.

Personally, I'm surprised when I close an app and things happen in the background. Just yesterday I closed a podcasting app, yet still heard the DING noises indicating the app was finished downloading something, long after I hit the power button and put my phone down. It took me a second to realize what was happening, I can't imagine what a "normal person" (non-techie) would have thought was happening.

Note I said "close" and not "minimize". There is no distinction in iOS or Android (I think). I remember my Windows Mobile phone had the ability to either close an app or minimize it, but I could never really figure out exactly what it was doing. It was confusing.

What if I turned off the option to only download on Wifi and the app silently downloaded a few gigs of podcasts in the background via 3G? My data cap will be gone.

What if the app for some reason needed a consistent 80% of my CPU while doing so? If I understand Android correctly, the app will keep consuming CPU for that app until another app needs some CPU cycles. What if that never happens? What if I'm just checking my mail and not using much CPU, or what if I hit the power button and put the phone down for a few hours? Will the battery be completely dead when I return?

I don't think the normal person wants to deal with all of that.

(Please correct me if I misunderstood how Android multi-tasking works)

 

[lordofthereef]

Except that Apple makes phones for the average joe, people that don't realize that downloading 3 video podcasts will take a hit on the battery (I realize that's not the best example of what the average joe would not realize he/she is downloading).

I'll agree that it's an arbitrary limit but it's one that I think is reasonable for most people.

That's fair. So let me go waist deep into settings and change that, if I choose. The customer that doesn't know better won't even know how to change it, so no harm done.

 

[DodgeV83]

That's fair. So let me go waist deep into settings and change that, if I choose. The customer that doesn't know better won't even know how to change it, so no harm done.

If there's anything I've learned over the years, if there's a button, they'll push it. They might not fully understand what it means, but they'll push it!

Never underestimate the ability of the average user to find buttons to push

 

[lordofthereef]

If there's anything I've learned over the years, if there's a button, they'll push it. They might not fully understand what it means, but they'll push it!

Never underestimate the ability of the average user to find buttons to push

Oh I get that. But to state that the proper answer is to not give a power user the choice at all is a bit discouraging.

That said, the deeper you go into settings, the harder it is to accidentally push things. I don't know too many people who accidentally hit the "restore phone" button. Stick it right under that, for all I care. And ask me six times if I REALLY want to make the change.

 

[QuarterSwede]

Oh I get that. But to state that the proper answer is to not give a power user the choice at all is a bit discouraging.

That said, the deeper you go into settings, the harder it is to accidentally push things. I don't know too many people who accidentally hit the "restore phone" button. Stick it right under that, for all I care. And ask me six times if I REALLY want to make the change.

I would LOVE for Apple to add power user settings don't get me wrong. But based on their history there is no chance in hell they will.

 

[lordofthereef]

I would LOVE for Apple to add power user settings don't get me wrong. But based on their history there is no chance in hell they will.

I think you are right on this one.

Though you never know. Apple's stance was that we didn't need MMS either... for a LONG time.

 

[sarcosis]

That would be totally cool if they had two different user modes: Normal and a Jailbreakish kinda thing where you will still need to get apps from the App Store, but you could do some stuff that the Jailbreakers have been doing for a while like customizing the lock screen, re-arranging the icons, etc. I think that would interesting, but would never happen.

 

[barredfreak]

The guy in the video is more of listing how iOS and Android are different. If he wanted to get an iPhone but with all the features of an Android phone, then why is he getting an iPhone? There really is no comparison between these two operating systems.

 

[lordofthereef]

The guy in the video is more of listing how iOS and Android are different. If he wanted to get an iPhone but with all the features of an Android phone, then why is he getting an iPhone? There really is no comparison between these two operating systems.

I would say the two OS's are very similar, from a UI standpoint. iOS looks and operates like and Android without widgets, essentially.

 

[barredfreak]

I agree. If iOS did include widgets and other minute things that don't really matter to most people, they would be too much like Android. It's good that both systems have their own perks.

 

[Shenaniganz08]

Good point, perhaps you are right...



If you don't think this guy is an Android fan I think you should re-watch the videos. It's very clear in the hand language and how he handles the devices as well as some derisive laughter on the more subtle level.

The dude sounds like he is trying to stay on the fence when it is very clear that he has definitely chosen which side he wishes to promote.

Not complaining about it, overall the video was well done.

+1 he looks like a fumbling idiot with the iPhone, constantly pressing buttons, switching between tasks before letting them load, basically using the phone like "he had never used it before". Then he has bookmared youtube video links, how is that fair ?, etc etc

I Googled "La mirada in and out" and it gave me the exact In and Out I wanted. I was able to click on the "directions" link that quickly switched over to Google maps. If i want turn by turn I can copy and paste the address into GPX MotionX GPS Drive (which i never use because I despise turn by turn as I find it easier to just look at the directions ahead of time)

And don't get me started on widgets, they waste space and battery. If I want to check the weather I can a) look out the window or b) open the weather app in a few seconds. Its not something I need to use precious battery life constantly checking.

If you want to customize your phone then just jailbreak it, simple as that. You get the simplicity of the iPhone, quality apps, and you can change anything that bugs you.

The only thing I wish was easier on my iphone right now are
a) being able to use it as a storage device
b) being able to sync music/videos with multiple accounts/computers (drag and drop)
c) FLASH !

 

[Yumunum]

I didn't have time to go through the whole hour worth of videos, but scrolling through I see he was clearly biased vs Android, giving the pros and not the cons.

If I saw it correctly he pirated an app during the video...installing "Cut The Rope" (didn't look like the free version) from an email attachment a friend sent him. He didn't seem to discuss the legal ramifications of this, the issues regarding developers not wanting to develop for Android due to the easy piracy this enables, nor did he mention the malware ramifications.

Again, I didn't watch the whole hour, so maybe it was addressed later, but it seemed highly biased to me. He ended that segment saying "This is the beauty of Android", where most people would consider it one of the primary downfalls of Android.

That's literally the only part of the video I watched, and was not impressed. Putting the same arguments in video form do not change the value of the arguments.

He also used game emulators/game ROMs, which of course, are illegal.

The title is misleading. "Android Vs iOS The Truth about Apple and Google's OS" All you see in the videos are the benefits of Android, and only the downsides of iOS. It'd make more sense to make videos titled something like "The benefits of Android over iOS" That would portray the proper idea of his videos.

I'm not knocking Android here though. If I could get a Galaxy Nexus right now... I'd be pretty tempted. Android has matured a bit since I left the platform.

 

[Lindenhurst]

As an ex iPhone user who has a house full of apple products, and who is someone who went with an Android phone because I wanted a bigger screen, I totally agree that for those wanting more customization than an iPhone will allow, the Android phone is great. Android is definitely more complicated than ios, but for someone who likes to tinker, it is very nice.
There is a phone for everyone and as much as my wife prefers her iPhone, I now prefer my galaxy note. A much as I loved my iPhone, I went with the note simply because of the large screen, and after some two months of owning the device, I am still learning all the things Android does that I never knew it was able to do.

 

[matttye]

Except that Apple makes phones for the average joe, people that don't realize that downloading 3 video podcasts will take a hit on the battery (I realize that's not the best example of what the average joe would not realize he/she is downloading).

I'll agree that it's an arbitrary limit but it's one that I think is reasonable for most people.

If I'm honest I haven't even noticed the limitation on my iPad (assuming its present there too), but yes, Apple really dumbs everything down. I think that's why the iPhone isn't for me; I am IT literate and want features, I don't need protecting.

Technically speaking, the limit would be arbitrary if it were completely random and no thought were put into it. I doubt that is the case. For all we know, extensive testing was done to show that the overwhelming number of apps that need more thn 10 minutes are doing something the user doesn't want. You mention downloading, with the data caps we now have, downloading in the background can be a dangerous - and expensive - proposition.

Personally, I'm surprised when I close an app and things happen in the background. Just yesterday I closed a podcasting app, yet still heard the DING noises indicating the app was finished downloading something, long after I hit the power button and put my phone down. It took me a second to realize what was happening, I can't imagine what a "normal person" (non-techie) would have thought was happening.

If you want to completely close an app you need to double click the home button, long press on an icon in the multitasking tray and hit the x button. The choice is there for you to close apps that you don't want to run in the background. A lot of apps also have their own options.

Note I said "close" and not "minimize". There is no distinction in iOS or Android (I think). I remember my Windows Mobile phone had the ability to either close an app or minimize it, but I could never really figure out exactly what it was doing. It was confusing.

There's a distinction in both, which I outlined above. The method of closing Android apps is very similar.

What if I turned off the option to only download on Wifi and the app silently downloaded a few gigs of podcasts in the background via 3G? My data cap will be gone.

If you turned off that option it would be your fault! I'm sure you wouldn't do it again after that. Citing user stupidity as a reason not to add more features just doesn't make sense to me. Nobody else does that. Cars aren't limited to only 5 miles per hour. Cookers can't only be used for ten minutes because of the risk of fire.

People should be EDUCATED, not shielded from everything at the cost of decent features.

What if the app for some reason needed a consistent 80% of my CPU while doing so? If I understand Android correctly, the app will keep consuming CPU for that app until another app needs some CPU cycles. What if that never happens? What if I'm just checking my mail and not using much CPU, or what if I hit the power button and put the phone down for a few hours? Will the battery be completely dead when I return?

It's possible, but in my two and a half years of using Android I've never seen anything like that.

----------

I would LOVE for Apple to add power user settings don't get me wrong. But based on their history there is no chance in hell they will.

Exactly. Apples stance seems to be that they want to make something anybody can pick up and use with no learning curve.

----------

He also used game emulators/game ROMs, which of course, are illegal.

The title is misleading. "Android Vs iOS The Truth about Apple and Google's OS" All you see in the videos are the benefits of Android, and only the downsides of iOS. It'd make more sense to make videos titled something like "The benefits of Android over iOS" That would portray the proper idea of his videos.

I'm not knocking Android here though. If I could get a Galaxy Nexus right now... I'd be pretty tempted. Android has matured a bit since I left the platform.

He explained why his videos are titled that way and why they're one sided towards Android, and it's because there's a lot of unfounded negativity towards Android (primarily from ios users). He's going to make a more rounded "iOS vs. Android" video later which looks at the pros and cons of both.

He touches upon lots of the regular complaints people make about Android; laggy scrolling, battery life, etc, and shows that Android isn't always like that.

 

[Wrathwitch]

His rebuttal regarding the ringtones is indeed poor. However, it is very easy to add ringtones.

1) Find m4a you like.
2) rename file to .m4r.
3) double click to add to iTunes.
4) sync device.

It's still easier to do on Android but not rocket science on ios.

I think his point WAS that it is easier. He was attempting to rebut some misconceptions about Android and it's percieved lack of ease of use.

 

[Lindenhurst]

+1 he looks like a fumbling idiot with the iPhone, constantly pressing buttons, switching between tasks before letting them load, basically using the phone like "he had never used it before". Then he has bookmared youtube video links, how is that fair ?, etc etc

I Googled "La mirada in and out" and it gave me the exact In and Out I wanted. I was able to click on the "directions" link that quickly switched over to Google maps. If i want turn by turn I can copy and paste the address into GPX MotionX GPS Drive (which i never use because I despise turn by turn as I find it easier to just look at the directions ahead of time)

And don't get me started on widgets, they waste space and battery. If I want to check the weather I can a) look out the window or b) open the weather app in a few seconds. Its not something I need to use precious battery life constantly checking.

If you want to customize your phone then just jailbreak it, simple as that. You get the simplicity of the iPhone, quality apps, and you can change anything that bugs you.

The only thing I wish was easier on my iphone right now are
a) being able to use it as a storage device
b) being able to sync music/videos with multiple accounts/computers (drag and drop)
c) FLASH !

He didn't look like a fumbling idiot at all. I think the videos were very well put together. Obviously he prefers Android devices for his phones. That was obvious, but he even went as far as using an older Android device to show what "was" possible on them as well. I think the point he was making about widgets is that they are available for those that want them, and many including myself do want them. As far as "despising" turn by turn, I think you are a minority there. Everyone knows Googles voice navigation is far superior to Apples, yet you despise it. C'mon now. Who is not being objective here? I am about as objective as it gets, especially since I pay the phone bill in my home and 2 out of the 4 lines are on iPhones, and the other are on Android devices.


I'm not knocking Iphone in any way, but it is a phone for someone who will accept what Apple will let them run on it, whereas Android devices are all about letting the user define what he wants it to do. Apple is simple, and really does just work, where Android is more complicated, and works beautifully for those who will take the time to tweak it.

I kind of get that the whole point of his videos was to show people that Android is not nearly as bad as what so many people claim it to be on these forums. In fact. when I finally tried an Android device, I was shocked that it didn't totally suck. After reading these posts on Macrumors for the past few years, I just assumed that Android devices were complete junk. SOme of the cheaper phones out there are crap, but that isn't Android, but it is the handset. Also surprising is how Google is getting the Android devices to play nicely with the Apple ecosystem. It may not be as simple, but Android just works as well. Also, the Google ecosystem ain't half bad either!

Sometimes the debates on this forum remind me of the old "Ford VS Chevy" debates!
Some people find it hard to be impartial toward a competing device. I guess it's human nature.

 

[The Phazer]

1) Customization: True. iOS has little customization. That's what makes it easy for regular users. You can't change the default browser or email client. This is a valid complaint that some people that use custom browsers (tinkerers) have.

I really don't see how you can attempt to claim that only "tinkerers" use non-default browsers. The general purpose computer space remains many, many times the size of the iOS one, and the majority of it's users do not use the default browser. This is a mainstream use, not a "tinkerer" one.

2) Click address to go to maps: True that Safari doesn't automagically turn addresses into links. Mail does it. Don't know why doesn't Safari. BUT in Safari you can select the text and put it into maps. The reason he couldn't select the text is that Dolphin Browser (his "tinkerer" browser) didn't allow him to select the text.

Nope, Dolphin is rendering the page itself using Safari's webkit engine, so the inability to select text would be the same with any iOS brower, including Safari. This is a direct limitation of not allowing any other rendering engine in the App Store (Opera sort of bypasses this by not really being an internet browser).

This is infuriating - for example, Facebook in Safari will not allow you to copy and paste text, so you cannot copy an address into the maps app (nor will the Facebook app).

In fact it's slower and confusing to regular users.

Supposition.

Applications that put back buttons on the top right or bottom right are just bad applications. You can't stop people from making bad applications...

Apple could stop themselves from making bad applications with inconsistent UI... And certainly, they have a fair amount of influence over... say... Twitter, who's iOS UI is godawful now and getting worse.

7) "With iOS developers can do whatever they want": If Apple rejects developers for not following the UI Guidelines, they're tyrants. If they let them through, they're inconsistent and bad. Damned if you do, damned if you don't... Love it! Also as opposed to the Android Market apps, right? (Yes I'm talking about rogue apps and malware)

The truth is that Apple have been caught several times letting through apps that break the safety and copyright rules, but blocking apps for censorship of political speech or adult agency.

That is a disaster for society, where Apple make themselves an unaccountable censor abusing legal monopoly positions in other areas to damage people's ability to avoid it.

8) Not a true multitasking OS: Yes it is. Applications just are time-limited (10 minutes, and all the developer has to do is ask for background time) while in the background so that they don't consume all your battery. His example that the download paused is just one more case where he chose a bad app.

Which... is not true multitasking. Could I write an app that stayed in the background and woke at 6am, just before I got up and downloaded various feeds for me to read on the subway with no signal? No? Then it isn't true multitasking.

You might try and argue that battery life is worth this tradeoff, but you cannot possibly say it is actual multitasking. Because it's not.

9) You have to double click, hold, then tap the "-" to close all apps: The beauty of iOS' time-limited way is that you DON'T HAVE to close apps... EVER! They most likely aren't running and taking you CPU and if the OS needs memory, it'll close the largest memory hogs for you. Don't waste your time closing apps.

Except it doesn't really work, as a cursory play of Infinity Blade 2 if you don't kill the various Apple apps will show you.

And FYI, television is 4:3 not 3:2. Again, taking what's good for the screen size he likes and trying to seem like that's better for everyone.

Television is 16:9, not 4:3. Though it must be said Android has no consistent ratio so it was an odd point.

12) Adding custom ringtone to iOS: Open iTunes, look for ringtone, buy. Done. Don't want to buy? Download m4r from internet, double click to add to iTunes, sync iPhone. Done. What's the difficulty again? The path he thinks is the easiest is the one he wants to tinker and because is the way that Android does it. Another case of taking what HE wants and saying it's the better option.

No, I'm sorry, but that is clearly more difficult for the user than the Android method. Anything involving iTunes is. Hell, just opening iTunes for the vast majority of the iOS user base on Windows is a chore.

The same syncing he does via Chrome, the iPhone does via iCloud for Safari.

Unless you use Snow Leopard...

GOD I didn't want to write all that, but I hate FUD... No mobile OS is perfect right now...

Curious about how keen you were to write it then.

Phazer

 

[Menge]

I really don't see how you can attempt to claim that only "tinkerers" use non-default browsers. The general purpose computer space remains many, many times the size of the iOS one, and the majority of it's users do not use the default browser. This is a mainstream use, not a "tinkerer" one.

What I meant is: regular users use the bundled software. It's the main reason the DOJ went after MS back in the Windows 9X days. If you went as far as to get a different browser because you want feature "X", then you have a level of knowledge beyond the general public. I'd qualify that as tinkering. I'm not disregarding his complaint. It IS VALID.

Nope, Dolphin is rendering the page itself using Safari's webkit engine, so the inability to select text would be the same with any iOS brower, including Safari. This is a direct limitation of not allowing any other rendering engine in the App Store (Opera sort of bypasses this by not really being an internet browser).

This is infuriating - for example, Facebook in Safari will not allow you to copy and paste text, so you cannot copy an address into the maps app (nor will the Facebook app).

You do know that the Webkit view that's available to developers doesn't have exactly the same features as the Webkit view used in Safari, right? Developers also can customize those behaviors to their liking. And I did my research. I went to the same In-and-Out site he did and I was able to copy text perfectly fine while using Safari. If a certain site does some hoodoo (Facebook) or a browser customizes the long-tap behavior (Dolphin), don't blame it on Safari.

Supposition.

Talk to non-techie people.

Apple could stop themselves from making bad applications with inconsistent UI... And certainly, they have a fair amount of influence over... say... Twitter, who's iOS UI is godawful now and getting worse.

The truth is that Apple have been caught several times letting through apps that break the safety and copyright rules, but blocking apps for censorship of political speech or adult agency.

That is a disaster for society, where Apple make themselves an unaccountable censor abusing legal monopoly positions in other areas to damage people's ability to avoid it.

Apple used to have an even stricter App Store approval policy, but got flak for it. Now that it's relaxed, it's getting flak for it. They just can't win on this, can they?

If applications are time-limited, that means it's not truly multitasking. In practice, it creates a hassle compared to Android.

Which... is not true multitasking. Could I write an app that stayed in the background and woke at 6am, just before I got up and downloaded various feeds for me to read on the subway with no signal? No? Then it isn't true multitasking.

Multitasking dictates that multiple tasks can be executed at once. iOS does that perfectly. But its approach (limiting tasks by time) can be limiting to some specific tasks (the aforementioned feeds downloading thing). My rebuttal to the guy wasn't that iOS did multitasking the same as Android. It doesn't. It was just that it DID multitasking whereas he said it didn't. This is what I mean by his tendentiousness - taking wrong things and stating them as truth.

Except it doesn't really work, as a cursory play of Infinity Blade 2 if you don't kill the various Apple apps will show you.

Never had those issues. Sorry.

No, I'm sorry, but that is clearly more difficult for the user than the Android method. Anything involving iTunes is. Hell, just opening iTunes for the vast majority of the iOS user base on Windows is a chore.

iTunes on the PC/Mac, maybe. But iTunes on iOS (for the purchasing option) is a breeze.

M4R files? Please. The chance of the particular song you want as a ringtone being in m4r format is slim to none. Anyone who thinks custom ringtones on iOS are easier than on Android is kidding himself.

Again: if you want to MAKE your own, then it's definitely more difficult. But if you have the ringtones, it's just as easy to add them. Problem is that people want to roll their own. On Windows, that's a bit more difficult. On the Mac Garageband practically does it for you.

Unless you use Snow Leopard...

Yes, Apple does have a quick trigger to kill old platforms... Mountain Lion is coming soon. Could be a good time to upgrade!

The difference is that Google sync is compatible with practically any platform. iCloud is compatible only with Apple.

iCloud bookmarks sync works on Windows, too. Even with Internet Explorer! But true that Apple doesn't support all platforms. Shame, huh?

Curious about how keen you were to write it then.

It really annoyed me how he took misinformation and published it as the canonical truth! I hate to do these discussions online because you're bound to bump up into jerks, but I couldn't help being so annoyed at the outright lies he put on the video. I know you're judging me, by your final snarky comment, but you can't deny that the original video isn't tendentious. I was just the one who couldn't stay quiet about it, knowing that fact.

 

[matttye]

I think his point WAS that it is easier. He was attempting to rebut some misconceptions about Android and it's percieved lack of ease of use.

My comment was mainly aimed at this part of his comment:

"The chance of the particular song you want as a ringtone being in m4r format is slim to none."

You don't need to find a song in m4r format. m4r is just an m4a file with a renamed file extension so that iTunes knows it's a ringtone.

 

[Wrathwitch]

My comment was mainly aimed at this part of his comment:

"The chance of the particular song you want as a ringtone being in m4r format is slim to none."

You don't need to find a song in m4r format. m4r is just an m4a file with a renamed file extension so that iTunes knows it's a ringtone.

Ahh my misunderstanding, apologies!