Glass is complicated as a design element, give it time

[one more]

He's in charge of design, and design during his tenure (even before Liquid Glass) has increasingly had usability issues and bad design choices.

To be fair, iOS 18.5 (the latest public release) is pretty good, IMO, and what they are aiming for with LG looks promising too, so I would wait till September before giving up on it.

Meet Liquid Glass - WWDC25 - Videos - Apple Developer

Liquid Glass unifies Apple platform design language while providing a more dynamic and expressive user experience. Get to know the design...

developer.apple.com

 

[one more]

And if they REALLY wanted to show off, they'd base the design on water, not glass. Make it not just transparent but also ripply!

Well, LG is essentially that and looks and behaves just like drops of water. It does not ripple, as such, but it wiggles and morphs instead. The transparency remains.

 

[GrassShark]

To be fair, iOS 18.5 (the latest public release) is pretty good, IMO, and what they are aiming for with LG looks promising too, so I would wait till September before giving up on it.

I know this is the iOS section of the forum, but the point about design under Dye suffering extends beyond iOS.

 

[zenmacx]

Android is trash, but enjoy it anyway. It's literally malware and the UI is pretty bad.

Android and iOS are each excellent in their own ways. Using both daily over the last several years reveals they’ve become more and more alike and useful.

It’s just a matter of preferences and personal opinion that’s heavily influenced by Apples superior job of marketing.

 

[Compote]

I hate Liquid Glass, and I don't want it. I don't need my older iPhone to slump even more over debatably fancy visual effects that make the UI unusable, confusing, and unclear.

I hate the way it looks, I hate that I'll get stuck with it if I go on with Apple devices, I hate that Apple is so stupid and directionless, they let whatever doofus decide this was a good idea.

I miss the days of iOS 7, and I resent the backward creep into color gradient internet 2.0 style it has suffered for 10 years. Flat design is a superior, utilitarian design.

I don't want a glass design that failed on delivery in 2006 when Microsoft came up with Aero, and we all switched it off or downloaded mods so it wouldn't be like it was.

 

[sunapple]

I've been with Apple since the 90s, I know how they work. I have even done things for them at high levels. Apple is an iterative company, they don't randomly do things like all these other companies which show off great demos, but in reality they are fun demos.

I can also criticize them, I have many complaints. You have the right do that as well. Also no one is changing the topic, I have no idea what you're saying tbh.

Do you have any better ideas? Go ahead and spill it.

I understand your main point is to wait out the many iterations that are yet to come. While I agree that the refinements will be welcome, I think it is fair to criticise their starting point. And I would argue again that this should be a matter of months rather than years.

You mention somewhere that Android is geared towards Gen Z:

Android is also the same, the latest UI updates are pretty ugly and unusable imo. It looks like a Gen Z designers wet dream. They aren't improving quality of life.

When I watch the Liquid Glass intro from Alan Dye (YouTube) I am getting that exact feeling. Notice how it's all about "content". All UI elements need to be as clear as possible to not be too obtrusive to your webpages and TikTok video's. I so do not agree with this strategy. And they're actually backtracking with Beta 2 and 3. But this seems like a dumb starting point, to come up with a completely clear material that offers no contrast and is simply hard to see. I also find the movements throughout the buttons and sliders with the light refractions distracting. I'd give it a plain old background.

I do like how menus are morphing in shape and how their animations are smooth as butter, no question, very cool. Contextually aware UI also seems to be the answer to a unified UI across their platforms. Floating menu's take up space but look more integrated with the hardware.

How am I defensive? Capitalism allows you to do as you please. Enjoy the ride lmao

My plans to move are bigger than just the phone and I had decided on it before iOS 26, so it is not solely because of the topic at hand. But I'm starting with setting up a home network and server and moving my data away from Apple. I move my email to service A, passwords to service B, etc, preferring open source and European based. Then I'll be able to get whatever hardware I want. Like a laptop running Linux or a European designed repairable Fairphone running e/OS (Android without the Google services). I just did not want to be tied to a single company anymore and I'm happy putting in the extra effort. I'd also rather support these smaller passionate companies and initiatives. They often have the vibe you would get from Apple a very long time ago.

 

[Rradcircless]

Go to Android then, enjoy the UI.

The only thing I can fault Apple right now is how behind they are in AI (Siri still sucks), but even then, I use primarily ChatGPT + the plethora of other AI tools that keep changing every day.

Mitigate use of planet killing server based AI.

 

[ignatius345]

The UI still doesn't feel like it's ready. It needs more time to be refined.

Agree, the whole thing needs to be refined. What if -- hear me out -- what if there was a program where Apple could release an early in-progress version of an OS so that needs more time to be refined.

People would install this early version and feedback would be sent to Apple so they could improve it in subsequent versions. They'd repeat this process for a few months until the final release was refined and ready for general use.

I was even thinking of a name: they could call it a "beta" release. What do you think, too crazy?

 

[HouseLannister]

Agree, the whole thing needs to be refined. What if -- hear me out -- what if there was a program where Apple could release an early in-progress version of an OS so that needs more time to be refined.

People would install this early version and feedback would be sent to Apple so they could improve it in subsequent versions. They'd repeat this process for a few months until the final release was refined and ready for general use.

I was even thinking of a name: they could call it a "beta" release. What do you think, too crazy?

Except it should be alpha and internal and not shown off in a big YouTube video for the media to post about. First impressions and all that. And they don't need beta testing to know it is fugly. They need time. Should have kept their mouths shut and continued to work on it for another several months at least.

 

[Love-hate 🍏 relationship]

It's not just cosmetic changes, it unifies all their devices which they have been trying to do for ages. It also pushes how the future of UI will look like, mostly with wearables, etc. Phones have matured already, not much to push in that category.

Unifies all except visionOS

 

[Tozovac]

UI/UX design is very difficult, you have to be able to make it usable for all ages and humans from all walks of life should be able to use it easily.

Definitely true. But with liquid glass (and iOS7) Apple completely disregards the "all ages ad humans from all walks of life" aspect of users, many of whom who will NOT benefit from major reinventions but actually, will be severely negatively affected by those major reinventions.

A generalization backed by my empirical experience:

• These reinventions seem to truly benefit only a small volume of users...mostly the young and those who really dig the latest and greatest and newest tech and are willing to be challenged and adapt.
• Then most of us choose to accept and adapt, whether we feel any benefit or setback in usability.
• But...a large number of "older users," of which there are MANY, DO NOT benefit from these cosmetic reinventions and actually are forced to take steps back in usability. They do not easily adjust and are often confused and angry when Apple scratches its 10 year itch to force some reinventions and pull the rug out and rearrange all the deck chairs on the Titanic...which to me used to be the hallmark of Microsoft Windows which would completely reinvent their OS every half decade or so in an admission of "well what we had before was really bad so TRY THIS."

Regardless of what gets released for 26, Apple is certain to dial back the worst aspects over the next few years, towards something closer to what used to be...to "what used to just work."

Others here have highlighted well that liquid glass isn't fixing anything that's broken. It's not like we are in a horrible state of confusion now...and especially around 2010-2012 when (IMHO) Apple's various UI/UX's were in a very nicely balanced state of intuitiveness and prettiness and fun-to-use-ness and "It just works-ness."

Starting in 2013, major reinventions like iOS7 and now 26 seem driven more by Marketing and/or 1 or 2 Apple leaders wanting to see their vision blasted out into the world than a need to fix something broken...

 

[Sami13496]

That is one way to look at it. Perhaps it will turn into something nice. But.

That glass, as pretty as it might look in the final version, is completely unnecessary design element, from the usability standpoint.

I’m trying to say that first they ruin years of refinement and improvement (iOS 18) by completely redesigning the UI, and then we’re supposed to give it time? For what? What exactly are we getting after the wait that we didn’t already have? Transparent, glass-like buttons? Yay.

Also, let me quote myself:

A user interface should be something you barely notice, ideally, you shouldn’t even feel like you’re using one. In the end, it’s just a layer between the user and the task they want to complete. The best UI would be one where you simply think of something, and it happens. Until that’s possible, we rely on various interfaces like iOS. But even then, the goal should be to make them as invisible as possible.

With iOS 26, the problem is that you’re constantly aware of the interface, you feel it, and not in a good way. Every interaction reminds you of the design choices and the friction they create.

 

[Tozovac]

Your and my thoughts are peas in a pod.

With iOS 26, the problem is that you’re constantly aware of the interface, you feel it, and not in a good way. Every interaction reminds you of the design choices and the friction they create.

But...a large number of "older users," of which there are MANY, DO NOT benefit from these cosmetic reinventions and actually are forced to take steps back in usability.

They do not easily adjust and are often confused and angry when Apple scratches its 10 year itch to force some reinventions and pull the rug out and rearrange all the deck chairs on the Titanic...

 

[FatLouie]

When you can't baffle them with B.S., you dazzle them with brilliance.

Liquid Glass is the brilliance that covers up the A.I. and SIRI B.S. baffle.

 

[SDAVE]

This is a lot of words to basically agree that there's no benefit to liquid glass from a user perspective.


I'm not seeing anything that looks cheap on that link you shared. Happy for you to highlight things you think look cheap if this isn an important point to you.


"Modifying the dimming, etc" are small tweaks. Liquid Glass needs way more than small tweaks to be usable. Even in the liquid glass design video they put up around WWDC, it was riddled with usability issues. I could see what they were going for, but on the whole it was still not great.


But the thread is about liquid glass. Betas being slow is irrelevant to bad design


I have, but you've dodged them and instead focused on handwaving away the tangible issues because of some notion that past design wins mean anything for future design success. You say liquid glass isn't supposed to make things better, but is it supposed to make it worse? Because that's where we're at now. Apple talks about making the content the focus, but then implement awful solutions like blurring and mirroring the edges of content to fill now-empty space, or introducing a design system that can't account for apps when the UI is the content. Not everything is a video player, many apps don't have "content".

You're letting this all off the hook because you're imagining products that don't exist yet, and deciding that imagined future products should excuse terrible usability now. I think that's a bad way to think. Apple is a big company, they have the resources to plan for new devices in-house while leaving their existing ones unmolested by awful design.


Dude, come on. If we're not holding the guy in charge of design responsible for design then why have these roles? Should we just have Tim Cook at the top and a flat org chart under him? Dye's job comes with responsibility, it's not a symbolic role.

Dye should, at the very least, be the filter that stops bad ideas from being seen by people above him. So either he believes that these bad ideas and bad designs are good, or he isn't an effective filter. Either way, it's not a good look.

Tbh I am not seeing any good arguments against LG here. You're mostly talking about legibility and performance and nothing else.

 

[GrassShark]

Tbh I am not seeing any good arguments against LG here. You're mostly talking about legibility and performance and nothing else.

If you don't think poor legibility is a strong argument against a design style for a user interface then I really have to question your design credentials.

Also, you're the one who keeps bringing up performance.

 

[123123123]

Tbh I am not seeing any good arguments against LG here. You're mostly talking about legibility and performance and nothing else.

So…the most important aspects by far of any user interface?

 

[HouseLannister]

"Your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should."​

 

[Dr McKay]

Android is trash, but enjoy it anyway. It's literally malware and the UI is pretty bad.

Oh, you're one of those people. 🤣

 

[DankeBrutus]

Android is trash, but enjoy it anyway. It's literally malware and the UI is pretty bad.

Every OS has pros and cons. I prefer iOS but calling Android "literally malware" is honestly silly.

I strongly disagree about the Material 3 design being ugly though. It's playful, colourful and customisable but can be toned down, highly legible, uses movement well. It basically hits many of the points I think Apple fails to hit with Liquid Glass. I'm not saying Apple has to do exactly what Google is doing, but they seems to be going in the wrong direction on multiple fronts.

I like what I have seen with Material 3 Expressive. Having said that it has a similar issue to Liquid Glass where information density takes a hit. Especially on mobile. Liquid Glass has sent some menu items away from the primary view. Like in Camera where it is more barebones. Or Music where your tabs get sent away when you start scrolling. I really like the glass effects. The way background colours refract in the glass elements is really good looking. I thought legibility was going to be an issue but after playing around with macOS 26 dev beta 1 in a VM I didn't find that to be a problem. Seeing Apple tone down some of the glass effects is a little disappointing. I'm hoping Apple has a slider or set degrees of translucency.
Material 3 has some menu items/options becoming more prominent than before, like I believe I saw in Gmail the "Send" takes up more screen space. I do really like those animations though. The colours are also quite nice. Material 3 looks much more "fun" for lack of a better word. But not in a way that looks like it would get exhausting.

 

[GrassShark]

I like what I have seen with Material 3 Expressive. Having said that it has a similar issue to Liquid Glass where information density takes a hit. Especially on mobile. Liquid Glass has sent some menu items away from the primary view. Like in Camera where it is more barebones. Or Music where your tabs get sent away when you start scrolling. I really like the glass effects. The way background colours refract in the glass elements is really good looking. I thought legibility was going to be an issue but after playing around with macOS 26 dev beta 1 in a VM I didn't find that to be a problem. Seeing Apple tone down some of the glass effects is a little disappointing. I'm hoping Apple has a slider or set degrees of translucency.
Material 3 has some menu items/options becoming more prominent than before, like I believe I saw in Gmail the "Send" takes up more screen space. I do really like those animations though. The colours are also quite nice. Material 3 looks much more "fun" for lack of a better word. But not in a way that looks like it would get exhausting.

Totally agreed on the information density point, it seems to be an issue across the board with modern UIs.

On the glass stuff, I actually really dislike the glass look in general, which is maybe why I'm less forgiving than others on the usability stuff. I can live with (by my taste) ugly design as long as it offers other improvements, but liquid glass seems to be a new look at the expense of usability. I'm not expecting to see a slider for translucency — but as long as the legibility stuff is fixed I can live with it.

I agree with Material 3 feeling more fun though. The colours and shapes etc feel a lot more inviting to me than what are essentially blobs of water. Hopefully Apple has plans to inject a bit more personality or whimsy into liquid glass over time, because the current iteration feels quite sterile.

 

[SDAVE]

If you don't think poor legibility is a strong argument against a design style for a user interface then I really have to question your design credentials.

Also, you're the one who keeps bringing up performance.

It's not a strong argument because that can be fixed over time just like when iOS 7 was released. I remember the day it was announced, people went crazy and said so many nasty things about it.

 

[GrassShark]

It's not a strong argument because that can be fixed over time just like when iOS 7 was released. I remember the day it was announced, people went crazy and said so many nasty things about it.

Sure, and when it's fixed I'll no longer consider it a problem. Until that happens though, it's a pretty significant one.

I'm curious what you would consider a strong argument against any design system if you include the caveat of "yeah, it could get fixed later, maybe" to cover up basically any problem.

 

[aorr]

People also thought chrome and silver looked futuristic. Sci-fi movies have done it since the 50s. Maybe we should go back to a brushed metal UI?

View attachment 2528929

I loved brushed metal! Please bring it back!!

 

[Cape Dave]

iOS 26 introduces a major development of highly detailed elements of glass, which includes refractions, gaussian blur, lighting and so on using high levels of the graphics prowess of the Apple silicone, all done in real time.

People who don't understand how complicated it is to render real glass in real time won't know that it will take MANY iterations of iOS to get to point of excellence.

Apple is looking at this as their UI for the next 10 years. People aren't going to be fully happy with iOS 26 even when the final builds come around. It will be around iOS 30 that it will settle in and people will get used to it and Apple will refine it over time.

Is the Dev beta buggy? Of course it is. Public betas will be much more stable.

Look at the bigger picture here. Many companies have been trying to do glass UI for over 30 years and Apple finally did it. Even Microsoft a few years ago tried to do it with great looking renders, but to actually pull it off is another story.

UI/UX design is very difficult, you have to be able to make it usable for all ages and humans from all walks of life should be able to use it easily.

Or, give different options for all the ages/uses you mentioned. Basically, glass sucks as a UI/UX.