Global Warming Or Climate Loonies - You Make The Call

[eva01]

I just honestly think there is no way for humans to change the climate for the better of themselves. I do not believe there is a way for humanity to decide they want to not have the sea level increase so they would go down to the polar ice caps and make it larger. It sounds like a horrible SciFi movie like the Core (where humanity was trying to fight mother nature by getting rid of volcanoes and earthquakes i believe)

I honestly think that there is nothing we can do about the climate on a huge scale such as the entire earth. On a small scale we can probably change the climate a bit. We will see what the earth decides to do in the next 20 or so years.

 

[whocares]

That's the big deal - if we were just worried about the planet, that's one thing, but the concern is *humans* and our way of life along with many other species will be dramatically affected. There have been numerous mass extinctions as is evidence by the geologic and fossil record - but we all don't want one now, especially if there is something we can do about it.

That's a very interesting point you make there!

And on the topic of mass extinction, many will argue that we are currently going through one at present, several species disapearing daily. People imagine mass extinction as a catastrophic event (meteorite killed dinosaures, lol), when they are infact slow, gradual processes. 10 to 100 ky (long for us, but instantaneous at geological scale).

I just honestly think there is no way for humans to change the climate for the better of themselves. I do not believe there is a way for humanity to decide they want to not have the sea level increase so they would go down to the polar ice caps and make it larger. It sounds like a horrible SciFi movie like the Core (where humanity was trying to fight mother nature by getting rid of volcanoes and earthquakes i believe)

I honestly think that there is nothing we can do about the climate on a huge scale such as the entire earth. On a small scale we can probably change the climate a bit. We will see what the earth decides to do in the next 20 or so years.

You do of course realise that bacteria are what formed Earth's atmosphere 4 billion years ago actually making the place livable? Living organisms (including humans) can have a HUGE effect on climate.

 

[eva01]

You do of course realise that bacteria are what formed Earth's atmosphere 4 billion years ago actually making the place livable? Living organisms (including humans) can have a HUGE effect on climate.

And how long did it take the bacteria to do this, about 2 billion years i believe it was before anything was able to breath oxygen. As of right now i believe humans would not be able to stop a surge in the sea levels or some other catastrophic event, over a bunch of millions of years then sure humans will possibly be able to have a huge control over the climate. Seeing as it took microbes billions of years to make the planet even habitable.

 

[IJ Reilly]

I'm not going to play Mr. Science on this because I don't honestly know any more about this subject than anyone else and a lot less than some. But FWIW I happened to be in Alaska this summer and visited the Mendenhall Glacier near Juno. The rangers told us the glacier had been retreating at an average rate of 60 feet a year -- but that last year it retreated 600 feet. To my admittedly untrained eye, this looks like something unusual going on. Is human activity involved? Don't know; I'll let the scientists debate, but I do know that the "greenhouse effect" was predicted at least 30 years ago, before we even had the global temperature change data we've got today. I believe we've always had at least one good reason to break ourselves from the hydrocarbon habit, now we may have another.

 

[greatdevourer]

Sure, we've had climate change before, but nothing on this scale. In the last 50 years, we've done the equivilent of more like 500 years in times past. We are a menace to ourselves. Yes, it might just be luck, but to say that it's all a myth created by fundimentalists who can't afford cars is just fscking stupid

 

[Otto Rehhagel]

Speaking to some friends who are fishermen, they are telling me that places like George's bank (off the coast of New England) have fewer fish today, not because of over-fishing (used to be but not today) but because of higher water temperatures and water salinity that are either killing off fish, or are forcing them to migrate.

 

[eva01]

Sure, we've had climate change before, but nothing on this scale. In the last 50 years, we've done the equivilent of more like 500 years in times past. We are a menace to ourselves. Yes, it might just be luck, but to say that it's all a myth created by fundimentalists who can't afford cars is just fscking stupid

I would say every ice age is about on this scale, meteor hits and causes and ice age to occur within 200 years killing almost all living creatures on the planet.

Happened about 65 million years ago.

do humans play a part in this? maybe, i am not saying they don't play a part in this. I just think it is being blown a bit out of proportion

 

[mpw]

So in summary as I see it;
Everyone agrees that global warming is real and that it is going to create 'problem' weather.
Some people think this is a result of human consumption of fossil fuels while some other people think it would/will happen as a natural global cycle.
There is no evidence that reduction of fossil fuel consumption would be detrimental to the natural cycle but there is evidence that this reduction would prevent unnatural global warming.

I think that's about it. So where the argument against consumption reduction? "It MIGHT not hurt and it's fun" vs "It MIGHT hurt and it's not necessary" a no-brainer surely?

 

[rainman::|:|]

Global warming? What? Oh, you mean that thing that non-SUV drivers keep railing about? Well, I've got A/C in my H3. Wouldn't bother me none. Doesn't matter that a hurricane is one of nature's biggest forces, and the amount of thermal energy we release into the environment is tens of times that per year. Doesn't matter that there are greenhouse-gasses. Nature will overcome, you idiots. Eventually all of that heat and radiation will ball itself into a tiny black hole, and leave the earth forever, it will be jubilant, we will dance. And that, my dear friends, is the perfectly logical, absolutely true reason that global warming isn't a problem.



I'd hate to see these global-warming-doesn't-exist people's homes. Do they think they can just dump garbage on the floor, and no one will have to clean that up either?

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Just like Pollution isnt a problem as long as your not down wind. Putting our heads in the sand and declaring all is well isnt going to make it so. Pollution is fact just as shrinking polar caps are fact. Spinning is just that Spinning but it seems to have become a way of life in Washington the past 5 years. Just Spin everything and throw $$$ to uneducate the masses into thinking we can keep polluting forever and then let the grandkids deal with it after we are dead and gone. We can do better then spinning science.

 

[RacerX]

The truth, of course, lies somewhere in the middle. We don't know whether greenhouse gases are responsible for 90%, 50%, or 1% of the observed temperature increase. To rush to conclusions without rigorous analysis and further data collection would be to deny any scientific validity of the results that were found in the first place.

From an academic point of view, you don't want to rush to judgment... and from an academic point of view, you don't need to rush to judgment.

But we aren't talking about this as an academic endeavor. We are talking about this as a consequence of inaction.

The problem with a wait and see approach is sort of like standing on the train tracks debating if the train baring down on you will swerve or turn away at the last moment rather than hit you. If you step off the tracks, you'll never really know if the train would have swerved... from an academic point of view. But if you decide to stay on the tracks so as not to rush to conclusions without rigorous analysis and further data collection... well, you get the picture.

Don't expect scientist to absolutely say anything on this subject. It is not their place.

We, the people of this planet have been given as much facts as we are really going to get. The evidence is mounting... along with the property damage and loss of life.

We can either take steps and attempt to make a difference, or we can watch the train wondering if it'll actually hit us.



The key thing now is that it is already too late to stop it. We had a chance, we didn't take it... so here we are.

Given that, we need to both act to slow, reverse or minimize the effects of this and start being prepared for the worst of it.

Terrorist may be scary... but they have neither the abilities or resources that Mother Nature is putting together in her arsenal.

The main advantage we have over Mother Nature is that we can see it coming.



Well, some of us can at least.

 

[whocares]

And how long did it take the bacteria to do this, about 2 billion years i believe it was before anything was able to breath oxygen. As of right now i believe humans would not be able to stop a surge in the sea levels or some other catastrophic event, over a bunch of millions of years then sure humans will possibly be able to have a huge control over the climate. Seeing as it took microbes billions of years to make the planet even habitable.

That's possibly true (not sure how long it took), but bacteria are microscopic, were small and starting from nothing.
Humans are big(ger) and have technology to help them modify the atmosphere. The atmosphere's composition has already been altered in measurable proportions over the past 150 years (think industrial revolution): pCO2 has rocketed in an exponential curve. Strange coincidence...

 

[floyde]

This is interesting:

Alaska landscape transformed by warmer climate

 

[IJ Reilly]

So in summary as I see it;
Everyone agrees that global warming is real and that it is going to create 'problem' weather.
Some people think this is a result of human consumption of fossil fuels while some other people think it would/will happen as a natural global cycle.
There is no evidence that reduction of fossil fuel consumption would be detrimental to the natural cycle but there is evidence that this reduction would prevent unnatural global warming.

I think that's about it. So where the argument against consumption reduction? "It MIGHT not hurt and it's fun" vs "It MIGHT hurt and it's not necessary" a no-brainer surely?

My thoughts on this exactly. Burning hydrocarbons is a problem even if it doesn't contribute to global climate change. We already have ample reason to kick the habit.

 

[Xtremehkr]

Well, if every action has a reaction, then perhaps pumping millions of tons of climate warming pollutants/material may eventually have a reaction.

/missed a couple of words there

 

[Mr. Anderson]

http://www.davidreilly.com/dodo/

man can and will continue to have an impact on the world - period.

as RacerX mention - the wait and see approach is potential doom. There is more than enough evidence to show that man impacts the environment - what about the ozone, eh?

eva01 - you're allowed to have an opinion, that's fine, but you should back your argument up with some facts.

as for the global climate change, one key thing to remember is the difference between human historical time and geologic time. Changes in the past, except those precipitated by catastrophic events occur in several orders of magnitude than what we're currently seeing. No matter how big the system (earth, in this case) lasting effects can occur given the right conditions. Millions of extra tons of greenhouse gasses just don't get absorbed by the earth's systems. Energy might be stored and released in measurable amounts, but that doesn't mean that the systems doing the work can actually handle it.

True, there isn't a definitive, black and white answer here given all the unknown variables in the equation. But ask yourself if its worth the risk. It might not be you yourself who has to deal with any of the hardships brought on by global warming, but you children or grandchildren instead. If you can do something now to delay it enough so that sometime in the future we could actually do something about it, then you're helping out. Just accepting it as inevitable is defeatist and helps no one.

And humans have impacted the planet even before modern times. Ice cores in Greenland have shown a significant increase in lead and other pollutants from the time of the Romans - proof that it doesn't take as much as you might think to make a dent in the system.

D

 

[512ke]

If there is even a reasonable chance that our burning fossil fuels is causing global warming...

Should we do anything about it? I say: yeah.

Will we do anything about it? I say: doubtful.

Points:

1) Our government is controlled by a who's who of petroleum/energy industry bigwigs.

2) The fossil fuel industry is making tons of money.

People don't change when they're making money. Industries don't change. They become more of the same not something different.

3) Our country's economy is based on increasing consumption (i.e. cargo container ships, plastics, petroleum, airplanes, cutting down trees, etc.).

I say: Doesn't sound like a recipe for change/reform.

 

[Mac Kiwi]

If one positive things comes out of the worlds governments discussing this,its that they/we realize we cant go on as we have been in the past.The thing that is sometimes forgotten also is that we leave this world to our children and there children,so dont we have an obligation to them also?