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Glue on MBP logic board

F

Fireenze

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 29, 2013
4
0
Hey guys/girls.

So to get the big picture I need to tell the whole story.

So I got a late MBP 15' 2011. Since day one ive had issues with it, I got my logicboard changed twice and now looking for a third change.

I paid for the first one because my MBP was out of warrenty fair enough.
So I got it repaired and then three weeks later it had to be changed again and I did not have to pay because of the 90 days warrenty.

So what happened this time was I was playing on my MPB and then all of the sudden the screen went sideways and i had lines on my screen. So I figured after doing research that it was my GFX card that went out, and it also got confirmed by two apple tech guys.
Now while opening it up I had weird glue pieces on my logic board, several places and the lead genius could not give me a clear answer. so after debating with them trying to get them to tell me what the glue was they escortet me out of the apple store. Afterwards I called costumer relation and told them what happened and how rude they were in there. In my defense the only thing i kept saying was that the solution of paying $300 for another logic board repair was not going to work for me. I kept asking them what kind of repair they had to do in order for my computer to work and they said logic board, but because my previous repairs was unrelated.

Now my question is have anyone ever seen glue like this on a logic board ( I will post pictures. ) If no or yes what is your thoughts on what it is ? thermal paste?

I really hope you guys are whilling to answer my questions.
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That's BGA adhesive or underfill. It's used to strenghten the solder joints of BGA chips. There's a bit more of the stuff than usually, but I'd be more worried if there was none.

What I find more unusual, are what seem to be traces of flux around the grounding pin. Maybe someone with more experience with refurbished logic boards can tell you, if that's common or not.
 
What you should've done is sell the machine immediately after replacing the logic board.

A more permanent fix is to get a re-ball. This is where they remove the chip and replace the solder beads with new ones. Apple does not do this. You need a 3-rd party service to do it, but it would last much longer.
 
yjchua95 said:
I've to disagree with you.

That logic board was one of the Radeongate boards. Even a lead solder reball doesn't guarantee a permanent fix.
Click to expand...
So instead of getting Apple to fix a problem that they are the cause of, you'd just push the problem onto another person. Great way of thinking.
 
T'hain Esh Kelch said:
So instead of getting Apple to fix a problem that they are the cause of, you'd just push the problem onto another person. Great way of thinking.
Click to expand...

Caveat emptor always applies. The buyer alone is responsible for checking the quality and suitability of goods before a purchase is made.

That said, were I to sell it, I'd put a footnote stating that it's a Radeongate affected board.
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Just to make sure so you guys say its an adhersive ? does it mean that it is glue that is holding the chips ? or is it cooling paste.

The lead techn genius at the apple store told costumer relation that it is cooling paste.
 
Fireenze said:
glue that is holding the chips ? or is it cooling paste.
Click to expand...

Answered your own question right there. It is a bit of both - and it serves a very important set of purposes for the chips and logic board. BGA adhesive/underfill makes the connection between the chips and the logic board more robust and can help mediate temperature gradients between the chip and board.

Calling the Genius out, in this situation they are confused about the component they are talking about.
 
T'hain Esh Kelch said:
So instead of getting Apple to fix a problem that they are the cause of, you'd just push the problem onto another person. Great way of thinking.
Click to expand...

Here in Finland we have a saying which goes "Pannaan vahinko kiertämään" which roughly translates to "Let's make the damage go round" and means to pass on your misfortune. An example of doing what the saying suggests is that when you have something stolen, you steal the replacement from someone else.

Seriously thou, it is an extremely shi**y attitude to pass on what you know is a faulty device that will fail at some point. I have an early 2011 machine that suffers from the same problems and last summer when I was in the market for a second hand rMBP part of my hesitation came from the fact that after buying the rMBP I'd sell off my 2011 MBP that might very likely break down. Never did buy that rMBP and come new year the 2011 MBP unsurprisingly succumb to the GPU flaw it's infamous for. Ironically enough it broke down within weeks of my phone, washing machine and tablet all breaking down or being sent in for service.

My insurance company just OK'd the machine for a motherboard replacement on their expense, but because I at least like to think of myself as a nice guy I probably won't be selling it on.
 
SarcasticJoe said:
Here in Finland we have a saying which goes "Pannaan vahinko kiertämään" which roughly translates to "Let's make the damage go round" and means to pass on your misfortune. An example of doing what the saying suggests is that when you have something stolen, you steal the replacement from someone else.

Seriously thou, it is an extremely shi**y attitude to pass on what you know is a faulty device that will fail at some point. I have an early 2011 machine that suffers from the same problems and last summer when I was in the market for a second hand rMBP part of my hesitation came from the fact that after buying the rMBP I'd sell off my 2011 MBP that might very likely break down. Never did buy that rMBP and come new year the 2011 MBP unsurprisingly succumb to the GPU flaw it's infamous for. Ironically enough it broke down within weeks of my phone, washing machine and tablet all breaking down or being sent in for service.

My insurance company just OK'd the machine for a motherboard replacement on their expense, but because I at least like to think of myself as a nice guy I probably won't be selling it on.
Click to expand...

Selling the machine on ebay is the same as buying it directly from Apple. Apple knows that their devices are faulty, yet they do nothing. They still had been selling them, and all the buyers come up with this misfortune.

Though if you really want to be nice, instead of official, you can list is as "For parts or not working" even though it works, because you know it will not work soon.
 
poiihy said:
Selling the machine on ebay is the same as buying it directly from Apple. Apple knows that their devices are faulty, yet they do nothing. They still had been selling them, and all the buyers come up with this misfortune.
Click to expand...
The reliability problem didn't actually really begin to emerge until late 2012 when the affected models had already been phased out. More probably than not it's pretty much a repeat of the late 2007/early 2008 situation, but this time they don't have anyone else to pick up the tab as it's mostly bad solder joints put together at one of their contractors that fail over time, not faulty components being delivered to them.

Sure, I could have sold it as spares, but that would have gotten me considerably less money and somebody might have ended up with that doomed motherboard. That person might not have even been the one I sold the junk machine to, he might have seen that it works, at the moment, and decided to sell it. The motherboard on that machine generally goes for over $500 so it's no wonder if someone sells it on.
 
T'hain Esh Kelch said:
So in your world being a fence is perfectly acceptable?
Click to expand...

I'm not being a fence. As I said, caveat emptor always applies.

It's always the buyer's responsibility to do his/her homework before purchasing it.

Of course, I'd mark that it had its logic board replaced, but it's up to the buyer to do his/her homework to check whether the entire line has manufacturing flaws or not. If the buyer doesn't do that, he/she is an idiot.
 
T'hain Esh Kelch said:
So in your world being a fence is perfectly acceptable?
Click to expand...

He had the laptop repaired, he's free to sell the laptop. There's nothing wrong with selling something that was repaired. Do you say the same thing with a car that had major engine work? No, its been handled by apple and now the OP or anyone can buy it if they wish.
 
maflynn said:
He had the laptop repaired, he's free to sell the laptop. There's nothing wrong with selling something that was repaired. Do you say the same thing with a car that had major engine work? No, its been handled by apple and now the OP or anyone can buy it if they wish.
Click to expand...
What? That is certainly not comparable. You very well know that the poster meant to shove the problem away with the recommendation.

yjchua95 said:
I'm not being a fence. As I said, caveat emptor always applies.
Click to expand...
I am not saying you are. I am saying you think it is okay to be one, because a fence is also selling "problematic" hardware.

It's always the buyer's responsibility to do his/her homework before purchasing it.

Of course, I'd mark that it had its logic board replaced, but it's up to the buyer to do his/her homework to check whether the entire line has manufacturing flaws or not. If the buyer doesn't do that, he/she is an idiot.
Click to expand...
Of course it is the buyers problem to ensure that he get the correct gods. But to sell something that you have a pretty good idea will fail in the future is just plain evil and egoistic.
 
T'hain Esh Kelch said:
What? That is certainly not comparable. You very well know that the poster meant to shove the problem away with the recommendation.


I am not saying you are. I am saying you think it is okay to be one, because a fence is also selling "problematic" hardware.


Of course it is the buyers problem to ensure that he get the correct gods. But to sell something that you have a pretty good idea will fail in the future is just plain evil and egoistic.
Click to expand...

It's not evil, because the buyer is supposed to know about the problems.

The logic board was replaced by Apple. Do you expect me to be a friggin' clairvoyant with a bloody crystal ball and predict when will it fail?

I'll say that the board was replaced by Apple, but I'm not Nostradamus and can't predict whether the problems are fully resolved or not, so I will assume that it's fully resolved since Apple replaced it.

It's okay to be a 'fence', because not everyone is a clairvoyant like you who can predict whether it's problematic and will fail in a few months or not. Since the logic board's replaced by Apple, I'd expect it to be no longer problematic, even if it actually isn't the case, but then, I'm not a clairvoyant so I can't predict.

By selling it off, I'm not 'shoving the problem away'. The buyer should be aware of any flaws and know whether he/she will be inheriting any manufacturing flaws or not. If the buyer isn't aware, the blame is squarely on that bloke.
 
OK, first things first, I'm guessing by your first post that you were aggressive (or demanding) with the guys in the Apple store - that will get you nowhere with them. Treat them nicely, and you'll generally get more help from them.

That is a very poorly refurbished board :(.

Question: How long ago was the previous repair? If it was less than a year or so you may have a case. If it was back in 2012/13, you may struggle.

If the last repair was a reasonable amount of time ago, here's what I would (personally) do.

- Book an appointment and return to the Apple store. Don't ask them for a free repair - ask them for a written quotation and estimate confirming the fault, and parts that would need to be replaced. If you don't have your old repair conformations, ask them for copies (they can print them).

- Write a letter (not phone, not email, just a regular letter by registered mail) enclosing copies of the previous repair bills, the diagnosis confirming the same faulty part, and the photographs you have posted here showing the poor quality of the part used in the previous repair. Politely request (not ask, request) that due to the repetition of the issue and the poor quality of the part used that the machine is repaired at no cost to yourself. Mention that if they refuse to do so, you will contact your solicitor. Ask them to put any refusal in writing.

- If they refuse to do so (unlikely if the repair was < 1 year ago), then you're probably best asking your solicitor whether you could claim any rights under the Magnuson–Moss act, specifically under the implied warranty of merchantability and implied warranty of fitness for a particular purpose. Given that there is a class action lawsuit in process for this fault, and it's < 4 years old, you *should* have a reasonably good claim. You may have to pay for an expert to diagnose an inherent fault, but that's not too difficult. Once a solicitor gets involved, Apple will most likely buckle - it's not worth their time or the agro for a $300 (including profit margins!) repair bill.
 
hmm..

Hi there,

I think, they got you out of the Apple Store because they knew it.

They knew, you got not a new logic board, but a kind of emergency repaired one. To me it looks like your board had been major stripped from bad chips and then balled it back with new chips. The repair tech used a bit too much of the glue. Thats not a bad thing, however it shows you, that you did not get a new replacement logic board from the factory one, but a reballed one.

I would demand a real replacement, not a recalled / recalled one. Especially if the one in question acts weird.

:apple:
 
AlexMaximus said:
Hi there,

I think, they got you out of the Apple Store because they knew it.

They knew, you got not a new logic board, but a kind of emergency repaired one. To me it looks like your board had been major stripped from bad chips and then balled it back with new chips. The repair tech used a bit too much of the glue. Thats not a bad thing, however it shows you, that you did not get a new replacement logic board from the factory one, but a reballed one.

I would demand a real replacement, not a recalled / recalled one. Especially if the one in question acts weird.

:apple:
Click to expand...

NONE of the replacement boards are new. They're all refurbished.

OP. Book an appointment at a different Apple Store. Be polite but firm and say that this is the third time you've had an issue, and that you feel this is unacceptable for something that should be a quality product.

Don't mention the glue on the logic board. It's irrelevant. You didn't put it there, so it is not your problem.

Ask them if there is anything that they can do for you.
 
Last edited:
Brian Y said:
OK, first things first, I'm guessing by your first post that you were aggressive (or demanding) with the guys in the Apple store - that will get you nowhere with them. Treat them nicely, and you'll generally get more help from them.
Click to expand...

Too be honest with you :) I was not aggressive at all. The only thing I kept repeating was the fact that the solution they gave me would not work. When I then started to ask them difficult questions they could not answer was when they wanted me out of the store. I was calm the whole time. They all ready had their mind set in stone when I discribed my problem.

To the rest of you Thank you for replying to my issue

Brian Y - I will do that next time for sure !
 
Fireenze said:
Too be honest with you :) I was not aggressive at all. The only thing I kept repeating was the fact that the solution they gave me would not work. When I then started to ask them difficult questions they could not answer was when they wanted me out of the store. I was calm the whole time. They all ready had their mind set in stone when I discribed my problem.

To the rest of you Thank you for replying to my issue

Brian Y - I will do that next time for sure !
Click to expand...

(y)

How have you got on with them so far - any progress? :)
 
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