GM and Chrysler potential merger?

[SactoGuy18]

I do know that the Chevrolet Cruze is the model that will save GM--reasonably powerful (thanks to the turbocharged 1.4-liter engine!), and uses a new six-speed automatic to get the best fuel economy. By the time the Cruze arrives in the US market probably early calendar year 2010, we may also see a new even smaller model, the replacement for the Chevrolet Aveo that will be built on an all-new platform (which will be shared with the next-generation Opel/Vauxhall Corsa).

By the way, the next Camaro could be a surprisingly good seller, especially the "base" V-6 model that uses the same 300 bhp 3.5-liter V-6 found on the Cadillac CTS with either a six-speed manual or automatic transmission. GM says the new Camaro with the V-6 engine will be quite fast, but still get 19 mpg city/27 mpg highway (based on testing to EPA 2008 standards).

 

[SactoGuy18]

I don't like it. Interior doesn't look too terrible, but the exterior is bland IMO

The only problem nowadays is that cars are starting to look more bland because of the need to reduce aerodynamic drag AND meet stringent pedestrian safety standards. Some companies like Renault and Peugeot/Citroën try to do some "flamboyant" styling for their new models, but the results have been mixed, to say the least.

 

[hexonxonx]

I hope this helps GM and Chrysler stay strong. I had heard on the news on the radio that this will help both be able to develop better engines and other things.

I just bought a new 2009 Cobalt. I already have a 2006 Cobalt SS/SC. I enjoy driving both of them very much. It seems like the build quality on the 2009 has improved quite a bit.

Long live GM.

 

[hexonxonx]

I do know that the Chevrolet Cruze is the model that will save GM--reasonably powerful (thanks to the turbocharged 1.4-liter engine!), and uses a new six-speed automatic to get the best fuel economy. By the time the Cruze arrives in the US market probably early calendar year 2010, we may also see a new even smaller model, the replacement for the Chevrolet Aveo that will be built on an all-new platform (which will be shared with the next-generation Opel/Vauxhall Corsa).

By the way, the next Camaro could be a surprisingly good seller, especially the "base" V-6 model that uses the same 300 bhp 3.5-liter V-6 found on the Cadillac CTS with either a six-speed manual or automatic transmission. GM says the new Camaro with the V-6 engine will be quite fast, but still get 19 mpg city/27 mpg highway (based on testing to EPA 2008 standards).

I don't know about how well the Camaro will sell. I read sometime ago that the base model will start at just below $30,000!?!? That's a bit high for this economy I am thinking. Hopefully, the Camaro doesn't carry over anything from the last model Camaro. I had a 1995 Camaro that was nothing but headaches to me and was in for repairs more than it was on the road.

 

[ErikCLDR]

The name brand is a huge factor in people buying cars.

Frankly, most people when they think of Cadillacs think of land yachts that people drive when they're 65+. If I was to go out and spend $50,000 on a car it certainly would not be a Cadillac. Pontiacs are dead too. Most people around here pick the camry and accord as the family sedan. A car could be great, but if people don't like the name brand or the styling, they're not going to buy it. Its as simple as that.

 

[quagmire]

The name brand is a huge factor in people buying cars.

Frankly, most people when they think of Cadillacs think of land yachts that people drive when they're 65+. If I was to go out and spend $50,000 on a car it certainly would not be a Cadillac. Pontiacs are dead too. Most people around here pick the camry and accord as the family sedan. A car could be great, but if people don't like the name brand or the styling, they're not going to buy it. Its as simple as that.

He speaks the truth sadly. It will be awhile before GM's and Ford's perception will turn around.

 

[Abstract]

At least people still look at GM cars. Chrysler's potential customers are long gone. I don't even know what they do anymore. Families only look at Toyota because of the "safety" factor. They have a family, they need something they feel they can depend on, and Toyota's image is exactly what parents really want from their car, as boring as that may be. Regardless of how GM and Ford (and Chrysler, I guess) do with car design, safety, etc, I don't expect them to be able to turn it around in the next 3 years.

On the other hand, Nissan turned it around before it was too late, but I don't think they were ever as desperate.

GM shouldn't consider this merger, not even out of desperation. Make friends with someone good, or don't make friends at all.

 

[DakotaGuy]

The only thing that makes sense about this merger is that they will be able to layoff thousands of people who have overlapping jobs. Ford wants to do everything they can to remain independent, but I am not sure they will have enough time or can downsize enough. It sounds like their share in Mazda might be sold soon to raise more cash. I can see a Ford-Nissan-Renault merger in the future if the GM-Chrysler merger goes through.

Well the US wanted to become nothing more then a service based economy so we will see where that leads us into the future.

 

[cantthinkofone]

Hell no, but if it does happen GM better just take what is valuable( Wrangler, Cummins, Viper) and sell off the rest.

I don't care for Chrysler. Unlike GM and Ford, their quality still sucks and from what I can tell, they will still suck in the future.

Viper? Really?

Cummins yes, but only if they bring back the 5.9 and dump POS 6.7.

 

[GSMiller]

I don't know about how well the Camaro will sell. I read sometime ago that the base model will start at just below $30,000!?!? That's a bit high for this economy I am thinking. Hopefully, the Camaro doesn't carry over anything from the last model Camaro. I had a 1995 Camaro that was nothing but headaches to me and was in for repairs more than it was on the road.

I believe the base will be somewhere between $20,000 and $25,000, just a tad more than the base Mustang, but the V6 Camaro will have way more power than the V6 Mustang.

 

[hexonxonx]

I believe the base will be somewhere between $20,000 and $25,000, just a tad more than the base Mustang, but the V6 Camaro will have way more power than the V6 Mustang.

So there will be two differant engines again, a V6 and a V8?

 

[quagmire]

So there will be two differant engines again, a V6 and a V8?

The base will use GM's "High Feature" 3.6 Direct Injected DOHC V6 making 300 HP. The SS will use two V8's. One is the LS3 V8 found in the 'Vette mated to a stick making 420 HP I believe the press release said. The other one is a 6.2 V8 with AFM and is mated to a 6 speed auto making 400 HP.

 

[voxnj]

So if they merge the companies, why no the products. We could merge Corvettes and Hummers into Humvettes.

 

[ErikCLDR]

So if they merge the companies, why no the products. We could merge Corvettes and Hummers into Humvettes.

Uhh Chevy and Hummer are both owned by GM already.

You'll probably see the Chrysler 300 look like an impala, a durango a tahoe, the pickups will also look like GM's, a grand cherokee will be an Acadia, etc, etc, etc.

 

[cantthinkofone]

By "help GM out" I assumed you meant it helps them from a financial perspective, which IMO, it does not.



I've never been in any of those 4 cars so I can't compare them on anything but price. But if I'm buying a new car, the very first thing I'm going to look at is price. I'll see that the Malibu is considerably more than its competition and cross it off my list.



What's the Cobalt's competition? Because it's starting price is more than that of the Rabbit, Civic, Mazda 3, Sentra, Elantra and Corolla


I don't like it. Interior doesn't look too terrible, but the exterior is bland IMO

I had a chance to get a up close look of one yesterday. Looks a lot better in person if you ask me. Very nice car. Would be happy to own one.

And the price tag isn't half bad either.

 

[andiwm2003]

The base will use GM's "High Feature" 3.6 Direct Injected DOHC V6 making 300 HP. The SS will use two V8's. One is the LS3 V8 found in the 'Vette mated to a stick making 420 HP I believe the press release said. The other one is a 6.2 V8 with AFM and is mated to a 6 speed auto making 400 HP.

unless they come out with smaller cars and a 1.8l 4 cylinder engine that makes 35mpg they are both history.

those 5L and 6L V6 and V8 engines are total crap. too powerful, too heavy, too large.

yes they may sell a few thousand of those but the car company depends on selling 5 million cars of one type per year. and that will be small cars like a toyota corolla for the next decade or so. GM's entire line is wrong. too large, too heavy, too powerful, too bulky, no utitliy. chrysler isn't much better and mercedes couldn't turn them around so why should GM be able to.

my prediction is they loose 50% marketshare, 70% stockprice, 70% employees and then they get bought by something like nissan or kia.

 

[quagmire]

unless they come out with smaller cars and a 1.8l 4 cylinder engine that makes 35mpg they are both history.

those 5L and 6L V6 and V8 engines are total crap. too powerful, too heavy, too large.

yes they may sell a few thousand of those but the car company depends on selling 5 million cars of one type per year. and that will be small cars like a toyota corolla for the next decade or so. GM's entire line is wrong. too large, too heavy, too powerful, too bulky, no utitliy. chrysler isn't much better and mercedes couldn't turn them around so why should GM be able to.

my prediction is they loose 50% marketshare, 70% stockprice, 70% employees and then they get bought by something like nissan or kia.

I agree with you to a sense that GM needs to downsize their vehicles( mainly just bring over their European cars as they already do exist), the V8, sports car, etc won't die. Their will always be a spot for vehicles like the Camaro, Corvette, etc in peoples hearts. To simply say kill them is forcing your beliefs on to other people. I hate people who say SUV's should die. How about the people who actually needs them? Now it was a blunder for the Big 3 to focus their line up on SUV's and trucks, but even when GM, Ford,and Chrysler downsizes, trucks and SUV's will still be around. Just thankfully the only buyers will be the ones that need their capability.

 

[aloofman]

Impressive, only thing you have to say against the Malibu is that it is more expensive then the competition. But, in what way are those products significantly better then the Malibu besides price?

All of those vehicles have better name recognition and resale value than the Malibu does. If it costs more the day you buy it and is worth less the next day than the competition, then that's a big problem. The Malibu has gotten pretty good reviews, but it will take a while to build the name up to what Camry and Accord have going for them now. It's completely possible that the new Malibu is just as good, but when someone is paying many thousands of dollars for a car, they have to consider reputation and resale too.

I agree with you to a sense that GM needs to downsize their vehicles( mainly just bring over their European cars as they already do exist), the V8, sports car, etc won't die. Their will always be a spot for vehicles like the Camaro, Corvette, etc in peoples hearts. To simply say kill them is forcing your beliefs on to other people. I hate people who say SUV's should die. How about the people who actually needs them? Now it was a blunder for the Big 3 to focus their line up on SUV's and trucks, but even when GM, Ford,and Chrysler downsizes, trucks and SUV's will still be around. Just thankfully the only buyers will be the ones that need their capability.

Or who can afford the gasoline they suck up.

The main thing to remember here is that SUVs and big trucks haven't gone out of style because someone "forced their beliefs on other people." Their mileage is too low, pure and simple. The free market determined which vehicles people wanted, not the government or environmentalists. In fact, the Big Three have been begging the government to help them keep the big truck gravy train going as long as possible instead of focusing on competing with foreign automakers's small cars. And now they're paying the price.

I think you're right that there will still be a place for V8 sports cars, but they'll go the way of the Corvette: a niche automobile that's very well-made and a good bargain for what it does, but doesn't sell well enough for the automaker to earn strong profits on.

 

[quagmire]

All of those vehicles have better name recognition and resale value than the Malibu does. If it costs more the day you buy it and is worth less the next day than the competition, then that's a big problem. The Malibu has gotten pretty good reviews, but it will take a while to build the name up to what Camry and Accord have going for them now. It's completely possible that the new Malibu is just as good, but when someone is paying many thousands of dollars for a car, they have to consider reputation and resale too.

That is true. Like I said in an earlier post, it will be awhile before GM's perception turns around.

Or who can afford the gasoline they suck up.

The main thing to remember here is that SUVs and big trucks haven't gone out of style because someone "forced their beliefs on other people." Their mileage is too low, pure and simple. The free market determined which vehicles people wanted, not the government or environmentalists. In fact, the Big Three have been begging the government to help them keep the big truck gravy train going as long as possible instead of focusing on competing with foreign automakers's small cars. And now they're paying the price.

I think you're right that there will still be a place for V8 sports cars, but they'll go the way of the Corvette: a niche automobile that's very well-made and a good bargain for what it does, but doesn't sell well enough for the automaker to earn strong profits on.

Also true, but I was just referencing the people with those beliefs. For example, people say Hummers should die. People who want to go off roading will look at vehicles like the H3( agreeing that the H2 sucks), Wrangler, etc. Buy the vehicles that suits your needs and that is it. If a H3 is overkill for you, don't buy one. But, don't go and say Hummers are an abomination as people out there might actually need a vehicle like the H3 to go off roading.

 

[SactoGuy18]

I agree with you to a sense that GM needs to downsize their vehicles( mainly just bring over their European cars as they already do exist), the V8, sports car, etc won't die.

I've read that the Chevrolet Cruze uses the same platform that will eventually become the next-generation Opel/Vauxhall Astra. I do like the Cruze though--if GM can make the Cruze get 40 miles per US gallon fuel economy (based on the pretty stringent EPA 2008 test) with the 1.4-liter I-4 turbocharged engine and the six-speed automatic, they have a potentially huge winner right there.

 

[Bakey]

I've read that the Chevrolet Cruze uses the same platform that will eventually become the next-generation Opel/Vauxhall Astra. I do like the Cruze though--if GM can make the Cruze get 40 miles per US gallon fuel economy (based on the pretty stringent EPA 2008 test) with the 1.4-liter I-4 turbocharged engine and the six-speed automatic, they have a potentially huge winner right there.

Actually the Cruze looks suspiciously like the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra replacement the Insignia take a look at this article from Auto Express and you can clearly see the origins of the Cruze.

Whereas the new Opel/Vauxhall Astra can be seen here - this will no doubt become the Saturn Astra once it's released over here in 2010.

Actually it's probably unfair of me to post the previous link as it's referring to the Astra VXR which is a might of a beast to say the least!

Anyway, sorry to digress - I do recall reading a number of years ago about the possibility of Toyota buying GM... But it never happened - maybe this time it will. Let's face it, you couldn't go far wrong with a shake up from someone like Toyota who may just well turn things around.

 

[aloofman]

I do recall reading a number of years ago about the possibility of Toyota buying GM... But it never happened - maybe this time it will. Let's face it, you couldn't go far wrong with a shake up from someone like Toyota who may just well turn things around.

While GM's investors might like it, I don't see any upside for Toyota at all. GM is saddled with tens of billions in unfunded pension liabilities and struggles to pay for workers' health benefits. Toyota doesn't have either of these problems and wouldn't want to have them.

For decades, Toyota's long-term game plan has been to gradually increase market share and run a lean operation. A fading GM helps them do that. The only piece of GM I could imagine Toyota buying might be their Opel nameplate in Europe, but since it's probably GM's best-performing division, that makes no sense for GM.

 

[ryannel2003]

The name brand is a huge factor in people buying cars.

Frankly, most people when they think of Cadillacs think of land yachts that people drive when they're 65+. If I was to go out and spend $50,000 on a car it certainly would not be a Cadillac. Pontiacs are dead too. Most people around here pick the camry and accord as the family sedan. A car could be great, but if people don't like the name brand or the styling, they're not going to buy it. Its as simple as that.

Unfortunately while this is true, the new Cadillac's are not land yachts. Even the DTS doesn't handle like a yacht. The underpinnings are from the old Deville and Seville STS, a car which while not handling a BMW, is far from a yacht. The Cadillac brand is doing extremely well and the products are well made and great driving vehicles. Unfortunately when you're so jaded by foreign makes, I guess it's hard to see anything else being acceptable.

 

[ryannel2003]

I don't know about how well the Camaro will sell. I read sometime ago that the base model will start at just below $30,000!?!? That's a bit high for this economy I am thinking. Hopefully, the Camaro doesn't carry over anything from the last model Camaro. I had a 1995 Camaro that was nothing but headaches to me and was in for repairs more than it was on the road.

Pricing for the Camaro starts at $22,995 for the base V6 model, and $30,995 for the V8 model. While are both more expensive than a Mustang, both offer more power and a nicer looking design (IMO).

 

[andiwm2003]

I agree with you to a sense that GM needs to downsize their vehicles( mainly just bring over their European cars as they already do exist), the V8, sports car, etc won't die. Their will always be a spot for vehicles like the Camaro, Corvette, etc in peoples hearts. To simply say kill them is forcing your beliefs on to other people. I hate people who say SUV's should die. How about the people who actually needs them? Now it was a blunder for the Big 3 to focus their line up on SUV's and trucks, but even when GM, Ford,and Chrysler downsizes, trucks and SUV's will still be around. Just thankfully the only buyers will be the ones that need their capability.

i agree with you. thats why i said they will always sell a few thousands of them. and that is ok. it's fun for the owners and good advertizing for the companies. however the mass market make the company. and that mass market will be smaller cars that are more efficient and more useful.

i just don't understand why managers with millions in salary can't understand that. bunch of IQ challenged egomaniacs.