Going Blu-ray rant

[spacepower7]

This is why my PS3 gets more use as a Bluray player than a games console.

dont get me wrong, i have 3+ TB of movies that i stream to my apple TV, for but films i really like, and want to watch in quality, the BluRays 1080p makes apples 1080p look blocky and colourless in comparison .

Just because your download is outputting at 1080p resolution, doesn't mean its the same quality as the 1080p from the bluray, Compression takes a lot of quality out of the download, id rather have a 10Gb movie on a bluray and keep the quality, both visually and audibly, than a crippled over-compressed download or stream at two or three GB.

It's funny how tech nerds on Mac forums ( I am one ) are more critical about BluRay than most people in Hollywood.

I polled my "Hollywood friends" who are "in the scene". 2 own PS3's with the intention of using as a BluRay play but have never bought or used a BluRay disc.
3rd has a dedicated BluRay play but never bought a disc.

I think it's a quality VS convience issue.

All 3 have AppleTVs and its their most used source, mainly Netflix.

Videophiles are the new audiophiles.

If the story, cinematography, and acting is good, people will ignore drawbacks like they ignored super16mm being blown up to 35mm.

I remember seeing Lars Von Triers "Celebration", PAL 720x576 miniDV blown up to 35mm in a theater in the 1990s. I was immersed in the story and didn't care about the resolution.

I'm not saying that the full quality BluRay isn't great, but I think the industry is changing to a good enough/convience model. Most people are fine with that, like they are fine with 256aac and 256mp3 music.

 

[linds15]

I'm not saying that the full quality BluRay isn't great, but I think the industry is changing to a good enough/convience model. Most people are fine with that, like they are fine with 256aac and 256mp3 music.

agree with this, with an average tv and no surround sound, its a huge convenience factor. when i lived with my dad he had a mini home theatre setup, with a system like that we would use blu rays for the action movies, or really great ones. if i had such a system id still go BR for that stuff, but generally compressed is good enough on a standard tv

 

[blanka]

Even better: BR on the Mac. Thanks to lack for true good software on the Mac, you only see the movie. Hooray! No stinking trailers! No menu's! Pop in the BR disc, and the movie plays.

 

[mslide]

I'm not saying that the full quality BluRay isn't great, but I think the industry is changing to a good enough/convience model. Most people are fine with that, like they are fine with 256aac and 256mp3 music.

Absolutely. I used to be a huge home theater nerd and still somewhat am. My theater has a 120" screen, blu-ray player, HTPC with most of my movies on it and an Apple TV. The Apple TV is by far used the most. The only time these days I bother with Blu-Ray is when I want to watch one of the few movies that I can watch over and over.

Plus, the average consumer can hardly tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray let alone Apple 1080p and Blu-Ray.

 

[blanka]

Plus, the average consumer can hardly tell the difference between DVD and Blu-Ray let alone Apple 1080p and Blu-Ray.

But they can tell the differnce between a nice 24p running blu-ray and a horrible juddering Apple TV 60 fps conversion.
It is not the resolution that matters, but the fact that BR is the first disc to run the movie just the way it is recorded and detaches it from all crap PAL/NTSC frequencies.

 

[bartzilla]

No offenses but the technology works just fine. It's apparently you that is having the issue. My entire house is based around AppleTVs streaming from an iTunes-running Mac, and I don't have a single issue. Instead of blaming Apple, perhaps a diligent exploration of your own system is warranted.

You're essentially implying that because you haven't had a problem, everything's fine and the OP can't possibly be having a problem, unless they're doing something wrong. That's unfair - it's possible for a product to have a fault that only shows up under certain circumstances/combinations.

For example, the college I work for purchased a few ATVs for use in classroom, and despite the manual saying it should work with our type of wireless config and despite 2 seperate teams of experienced, knowledgeable, personal owners of ATVs, IT people having a go at configuring the profiles they simply won't connect. Other iOS devices, e.g. ipads and iphones using the same details connect just fine. That's a product fault right there.

 

[StinDaWg]

I don't find that to be true. BD is best.

Do you know what torrents are?

 

[chambord]

You're essentially implying that because you haven't had a problem, everything's fine and the OP can't possibly be having a problem, unless they're doing something wrong. That's unfair - it's possible for a product to have a fault that only shows up under certain circumstances/combinations.

For example, the college I work for purchased a few ATVs for use in classroom, and despite the manual saying it should work with our type of wireless config and despite 2 seperate teams of experienced, knowledgeable, personal owners of ATVs, IT people having a go at configuring the profiles they simply won't connect. Other iOS devices, e.g. ipads and iphones using the same details connect just fine. That's a product fault right there.

Sure it's possible. But given the poor use of technological lexicon by the original poster, it's much more probable he simple is not using the hardware properly.

 

[ffmed124]

I agree with "nothing like a good rant" and can totally understand your frustration. I however do not own an ATV, not sure I will. I really don't see any advantages to it personally. I do own many apple products and they don't always "Just work". I have a Blue Ray player and love it. I truly don't think you get the quality in streaming for picture or sound. If I want to stream, my TV and Blue Ray player both offer tons of apps to do so which I have tried a few times. It's probably more of personal reasons as to which you prefer, just like there is nothing that can replace the feel of a good book over an I reader. Apple appears to be betting that everyone will love to stream, hence getting rid of their "Front Row" and CD/DVD slots on their computers. I think it should be the buyers or users choice. Sometimes having something physically rather then in the cloud "just works" best.

 

[littlepooch21]

yeah i was going to just stream from my cpu to my tv like i used to do in the past but it is just never streamlined at all. there always seems to be a hitch or a problem. my wife and i tried to cut back on our blu-ray buying over the last few yrs and just go to streaming but it seems like everytime i'm at work and she is trying to watch something she has problems. i think we are just going to go back to blu-ray's as it just works. we can just pop in the disc and off we go. the other day we tried to stream Titanic from our cpu to our tv(plex) and it kept losing connectiong. Last night I just popped in the disc and we were off and running.

 

[mic j]

It is the buyers choice. Apple gives you the choice to stream and/or buy a BR drive to connect to your Mac and use any of a number of players (Plex, VLC, etc). And a good external BR drive is only around $60-80, the software is free.

 

[bartzilla]

Sure it's possible. But given the poor use of technological lexicon by the original poster, it's much more probable he simple is not using the hardware properly.

Considering the post was positioned as a rant rather than a technical write up of an issue, I wasn't going to presume to judge based on that. I myself use very different language when ranting about why some server component isn't working to the team in my office than I do when writing a formal position paper weighing the issues experienced with said component against the financial and technical costs of replacing it.

 

[chambord]

Considering the post was positioned as a rant rather than a technical write up of an issue, I wasn't going to presume to judge based on that. I myself use very different language when ranting about why some server component isn't working to the team in my office than I do when writing a formal position paper weighing the issues experienced with said component against the financial and technical costs of replacing it.

The effort you're putting into defending a situation you know nothing about is rather ridiculous.

 

[bartzilla]

The effort you're putting into defending a situation you know nothing about is rather ridiculous.

By which you mean "I can't defend myself but rather than own up, I'm going to pile it on some more by deflecting".

Considering how much effort you spent jumping into the OP and then concocting some excuse in reply to me, you're clearly a hypocrite. We're done here.

 

[chambord]

By which you mean "I can't defend myself but rather than own up, I'm going to pile it on some more by deflecting".

Considering how much effort you spent jumping into the OP and then concocting some excuse in reply to me, you're clearly a hypocrite. We're done here.

You're absolutely correct. The OP's use of the phrase "change IP numbers" is clearly indicative of a technologically savvy individual who has mastered his hardware and is only limited due to some atypical hardware malfunction. Obviously this isn't someone who is being bested by a lack of knowledge and/or experience.

 

[phrehdd]

This is why my PS3 gets more use as a Bluray player than a games console.

dont get me wrong, i have 3+ TB of movies that i stream to my apple TV, for but films i really like, and want to watch in quality, the BluRays 1080p makes apples 1080p look blocky and colourless in comparison .

Just because your download is outputting at 1080p resolution, doesn't mean its the same quality as the 1080p from the bluray, Compression takes a lot of quality out of the download, id rather have a 10Gb movie on a bluray and keep the quality, both visually and audibly, than a crippled over-compressed download or stream at two or three GB.

A really good post on your part.

ATV does not provide true blu-ray goodness in either video or audio. However, for many it does provide enough quality that they are happy. I sit in that camp that prefers blu-ray level video and audio to match my TV and receiver/speaker system.

I think the ATV does an admirable job that can sit at DVD level or somewhere in between DVD and Blu Ray level.

The PS3 is a nice blu ray player in itself and can stream some types of file formats but is not all inclusive of archived blu ray to file media. PS3 wont play archived VC-1 based files at any level. Sony insists on "boycotting" or not being fully an all around player.

My blu ray player can play all the standard file formats I have on storage including the HD Audio. My TV can play various files directly too from storage but wont handle any HD variants of DTS.

So - ATV is fine for moderate to lower end playback.
PS3 for direct disc and also some forms of media file playback
Newer TVs can handle most standard files (those with Ethernet) but not all HD Audio

and

Some better Blu Ray players can handle discs, SACD, media streaming of typical files (AVI, M2TS, MKV etc. with HD audio).

As for Internet items - depending on what you get you can add Netflix, Amazon rentals, Hulu, Vudu, Pandora etc.

 

[mic j]

Ya know...some people prefer vinyl, some cd's some mp3's. Some prefer tube amplifiers and liquid cooled cables, solid state amps from BB, some iPods.

There really is no "right" answer. What ever you enjoy at the price a price you are comfortable spending.

I don't think video is any different than audio in that respect.

For many of us, this $99 device provides us with the quality/convenience we need. For others...it's garbage.

 

[iSayuSay]

I rented Zero Dark Thirty about a month ago without the slightest problem. I found it much easier than actually finding a "video store" that isn't shuttered or a copy in a RedBox machine.

If you want a fair fight, go ask anybody who owned one of those $500 Blu-ray Disc players a few years ago how perfectly awesome they weren't. They took FOREVER to load and had limited upgradability for firmware. Then over a couple of years the manufacturers got better and for the most part BDs work as well as DVDs. But my dad got one of those $500 BD players, and it was slow as molasses.

I honestly can't figure out what problem you had, but technology will have problems. My mom was complaining about their new printer not printing yesterday. I go over there and they had accidentally unplugged the wireless router -- her computer connects via WiFi. So yeah, stuff happens. That doesn't mean wireless printing is doomed.

Don't get me wrong, I love a good rant. You probably would've had tons more company during the first-generation Apple TV. That thing was buggy. The revision was such a huge improvement.

Well at least you don't have to depend on internet connection even if an expensive Bluray player loads discs forever.

You don't have to care if the video sized 40GB or 10GB and worrying whether you have enough bandwidth to stream your movie off the iTunes because it is just what it is.

Also if you invest in home audio and receiver with DTS HD:MA or Dolby TrueHD capability, BD gives you some materials to enjoy instead of relying on DD or core DTS.
Maybe if we're a typical Apple users who don't know what that jargon means and thinks Beats or Bose iPod dock is the best audio ever made on earth, it won't matter.

Plus many BD movies provide Digital Copy means you also get one copy off the iTunes Store, and not just a cheap limited rented, it's a purchased copy.
For typical $20 I could get less compressed BD copy, better audio track, gorgeous printed materials + Digital Copy while iTunes "1080p" costs $25 to purchase and you still have to stream/download it yourself.. WTF?

Unless every family on earth could get like 50Mbps or 100 Mbps internet connection for cheap, I find this streaming model hard to justify. More so when 4K Ultra HDTV is the future, 4K contents will make it to home system, and when the time comes, 50Mbps unlimited connection might be a bare minimum to stream such resolution.

 

[Porco]

Ya know...some people prefer vinyl, some cd's some mp3's. Some prefer tube amplifiers and liquid cooled cables, solid state amps from BB, some iPods.

There really is no "right" answer. What ever you enjoy at the price a price you are comfortable spending.

I don't think video is any different than audio in that respect.

For many of us, this $99 device provides us with the quality/convenience we need. For others...it's garbage.

Great post.

The difference between iTunes videos and Blu-ray discs is currently mostly about distribution and delivery. By which I mean you will probably end up sat watching a H.264 video (or sometimes MPEG2 or VC-1 on BD) on your screen. The Blu-ray will have a higher bit-rate. If you care about quality more than the convenience of downloading (which isn't always the case for everyone anyway) then Blu-ray makes sense. If you don't care so much but love the convenience of downloading (with an appropriate connection), then great, enjoy.

Sometime in the future, hopefully downloads will have the quality of current Blu-rays (or better), everyone will have fast connections, and it will be the best of both worlds.

 

[Michael CM1]

Great post.

The difference between iTunes videos and Blu-ray discs is currently mostly about distribution and delivery. By which I mean you will probably end up sat watching a H.264 video (or sometimes MPEG2 or VLC-1 on BD) on your screen. The Blu-ray will have a higher bit-rate. If you care about quality more than the convenience of downloading (which isn't always the case for everyone anyway) then Blu-ray makes sense. If you don't care so much but love the convenience of downloading (with an appropriate connection), then great, enjoy.

Sometime in the future, hopefully downloads will have the quality of current Blu-rays (or better), everyone will have fast connections, and it will be the best of both worlds.

The convergence would be nice. Or at least if we had the flexibility of CDs and rips. You buy a CD and it's beyond easy to rip the music to your computer. With DVDs and BDs, it's a little harder and is requires more hardware or software. But it's doable. But at what quality? I don't remember if I mentioned it in this thread, but I couldn't keep going with the quality of the ATV3 preset on HandBrake because of file size, so I reduced it a bit. Even then, it's still a pain to do all of this because you have to make the MKV and then encode, plus you have to tag stuff to your liking.

 

[Uofmtiger]

Ya know...some people prefer vinyl, some cd's some mp3's. Some prefer tube amplifiers and liquid cooled cables, solid state amps from BB, some iPods.

There really is no "right" answer. What ever you enjoy at the price a price you are comfortable spending.

I don't think video is any different than audio in that respect.

For many of us, this $99 device provides us with the quality/convenience we need. For others...it's garbage.

This is true and it is also true that people judge these technologies based on their own experience. If you heard a fisher price turntable with a broken record, you could say vinyl is overrated. If you heard a CD that clipped on every note via a CD player that also skipped, you would think the tech was overrated, etc...

The issue here seems to be a problem with the internet connection or a broken AppleTV. I have two of them that work fine. I have coworkers that have them and they work fine. He is essentially playing a broken record or has a broken machine.

As far as blu-ray looking and sounding better, I agree. It just isn't nearly as convenient.

 

[takeshi74]

You know, when this sort of c...p is promoted by Apple one has to wonder what they are doing. "Just works"...? No, it doesn't just work at all.

I am going down to the video store now and get me the Blu-ray version of Zero. Then, tonight I will watch it and drink, since I don't have a clear mind to play Space Engineer Sam in order to manipulate devices all night. It just works.

I have multiple streaming solutions, both Apple and non-Apple that all just work. That said, do whatever works for you.

 

[Alith]

No, the ATV is fine, the connections are fine. It is great for my photos and iTunes, just not for playing a rented movie streaming from the computer. Look on line. There are vast numbers of complaints about this. Some say you just have to have a really fast connection and download straight to the ATV, but others complain about that as well.

I've had three so far and no issues like this before. You don't have to fanny around with your computer, just navigate to the movies section in AppleTV and rent directly, it streams 1080p, Dolby Digital content instantly if you have fast enough broadband.

We have 3D Blu-Ray too but apart from one or two films we got for the lulz and Game of Thrones boxed sets we've barely used it. AppleTV has been ridiculously convenient.

P.S. If your Netflix can't connect and you can't stream things from the iTunes store then it sounds like your AppleTV can only access your local network and not the internet? Sounds like your issues are with your router, possibly blocking outbound traffic from the ATV.

 

[spacepower7]

But they can tell the differnce between a nice 24p running blu-ray and a horrible juddering Apple TV 60 fps conversion.
It is not the resolution that matters, but the fact that BR is the first disc to run the movie just the way it is recorded and detaches it from all crap PAL/NTSC frequencies.

What Blu-ray is truly 24p? How many HDTVs can play that? Not most of the consumer ones.

 

[StinDaWg]

What Blu-ray is truly 24p? How many HDTVs can play that? Not most of the consumer ones.

Pretty much every movie/non reality tv show is filmed in 24p (23.976). Most mid to high end tvs can take the 24p signal and play it at 96hz for a smoother picture. The entry level Panasonic and Samsung plasmas can do it as well.