Going Old School - Mac Classic Help Wanted

[donlphi]

Okay, 1990 wasn't that far back (at least I tell myself that every day).

These always start out the same way...

So I purchased a Macintosh Classic (September 1990) hoping to find a way to get it online and maybe even show my son when he is old enough to understand computers. I don't know... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Anyway, like most e-bay computer purchases, it doesn't work 100%. I'm not really sure what % it does work, but I thought I would post it and see if anybody has any suggestions other than turning it into a fish tank.

Computer powers on
Happy Mac Appears
Welcome to Macintosh screen shows
BOOM!!! Sorry, a system error occurred.
error type 41
To temporarily turn off extensions, restart and hold down the shift key.

So... click restart... hold shift
I get Happy Mac
Welcome to Macintosh Extensions OFF screen shows
BOOM!!! Sorry, a system error occurred.
error type 41
To temporarily turn off extensions, restart and hold down the shift key.

and the vicious cycle begins

Unfortunately, the first computer I purchased after college was a 266mhz PowerMac Desktop, so I'm not really sure where to begin with this one.

If anybody can point me in the direction of some already documented online help, that would be great. I don't mind sifting through webpages to find answers. I just have had any luck with my searches so far.

Thanks!

 

[Nermal]

The first thing I'd do is try a boot disk. I think a Classic can run 7.0.1, which you can find here.

 

[motulist]

Try to get your hands on a startup floppy disk and try to boot from it. You can (legally) find old startup disk images online, but then you'll have to get your hands on a working mac with a working floppy drive and a working floppy disk in order to actually create the real startup floppy disk.

 

[donlphi]

Thanks!

So... any thoughts on the best way to get those from my current laptop to a format the classic will recognize? I saw the comment about getting another computer that already functions, but I don't know if my wife would appreciate it (because she appreciated me getting this one to begin with).

I'm assuming simply plugging in a USB 3.5" floppy drive. Insert a disk. Opening Disk Utility and save the image on there will not just work.

I might just go to a computer recycling place and see if they have any copies of System 7 laying around. Or just keep my eyes open on e-bay.

edit: Just looked on e-bay. A guy in Canada trying to sell the 7.5.3 install FLoppies for $20 (American)
I made an offer of $10, but was turned down.

 

[motulist]

I'm assuming simply plugging in a USB 3.5" floppy drive. Insert a disk. Opening Disk Utility and save the image on there will not just work.

Actually, that'll work perfectly.

 

[donlphi]

Actually, that'll work perfectly.

Well... I went with my gut on doing this. I acquired a IMATION SUPER DISK at the Computer Recycler ($5) and found some floppy disks.

Inserted the floppy (OS X recognizes it no problem)
Opened DISK UTILITY
Clicked Restore Tab
Set Source as Install 1.image
Set Destination 3.5" floppy
Click restore
Could not validate source - error - 123

Then I tried mounting the Install 1.image
clicked on the image and made a new image, which created Install 1.dmg
Set Source as Install 1.dmg
Set Destination 3.5" floppy
click restore
Could not validate source - error - 123

Then I tried to scan the Install 1.dmg and Install 1.image for restore
Unable to scan "Install 1.dmg" (error - 123)
Tried again with the Install 1.image

Next I tried to copy the files over to the floppy and see if the Macintosh Classic would recognize it. It did not... so... any other suggestions?

Thanks!

Obviously I will keep searching myself, but any suggestions are welcome.

 

[HBOC]

here is a website http://lowendmac.com/macos.shtml

 

[motulist]

Could not validate source - error - 123

Try using a different floppy disk, preferably one as newly made as possible and from a different manufacturer. If the floppy disk has too many bad blocks on it then disk utility won't be able to fully copy the entire contents of the startup image. Floppies are VERY old technology now, so it's gonna take a bit of mix and match voodoo to get it to all be fully working and compatible.

Also, if it's saying that it could not validate the SOURCE, then the downloaded image you're using may be faulty. Also, even with the validation error, you should still try using it to boot and see what happens.

 

[donlphi]

Try using a different floppy disk, preferably one as newly made as possible and from a different manufacturer. If the floppy disk has too many bad blocks on it then disk utility won't be able to fully copy the entire contents of the startup image. Floppies are VERY old technology now, so it's gonna take a bit of mix and match voodoo to get it to all be fully working and compatible.

Also, if it's saying that it could not validate the SOURCE, then the downloaded image you're using may be faulty. Also, even with the validation error, you should still try using it to boot and see what happens.

Okay... I've made some great progress since my last post.

I was able to use Terminal to create the disk images. Since I'm not an expert on terminal, I changed the installation image names because the space between Install 1.img was saying the file wasn't found. Rather than realizing I just needed a \ I changed the names.

So I tried installing and it said the Installer file was not usable... as if it knew it wasn't an original.

Then I went back and did a custom install. It got me through disk 1, disk 2, and then I stuck the "Tidbits" disk in, and it died. So I am going through everything and redoing the floppy disks with the original names and see how it goes.

It could be a corrupted version of the OS Installer too. I may try another source.

I will also dig around the junk closet and see if I can find some older disks and try them. Thanks again for your support on this.

 

[donlphi]

Up and Running

sort of...

Well... on a whim... I tried to install another version of OS 7 and it said it wasn't a Macintosh Disk and wanted to know if I wanted to format it. I said no, and instead of the big bomb, it just said "Rebuilding Desktop"

Nothing on there... but it's a step in the right direction. I can now start installing updates.

I appreciate all of your help. We can call this one "solved"

If anybody is ever looking to create a OS 7 (or earlier) boot disk, go to this page. Paul Brierley is a genius.

I'm off to figure out a way to get online through my ethernet connection.

 

[tuokaerhp]

donlphi,

If you have just a Mac Classic, not a Mac Classic II, you can boot into System 6.0.x that's built-in on the ROM chips (no joke).

Step 1: Turn the power switch on and wait to hear the startup chime.

Step 2: When you hear the chime, immediately hold down the following keys: Apple, Option, letter X, letter O.

You should see the "Welcome to Macintosh" greeting and it will definitely boot fast.

Don't hold down those keys too long. Just until you see the greeting. If you do, it'll ask you if you want to rebuild the desktop (Apple and Option keys pressed down invoke this). If you choose to rebuild, it will cause the Mac to crash and you'll have to start over again.

From here, you can make a boot floppy disk using the System 6 boot data, by copying the "System Folder" to the floppy and then "blessing" it (opening and closing the folder). You'll find the "System Folder" inside the disk the ROM conveniently displays on the desktop for you.

This will be helpful until you can get Disk First Aid, SC Drive Setup and Disk Copy 4.2 on that Mac Classic.

NOTE: These steps only work for the Mac Classic, not the Mac Classic II or any other model Macintosh. The Mac Classic is the only model that included System 6 System Folder stored inside the ROM chip(s).

73s de tuokaerhp.

 

[Nermal]

donlphi,

If you have just a Mac Classic, not a Mac Classic II, you can boot into System 6.0.x that's built-in on the ROM chips (no joke).

I *completely* forgot about that!

 

[donlphi]

donlphi,

If you have just a Mac Classic, not a Mac Classic II, you can boot into System 6.0.x that's built-in on the ROM chips (no joke).

Step 1: Turn the power switch on and wait to hear the startup chime.

Step 2: When you hear the chime, immediately hold down the following keys: Apple, Option, letter X, letter O.

Well... I got this message a bit after I just finished installing System 7.0.1

The new challenge is figuring out how I am going to get software for this thing and then finally get it online.

When I installed 7.0.1 I was able to create the boot disk using Snow Leopard (in Terminal).

Now I have been downloading utilities and other software that I hoped to dump on a floppy and then open in on this mac. Unfortunately when I place the OS X disk into the Classic Mac, it won't recognize it. When I format a floppy in System 7 and mount it on my Snow Leopard laptop, it gives me the option to ignore or initialize. So... I'm stuck.

I see a lot of stuff available online, but I'm not seeing how I can get it to my Mac Classic.

 

[motulist]

Well... I got this message a bit after I just finished installing System 7.0.1

The new challenge is figuring out how I am going to get software for this thing and then finally get it online.

When I installed 7.0.1 I was able to create the boot disk using Snow Leopard (in Terminal).

Now I have been downloading utilities and other software that I hoped to dump on a floppy and then open in on this mac. Unfortunately when I place the OS X disk into the Classic Mac, it won't recognize it. When I format a floppy in System 7 and mount it on my Snow Leopard laptop, it gives me the option to ignore or initialize. So... I'm stuck.

I see a lot of stuff available online, but I'm not seeing how I can get it to my Mac Classic.

try using OS X's disk utility to format the floppy as hfs (not plus). Also, you should theoretically be able to setup an ethernet network between the two, but networking in the classic mac os was a nightmare (to me anyway).

Listen, if all else fails and you really can't get it to work, I have an old powermac 8500 running classic OS 9. If you send me a box of floppies and a self addressed pre-paid shipping box then I can format the floppies for you and put the internet files you want on to them. Then you can get the old mac online and download whatever else you need.

 

[madog]

http://www.macintoshgarden.org/

abandonware (legal old stuff) apps and games for old Mac OS's.

There's even a file "Apple Legacy Software Recovery CD":

Bootable CD-ROM image includes installers for every Mac OS from System 1.0 through Mac OS 8.1, all A/UX, Apple II, Lisa and Newton system software, utilities and drivers released by Apple.

The CD boots into Mac OS 7.6.1 which should work fine for most 68k Macs and early Power Macs. I have booted it successfully on actual classic Mac hardware as well as in emulators

Otherwise, most of the major systems below 8.x are included on the site by themselves.

They've made some changes recently, so you gotta be logged in to download.

 

[brendu]

thats an awsome project your working on, i have an old Macintosh Plus i would love to give a purpose to but i am just wondering, will that machine even be able to load memory intensive web pages? and i believe the classic had a color screen, is this true? the last time i saw one of those was in elementary school, and i remember being so jealous of its screen over my mac plus b&w screen.

 

[McGiord]

Try using some of the emulators to create your diskettes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SheepShaver

 

[motulist]

i have an old Macintosh Plus i would love to give a purpose to but i am just wondering, will that machine even be able to load memory intensive web pages?

Almost definitely not. I'd guess that the best you can hope for with a mac plus surfing the web is text only web surfing, and maybe possibly gif and jpg image displaying (but doubtful). And even if you could get text and still images on web pages, it would still be a very unpleasant surfing experience with most pages rendering totally incorrectly. If you want to do it as a project just for fun to see if you can do it, then by all means go for it. But since you said you're looking to give the machine "a purpose" then it sounds like you're looking for more than it can do.

Look at some of the links towards the middle of this page and you'll get some ideas of what your old Plus can still be used for.

http://lowendmac.com/compact/macintosh-plus.html

 

[McGiord]

there was some project out there in the web to put a MacMini inside a MacPlus or Classic, it looked pretty cool, if someone has the link please post.

 

[donlphi]

http://www.macintoshgarden.org/

abandonware (legal old stuff) apps and games for old Mac OS's.

There's even a file "Apple Legacy Software Recovery CD":

Otherwise, most of the major systems below 8.x are included on the site by themselves.

They've made some changes recently, so you gotta be logged in to download.

That's awesome! I'm still having some issues making all of this work,but that is an amazing resource.

I appreciate the link!

 

[Consultant]

Are you kidding me? iMac G3 can be had for under $25, and often times for free locally on CL.

Getting something that old is just asking for trouble in wasted time.

FYI, even the first generation iPhone has over 50 times the processing power.

 

[donlphi]

Are you kidding me? iMac G3 can be had for under $25, and often times for free locally on CL.

Getting something that old is just asking for trouble in wasted time.

FYI, even the first generation iPhone has over 50 times the processing power.

Is who kidding you?

The idea isn't to just buy a computer and plug it in. It's about trying to put old technology in with the new.

However, it is becoming quite the waste of time. I can't get the classic to recognize the 7.5 disks, and I think it's because I burned them using Snow Leopard. I'm going to fish around the school a bit and see if they have any old G3 or slightly older PowerMacs. THAT'S what I need to get this stuff up and running. I wish the movers hadn't destroyed mine in the move.