Goldman Sachs Issued $10 Billion in Credit Lines for Apple Card

[gavroche]

I’ve not personally verified this - however, I’ve read that if you first transfer cash to your apple cash card and then use Apple Cash to pay your Apple Card balance - that then your balance is instantly usable. Otherwise, it’s like an e-check and the funds have to clear first.

I heard that as well, and might try it out. But seems unneccary to have to do that. I've never had a credit card in my entire life take ten days (and I'm 47, have had a lot). Even an e-check takes far less time than this. My payments post to my account after just one or two business days. Bank of America. And I talked to them, and they say the extra 8-9 days that it takes to become available is completely unnecessary. Bank of America has already long since paid them. And its the same bank account that's been connected to my Apple ID for many years.

 

[Christian 5G]

Never used Apple Pay as often as after receiving the Apple Card.

it really does make things so much easier, instead of carrying wallet to quick stops

 

[31 Flavas]

What is better than 2% cash back at all ApplePay locations and no foreign fees? I said better, not the same.

If you travel, such that you need that “no foreign transaction fee” bonus then you’re probably better off with an airline travel card. You won't get “2% cash back” but you’ll get at least one free bag, per flight, and early boarding. Those free bags add up to substantial savings quick. In addition to points towards upgrades / travel. That said, you can get 2% back without needing Apple Pay from Citi Double Cash.

If you don't travel, but make foreign money transactions with business that support ApplePay - then yea, Apple Card.

Amazon has many non discounted Apple Products.

While Amazon might not have a discount, as you say, you get 2% anywhere you can make an NFC payment or on any website or App that has integrated ApplePay for payment. Even if a particular merchant doesn't do NFC payment or ApplePay - your physical titanium Apple card will give 1% - so regardless, finding any discount on Apple hardware from any merchant, greater then 3% puts you ahead of the 3% back you get from a direct from Apple purchase.

 

[jonnyb098]

Agree with not buying things you could not buy with cash.

I view credit cards as a convenience. The CC means I don't have to carry cash, and the bank/Apple is loaning me money for a few weeks interest free. Every month I pay off my balance.

Very true except the credit card companies view people like you as a total leach and dead weight. Imagine the profit they will bring in from the many who will carry a balance at 14-24 percent interest.


Goldman Sachs is seeing nothing but 🤑

 

[BuddyTronic]

Interest rate doesn't matter if you pay it off monthly!

Seriously,

You are missing why there are credit cards. Do you think credit cards exist to give you free stuff? Do you think that is how they make billions every year?

No that's not how they make billions. They make billions by having people NOT pay within 30 days and then having to pay lots of fees, falling into a financial hole that can be hard to get out of.

It's like youre a mouse and you say - I do not understand what's wrong with that mouse trap over there, there's some juicy cheese that's really yummie, and I can just take it if I am quick enough! Isn't it great!

Yes it's great but that is not the intention behind the mouse trap. The mouse trap will kill mice. Maybe it won't be you as long as you stay fast and vigilant. But maybe it will, when something unforeseen happens. But whether or not it affects you personally right now you have to realize that the only reason for a mouse traps existence is to kill mice

And the only reason for a credit card's existence is to make money. Is it or isn't it? It is, yes. So for every one who is vigilant and paying within the grace period, there must be a few others who don't. Not sure what the exact number-to-profit is but you can bet they make a profit.

So think about it this way - you enjoy your privileges on the credit card, and you pay it back on time. But you are not getting this for free. This is paid for by people who are not as vigilant, who spend more than they should, who mess up, whatever - it is paid for by all those who make billions in profit for credit cards.

So you could say these are stupid people, and you are smart.

Sure - but if you're so smart, then also see you're directly taking money from stupid people.

See the big picture. We all are born to care for one another. And I am not saying refusing a credit card will make these people smarter about their finances. But I do want to shine a big light on what's going on.

So you know where the money is coming from, and who is paying for your free privileges.

Nothing is free. Everything comes with a price. I am not blaming you at all - it would be a stretch as you can clearly not yet see the entire cycle. No one's to blame. Just see clearly what is happening. Think about 5 steps ahead, rather than just 1.

You nailed it. But maybe went a bit too far in the explanation, but yes, of course it's a bit of a mousetrap.

 

[izzle22]

Very true except the credit card companies view people like you as a total leach and dead weight. Imagine the profit they will bring in from the many who will carry a balance at 14-24 percent interest.


Goldman Sachs is seeing nothing but 🤑

Nope. Not true. Credit card companies make money every time you swipe your card. The merchant pays a fee to the companies every time they accept a card. Would they like the interest too? Sure! A common misconception is that credit card companies only make money off of interest.

 

[827538]

Every time I see news about the “success” of the Apple Card I get a little bit sad.

I was, until just a few months ago, in quite a lot of debt. I worked damn hard to get myself out of it and it’s an amazing feeling to know I no longer owe any money to anybody. Everything I earn is my own now.

Of course, everybody is entitled to spend their own money however they choose and take on debts as they see fit but I do hope Apple via Goldman Sachs is lending responsibly.

I was stupid and I’m sure most people are more sensible than I was. I still don’t believe it’s healthy to normalise buying things with money you don’t yet have.

As for the perks of buying on a credit card, I do now have an Amex charge card. There’s no credit limit, no interest and some great benefits but the balance has to be paid in full every month. The best of both worlds for me.

Good for you.

My wife and I are completely debt averse, to the point where it was a problem. We actually went and bought a car with a four year loan simply to build up credit even although we wanted to buy the car outright (I'm an immigrant to the US so I literally had zero history and my wife had never owned a credit card or taken out a loan). I think it's absolutely insane in the US that a married couple with a net income of ~$300k a year is refused things like loans, phone plans or has costlier insurance because we don't have enough debt or history of debt. We like to save and pay for things outright then its us who are earning the interest rather than paying the interest.

There was a time we were flying and needed to rent a car (this was before we had our Amex) and even although we had plenty of money to pay for the rental they would not rent us even the cheapest of vehicles - it was a bit of an emergency for us to be somewhere - so we ended up paying $300 for an Uber. I kind of felt bad for the guy as when we got in and he asked us where we were going and we told him the destination he was like 'oh man' - I thought he knew before hand, anyway he really saved us that day. We got our Amex pretty quick after that.

Fully agree with the Amex, charge cards are the way to go as it encourages responsible credit use, helps build credit without the downsides, plus the perks and fraud protection are awesome.

The only debt we are happy taking out is a fixed rate mortgage.

I could go on and on about debt and how important it is to avoid it. I have a sister who is a nurse and her household income is maybe 1/10th of ours, yet she has a newer car and newer iPhone than either my wife or I do, buys these things on obscenely expensive contracts and leases and then complains about not being able to afford things. My view in life is if you can't afford to buy something outright then you can't afford to buy it - housing excluded but thats a whole different matter.

 

[BuddyTronic]

Good for you.

My wife and I are completely debt averse, to the point where it was a problem. We actually went and bought a car with a four year loan simply to build up credit even although we wanted to buy the car outright (I'm an immigrant to the US so I literally had zero history and my wife had never owned a credit card or taken out a loan). I think it's absolutely insane in the US that a married couple with a net income of ~$300k a year is refused things like loans, phone plans or has costlier insurance because we don't have enough debt or history of debt. We like to save and pay for things outright then its us who are earning the interest rather than paying the interest.

There was a time we were flying and needed to rent a car (this was before we had our Amex) and even although we had plenty of money to pay for the rental they would not rent us even the cheapest of vehicles - it was a bit of an emergency for us to be somewhere - so we ended up paying $300 for an Uber. I kind of felt bad for the guy as when we got in and he asked us where we were going and we told him the destination he was like 'oh man' - I thought he knew before hand, anyway he really saved us that day. We got our Amex pretty quick after that.

Fully agree with the Amex, charge cards are the way to go as it encourages responsible credit use, helps build credit without the downsides, plus the perks and fraud protection are awesome.

The only debt we are happy taking out is a fixed rate mortgage.

I could go on and on about debt and how important it is to avoid it. I have a sister who is a nurse and her household income is maybe 1/10th of ours, yet she has a newer car and newer iPhone than either my wife or I do, buys these things on obscenely expensive contracts and leases and then complains about not being able to afford things. My view in life is if you can't afford to buy something outright then you can't afford to buy it - housing excluded but thats a whole different matter.

Amex is no different than ANY other credit card when it comes right down to it.

Pay your credit card statement balance EVERY MONTH ON TIME - IN FULL.

You will NEVER pay interest. It doesn't matter if it is Amex or any other credit card.


These are things every teenager needs to be taught.

 

[konqerror]

don't want to get in an argument about this. you are correct, and what I've paid all these years in merchant fees is wrong... and that banks are in the credit card business to lose money.

You are wrong because you refuse to use common sense and listen to what I am saying.

The fee paid by merchants is split across multiple parties. The merchant's bank, the merchant's processor, VISA/MC, and the issuing bank.

Each party has costs and needs to make a profit.

The amount paid by merchants is therefore higher than what the issuing bank receives.

The portion going to the issuing bank is 1-2%. Almost always under 2%.

That list direct from Mastercard, shows that portion.

Keep giving wrong facts because you won't listen to reason.

About us

Learn what Mastercard does and what drives us. Discover our mission, values, and vision as we power economies, connect people, and lead with purpose in a digital world to build priceless possibilities.

www.mastercard.us

https://usa.visa.com/support/small-business/regulations-fees.html

 

[Marekul]

Nope. Not true. Credit card companies make money every time you swipe your card. The merchant pays a fee to the companies every time they accept a card. Would they like the interest too? Sure! A common misconception is that credit card companies only make money off of interest.

Exactly. And the glorified cash back is really paid by higher prices. You would have to believe merchants don't make the ~3% fees part of their price setting to assume this this is a win for you.
Yeah, short term you can make a few dollars, but long term and the more people pay with CC the more the merchant will calculate for transaction cost and add on the initial price.
It's really short sighted consumerism and the contrary of financially smart.

 

[halluxsinister]

Every time I see news about the “success” of the Apple Card I get a little bit sad.

I was, until just a few months ago, in quite a lot of debt. I worked damn hard to get myself out of it and it’s an amazing feeling to know I no longer owe any money to anybody. Everything I earn is my own now.

Of course, everybody is entitled to spend their own money however they choose and take on debts as they see fit but I do hope Apple via Goldman Sachs is lending responsibly.

I was stupid and I’m sure most people are more sensible than I was. I still don’t believe it’s healthy to normalise buying things with money you don’t yet have.

As for the perks of buying on a credit card, I do now have an Amex charge card. There’s no credit limit, no interest and some great benefits but the balance has to be paid in full every month. The best of both worlds for me.

Buying things with money you don’t yet have is the American Way. It’s what Superman was sworn to fight for, basically. That and truth and justice, but those seem to have gotten lost somewhere along the way. In any case, the PROPER use, I think you’ll agree, for a credit card is to use it for the convenience of buying things without having to use cash or write a check, and then when the bill comes, pay it off immediately; don’t let it turn into a loan that generates interest. I myself did something extremely similar to what you’ve done. I decided a while back to make a rule for myself, and it will sound like so much common sense to most adults, I think: don’t buy anything you can’t afford to pay for when the bill comes due. So if I don’t have the money in my checking or savings, or if I don’t know for a fact that I will have money by then, I don’t buy it. I have finally reached the financial Promised Land, just like you have, Saturnine. By this I mean that my credit card bills routinely end up being for those things that I need in any given month, and are paid off routinely. My average credit card balances range over a month between zero and a few hundred dollars, and bounce back and forth monthly between those numbers, as I have no debts apart from those. I had two motorized vehicles, and sold off the more expensive one, and kept the other, which I own free-and-clear. It feels spectacular to know I owe no one anything, apart from for recurring things—rent, food, utilities, phone and internet service, and insurance for my vehicle. That car loan finally getting paid off was like a weight lifted off my shoulders, and I have been socking away money ever since.

The thing I’d like to know, is this: Apart from being metallic for some stupid reason, and having a slick little Apple logo on it... what exactly can the APPLE CARD DO that any other Visa or MasterCard, or both, CANNOT?

ALSO... why on EARTH would I want to hop, financially, into bed with Gold Man Sacks? Weren’t they implicated in some gianormous scandal or something, recently? Wrecking the American economy, or facilitating drug dealing or insider trading or funding some ecological disaster or backing terrorists or something like that? Stealing peoples’ houses from them, or something? Crushing students under debt and refusing to let them breathe... Seems I remember something or other about them doing that. Maybe more than one. Corollary question: Should we look with favor on Apple for hopping into the Sack with Gold Man, so to speak?

In any case... I reiterate my question: what is it that one can ONLY do with an (ooh ahhh....) Apple Card that one cannot do with ANY OTHER card? Apart from say, “I have an Apple Card”. Because it strikes me as being entirely too similar to the “I Am Rich” app. Only Apple reaps the benefits, instead of the guy who made that.

 

[konqerror]

Buying things with money you don’t yet have is the American Way.

It's actually the European way.

Even Canadians have 1.7x more debt than Americans.

Household debt

Household debt is defined as all liabilities of households (including non-profit institutions serving households) that require payments of interest or principal by households to the creditors at a fixed dates in the future.

data.oecd.org

 

[mhornback2]

So.

Though I am no fan of the Citizen One minimalist web design, I appreciate two things. One, the loan isn’t reported to credit agencies. I think that is fair since the upgrade program is more like a lease or subscription. Also when you get a phone through Verizon or others, it’s not considered a loan either (not reported).

What would happen if the upgrade program moved to the Apple Card? Would it still not be reported to credit agencies?

The second thing? I pay my credit card bill off every month and thus pay no interest. What would happen with a phone on the card? With other companies, if you get a zero percent rate on purchases, loan balances, etc., you immediately begin paying interest on other purchases (no grace period). So how would Apple approach new purchases? Will there still be a grace period? What’s nice now about Citizen One is that it’s not connected to a card, so interest fees are never a problem.

 

[konqerror]

I appreciate two things. One, the loan isn’t reported to credit agencies. I think that is fair since the upgrade program is more like a lease or subscription.

Actually that's bad, because they do a hard pull on your credit. Then if you are delinquent, they send it to collections and that's a black mark on your report. So it ends up being that they report all the negatives but never report anything positive. So whatever you do, they always hurt your credit score.

At least utilities and phone companies typically count as a soft pull, so you don't get that hit.

 

[chrysek]

I hate this card and its experience. Here is my story

i applied soon after it was released, to my surprise I was approved for $1000 only, which did not even covered purchase of the new iphone for $1500 with the watch. Interest rate is insane. I got the card because wanted to buy apple products with it and get 3% cashback. My credit score is decent, have over $100k in credit card line of credit with 65% used, not best but ok for me, but to my surprise they only offered $1k which blows. Using the card and pretty much paying weekly so that I can keep using it and worring I am not going to hit the $1k limit.I did chat with apple/gs support about this crap multiple times and they said cant do, talk to the credit agency to see why we gave you only $1k.

I cannot even deposit extra so I could purchase that stupid iphone and get 3% cash back

Lastly this morning I got even more annoyed with this stupid card. I got transaction for $11 from some “Rechev Car Service”, so I am WTF, chatted with support and over chat they saidI had two charges for $11 one on 31st and one on 1st of this month, but I only seen one, he said one is for MTA, nyc public transportation metro card which I did buy. So I told them keep MTA and cancel this card service, so they did, but aparently both transactions were the same somehow in their system. So I called the support, they did only see one transaction, how can one company see two different things? More my receipt on my metro shows 7:10am transaction, they did show as 8:46 ( not sure if that was am or pm as support could not even say). So somehow they fu..ed up and reported this mta in my app as some car service instead of mta, so I will now have problems with my mta card. But they dont care, no apologies or anything.

I hate this card, and GS sucks.
Why I can have:
One credit card with $72k limit, another with $25k limit, yet another card with $12k limit and this stupid card with only $1k limit where I cant even but their stupid products with it? Its freaking insult. I told apple support before new iphone is released look at my shopping patterns, see that I keep spending every year on stupid phone top of the $$$ why cant you increase my limit so at least I could buy that stupid phone? Why cant ai prepay? Why cant you lift a limit before I buy it or override limit for that one purchase.

Just freaking bad experience.
Chris

 

[konqerror]

Why cant ai prepay?

You can't prepay any card. Basically, prepaying a credit card or carrying a positive balance is too similar to being a deposit bank account. It is illegal to take deposits from consumers without being an FDIC (or similar) -insured and regulated bank.

I got transaction for $11 from some “Rechev Car Service”

That feature uses Apple Maps POIs and therefore gets confused often. Open the charge, click on the header where it has the Day and Daily cash amount, click Report an Issue, and look under "Shown on Statement As".

I think that's the privacy thing they talk about. The Wallet labeling uses GPS location and therefore is never sent to GS. GS only sees "shown on statement as".

 

[chrysek]

You can't prepay any card. Basically, prepaying a credit card or carrying a positive balance is too similar to being a deposit bank account. It is illegal to take deposits from consumers without being an FDIC (or similar) -insured and regulated bank.

not true, all my cards I can specify how much I want to pay, if I send check to any of my credit cards I can send more than I own and I will have that extra cash there, they never did decline check or transfer than was more than I had on my card. Apple does not let you do it in app at all, even you cannot pay if transaction is pending.

Lastly takes forever for them to post payment. My bank deducts money right away but it takes few days longer for apple to even clear. Luckily there is a work around for this.

 

[konqerror]

not true, all my cards I can specify how much I want to pay, if I send check to any of my credit cards I can send more than I own and I will have that extra cash there

Not true. That's because you're breaking the system by sending a check or pushing a transfer.

It is also a sign of fraud and money laundering. You may be trying to spend a bad check or money that was stolen.

If you do that too much, they will close your account. People have had this happen, look for it online.

None of my cards allow you to overpay their online pull.

 

[chrysek]

Not true. That's because you're breaking the system by sending a check. If you do that too much, they will close your account. People have had this happen, look for it online.

None of my cards allow you to overpay online.

strange, never had issues, they never complained receiving money, if that was so illegal they would decline check or transaction or should send check with difference. But whatever, that was not my point in the post, all I wanted to express my disappointment and dissatisfaction with this card experience, the insult and bad experience.

 

[konqerror]

strange, never had issues, they never complained receiving money, if that was so illegal they would decline check or transaction or should send check with difference.

If you are not an established customer, they will reject the payment.

They will let it slide on an established account, assuming you made a mistake, but if you do this regularly, one day you will get a letter that your account was closed.

 

[Gutwrench]

... I appreciate two things. One, the loan isn’t reported to credit agencies. I think that is fair since the upgrade program is more like a lease or subscription. Also when you get a phone through Verizon or others, it’s not considered a loan either (not reported).

Unless your Verizon bill goes to recovery or your Verizon bill is charged off.

 

[Gutwrench]

I think it's absolutely insane in the US that a married couple with a net income of ~$300k a year is refused things like loans, phone plans or has costlier insurance because we don't have enough debt or history of debt.

Without extenuating circumstances that would not happen.

 

[KPOM]

If you do the math, this means that less than 5 million people have signed up for the card. I am estimating under 2 million people, but I want to be more flexible, so anywhere less than 5 million.

You have to take into account that barely anyone knows about the card. Even though it’s on every device, it’s a repeat of the launch of Apple Pay. You use it and no one knew it existed until they see you pay with it.

Except this time around, it’s even harder to spread awareness. Since no one can see your phone when you use the card, they just assume it’s a normal card being used with Apple Pay.
When you use the physical card, they won’t pay attention to the color. It’s only until you hand them the card that they notice the card because it’s heavy metal and has an Apple logo on it.

The average credit line is a little over $8,000, so that suggests about 1.2 million. That's not bad considering it's been around for only 2 months. Goldman Sachs isn't doing any direct advertising for it (I'm sure they are covering some of Apple's budget), and Apple's promotion has been relatively modest.

 

[Kiimora]

Come on now , when is the UK launch ?

 

[I7guy]

Apple's business model is to make money any way possible.

Yes, that is the purpose of a for profit company.

You think apple doesn't want to copy Google's business model? Apple has shown they will copy anyone's business model. Apple just launched a streaming video service copied from competitors.

No Apple doesn’t want to copy googles business model, but it seems the other way around. Streaming media started in the 1930s, so you can be rest assured everybody tripped over everybody to copy the concept.