Goldman Sachs Wants to End Apple Partnership, American Express Might Take Over

[KOTN91]

Goldman sachs is yesterdays company

 

[Lioness~]

I love my American Express card. Their customer service is top-notch. Their #1 priority is the customers and that’s why I’ve been with them for over 10+ years!

Agree, love my Amex debit card and their good service too, but I can't even recall when I joined, but definitely 10+ yrs.

Nobody uses Amex.

Wow, really…?

For those that do not like American Express…

With a partnership with Amex, Apple can then expand to many more markets rather than just North America. They will rapidly expand easily into other regions. Goldman Sachs is just way too slow for a roll out.

Come on Apple, then you can even expand Apple Card to small exclusive countries!

Time for Apple to get in the banking business themselves.

Absolutely!

Amex is accepted in most larger places, just smaller firms that don't take it here.

For the record, I have bought ALL my APPLE STUFF with my Amex card a very long time.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

All for AMEX. Add it to my Platinum and Gold, please. This would like mean better benefits as well, because quite frankly, there are none with GS/MC.

Even better if Platinum members could claim extended warranties and accidentals on financed Apple Card purchases. One can dream!

Or if it were treated as a Black card... I remember working my project manager wanted me to go to Denver that night for something, and I said all the rooms - were completely booked... so it was a no go. My project manager, who had a black AMEX, care of a family business (not this company)... said she would find a place ... AMEX would have access to inventory not available for most... comes back with a reservation. I go to Denver, get to the hotel -- and find out no room - booking error... and there are at least 25 in my situation. I call back to the project manager and she says wait, she will talk to AMEX... I am sitting there for about 10 minute watching / waiting and I noticed a commotion and what looks to be a lot of stress... then someone comes over and says - room will be ready in 5 minutes... the rest... were left waiting. My project manager said basically AMEX threatened their relationship ending for the entire hotel chain - everwhere - and the CEO of the hotel chain came down on that location like a tonne of bricks. Up until that point, I had no idea of these special invitation only cards... (I think at least $100K USD is charged through the card a month).

 

[Treq]

They're both products and services. Banks use the terms interchangeably.

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I know they use it incorrectly, that’s why it bugs me. They try to redefine a service as a product.

 

[sani_atl]

I wouldn’t be happy with this change because Mastercard is accepted everywhere, and I know I will run into Amex acceptance issues, especially with small mom and pop places like Chinese restaurants.

Just getting back from travel from Cancun Mexico for a week and Amex is not widely accepted. Most of my friends complained a lot about not being able to use their Amex however I was able to use my Apple Card everywhere.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Or if it were treated as a Black card... I remember working my project manager wanted me to go to Denver that night for something, and I said all the rooms - were completely booked... so it was a no go. My project manager, who had a black AMEX, care of a family business (not this company)... said she would find a place ... AMEX would have access to inventory not available for most... comes back with a reservation. I go to Denver, get to the hotel -- and find out no room - booking error... and there are at least 25 in my situation. I call back to the project manager and she says wait, she will talk to AMEX... I am sitting there for about 10 minute watching / waiting and I noticed a commotion and what looks to be a lot of stress... then someone comes over and says - room will be ready in 5 minutes... the rest... were left waiting. My project manager said basically AMEX threatened their relationship ending for the entire hotel chain - everwhere - and the CEO of the hotel chain came down on that location like a tonne of bricks. Up until that point, I had no idea of these special invitation only cards... (I think at least $100K USD is charged through the card a month).

What you’re describing is actually a ****** process by a credit card company to offer “perks” to their consumer base because they charge an exorbitant annual fee just to have the card. Presumably AMEX pays the hotel chains to ‘hold’ rooms for its customer base just in case. Great for the customer and hotel but what if someone actually needs a room and can’t get it?
Now if the rooms held are top tier rooms that only the 1% could afford anyway then fine but to pay wall rooms that normal people could use is a middle finger from me.

 

[PlayUltimate]

What you’re describing is actually a ****** process by a credit card company to offer “perks” to their consumer base because they charge an exorbitant annual fee just to have the card. Presumably AMEX pays the hotel chains to ‘hold’ rooms for its customer base just in case. Great for the customer and hotel but what if someone actually needs a room and can’t get it?
Now if the rooms held are top tier rooms that only the 1% could afford anyway then fine but to pay wall rooms that normal people could use is a middle finger from me.

Not sure if that is completely true. Marriott Titanium and Ambassador levels are guaranteed a Marriott-affiliated room with 48 hours notice.

 

[PlayUltimate]

If the Apple Card went to AmEx I would probably abandon it. I have an AmEx card that I am quite happy with that has benefits that I enjoy. No need for a second one.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Not sure if that is completely true. Marriott Titanium and Ambassador levels are guaranteed a Marriott-affiliated room with 48 hours notice.

Two completely different things. One is a partnership between a CC company and hotel chains. The other is strictly a hotel chain perk system.

 

[bkkcanuck8]

The card is for Americans only, so foreign acceptance rate is not really a concern for 99.9% of the cardholders.

Yes, the international acceptance is lower - but I think your assumption the card is for Americans only - is wrong. They (American Express) have been in Canada since I think 1853 (when relations were not the best) -- and now also have a banking license (Amex Bank of Canada) as of 1990.

 

[seek3r]

What you’re describing is actually a ****** process by a credit card company to offer “perks” to their consumer base because they charge an exorbitant annual fee just to have the card. Presumably AMEX pays the hotel chains to ‘hold’ rooms for its customer base just in case. Great for the customer and hotel but what if someone actually needs a room and can’t get it?
Now if the rooms held are top tier rooms that only the 1% could afford anyway then fine but to pay wall rooms that normal people could use is a middle finger from me.

My annual fee is easily covered by my free delta companion ticket every year FWIW

 

[gsurf123]

In 31 years I can't recall needing to contact customer service for a credit card. If I have to call someone to fix an issue they are a **** company I don't want to do business with in 2023

You are a living miracle. Besides some ****** companies who I had to do business with I’ve had some stolen numbers. These are not lost cards and I don’t use them at sketchy places. I’m somewhat certain a restaurant clerk got me. The latest was a card that had never been used or removed from my desk. I had just gotten it a week prior to replace a card that was worked over at Home Depot for$7K at the self-checkout. I don’t know if you get that much to the self-checkout.

 

[psycoperl]

I can confirm about the lousy customer service part. Recently I bought my air ticket for a trip I have planned for the summer. My company has a discount program for flights and I took advantage of it. The flight was purchased successfully, but Apple card flagged the purchase as suspicious. I didn't realize until about an hour later when I checked my phone and saw the notification. The wallet app let me approve the purchase, but still said it was declined. I then reached out to GS customer support for next steps through the Apple Card Chat feature. The rep just said I should try again. I did, but the website said that flight purchase is a duplicate. It was at that point I decided to just wait it out because I didn't want to be double charged and have to sort that out with Apple Card support. Turned out to be the right decision. If I had purchased another non-refundable flight it would have been two charges and who knows if I could even get that disputed. But the lousy customer rep could have said, wait until the morning and see if it processes.

You probably could have won the dispute since you were following Goldman's instructions -- and since you did it via chat, you have a written record.

 

[psycoperl]

I assume Apple will want to open Apple Card out to more regions at some point. That said, if they do then having Amex as the provider to me possibly provides more expansion opportunity through that one partner. Think Amex would be better positioned to offer consumer financial services to other territories than Goldman Sachs, not that it’s still not a lot of work to work with regulators etc.

As an Australian, I feel Amex is well accepted in this region. Pretty much all major retailers I can think of support it other than Costco (who is relevant but not massive here). Some smaller places don’t, but the number that do has increased over the past decade and I can use Amex for the majority of payments.

Australia is also a very heavy Apple market at over 50% of smartphone users. Last I saw the split was something like 55% Apple to 45% Android. If Apple partners with Amex for payments in the region, most retailers would already accept it and I imagine the large Apple install base would see most outliers accept it.

Could see Apple preferring to go with Amex over the big 4 banks here too given some of the resistance they had with Apple Pay in the region in the past.

None of this may apply to regions outside AU, but I do think Amex is a viable underwriter in Australia. I’ve also found Amex support to be good to deal with, in my experience.

For most financial services, they would need to partner with a local institution. For example, it appears that each for each country they have different financing partners. Part of this is where are the institutions licensed and what are the local regulations. The partner would be providing that knowledge and the licenses.

 

[anselpela]

“Waahh, Apple isn’t greedy enough for us!” -GS

Precisely this. Far be it from any bank to take any kind of short term loss to provide customers with a good experience. Short term is the only term banks are aware of.

 

[goonie4life9]

The clueless people ripping on Amex is laughable.

1) Their underwriting standards are no longer high. They give out their cards like candy. It isn't the 1980's anymore.

2) Amex acceptance is at well over 90% of the merchants available in the U.S, and most likely has a 99% acceptance rate at the most commonly used merchants. The card is for Americans only, so foreign acceptance rate is not really a concern for 99.9% of the cardholders.

3) Amex interchange rates are barely (if at all) higher than Visa Signature/Visa Infinite, and World Elite Mastercard fees.

4) You can either have an Amex Apple Card, or no Apple Card at all in the future. Your choice.

5) Goldman has failed at this card. Their customer service is atrocious (why I cancelled my card), and their technology has failed to keep up at times... Technology blackouts, etc. seem to have been more common than with other cards.

If Amex offers 1.5% back on non-Apple Pa purchases and 2% back on all other purchases and keeps the 0% financing on Apple Products, 99% of the people out there will be happy with that. If you hate it, close your card, you won't be missed.

Part of the problem is that GS is beholden to Apple’s requirements for customer service. Because Apple requires secrecy first, most of the reps. you talk to at GS, the Tier 1 Apple Card Specialists and Tier 2 Apple Card Supervisors, are required by Apple to answer based on pre-written scripts. The majority of the information they have is the exact same information customers have. They have to go to an entirely separate system to get detailed information (e.g., actual transaction details, such as the time, charge type, etc.) and Apple’s requirements strongly discourage them from doing that. If you need actual banking help, your issue has to be “escalated” to Tier 3, Apple Card Managers.

If this all sounds familiar, it’s because it is. This arrangement is the exact same as regular Apple Support: first level reads publicly available documents, Senior Advisors can look at a separate system that may have a little more information, and if that doesn’t work, RTA to Engineering. The problem is banking is nothing like technical support but Apple’s insistence on secrecy blinds them to this.

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

Part of the problem is that GS is beholden to Apple’s requirements for customer service. Because Apple requires secrecy first, most of the reps. you talk to at GS, the Tier 1 Apple Card Specialists and Tier 2 Apple Card Supervisors, are required by Apple to answer based on pre-written scripts. The majority of the information they have is the exact same information customers have. They have to go to an entirely separate system to get detailed information (e.g., actual transaction details, such as the time, charge type, etc.) and Apple’s requirements strongly discourage them from doing that. If you need actual banking help, your issue has to be “escalated” to Tier 3, Apple Card Managers.

If this all sounds familiar, it’s because it is. This arrangement is the exact same as regular Apple Support: first level reads publicly available documents, Senior Advisors can look at a separate system that may have a little more information, and if that doesn’t work, RTA to Engineering. The problem is banking is nothing like technical support but Apple’s insistence on secrecy blinds them to this.

Yes this. I've had to go through that whole rigmarole when I was trying to figure out why I had this left over .58 cents on my Apple card. It turned out to be the whole credit card processing of putting a small charge that this process uses to verify a credit card. But because I pay my account way before it's due it didn't have time to catch up. Leaving this odd $.58 charge remaining. Even though I had paid everything in full. But nobody could tell me why until it was escalated to Tier 3.

 

[JamesHolden]

Apple Card moving to Amex wouldn't bother me at all because I hardly use it. I only use it for Apple purchases, just like my Amazon Prime card is only used for Amazon and Whole Foods purchases. The rest of the time, I use my Bank of America card because I get anywhere from 2.6 - 3.5% back on every transaction, along with no foreign transaction fees, etc. Apple Card's rewards simply don't measure up. The only time Apple Card beats my Bank of America card is when I'm buying something directly from Apple.

 

[ikramerica]

Yes this. I've had to go through that whole rigmarole when I was trying to figure out why I had this left over .58 cents on my Apple card. It turned out to be the whole credit card processing of putting a small charge that this process uses to verify a credit card. But because I pay my account way before it's due it didn't have time to catch up. Leaving this odd $.58 charge remaining. Even though I had paid everything in full. But nobody could tell me why until it was escalated to Tier 3.

Goodness. You wasted quite a bit of your time for $0.58

 

[k1121j]

Nobody uses Amex.

as a member since 2000 i would disagree They also provide the best rates.

 

[danpass]

Interdasting. I can see how the card is good for Apple, paying for products with the whole interest-free payments option that I've been more than happy to utilize.

I have wondered how GS made money on that ....

Perhaps I should lock in the Macbook Air 15 interest-free purchase sooner rather than later lol


-

 

[danpass]

Apple has some fairly large cash on hand. I saw rumblings back in April about Apple perhaps buying (or creating) a bank.

Typical media sensationalism, trying to "be the first to report" but perhaps Apple is willing to do it.

 

[SnowCrocodile]

I love my American Express card. Their customer service is top-notch. Their #1 priority is the customers and that’s why I’ve been with them for over 10+ years!

Don’t know if things have changed but before Covid when I was traveling a lot, most smaller businesses in Europe did not accept AMEX. Which sucked since it had some useful perks that I didn’t have with my other cards.

 

[killawat]

Amex ❤️ honestly I don't patronize businesses that don't accept Amex the rare exception is the DMV and Costco (which we know the history there) otherwise its my daily driver. I've never had an issue even at tiny roadside eateries although to be fair many of them use Square and Square accepts pretty much anything.

 

[ellsworth]

That's not a good sign for GS. That means something larger is happening or about to happen.