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Good night, Intel Macs

M

mlayer

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
News is coming out that the unnamed Mac OS 27 will drop support for the final Intel Macs that still officially support Tahoe:

MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)
MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
iMac (2020)
Mac Pro (2019)

If I didn't already have a recently acquired iMac Pro, I might check for a nice deal on one of these. The Mac Pro, which is still in the depreciation stage, is still interesting architecturally if not functionally. The 2020 13" MBP or 2019 16" MBP might catch my eye as I don't have any touchbar Macs in my stable and these models at least have good keyboards.

One other thing that could be considered as a factor is Windows 11 support. There's a process to make that work. Is it worth it? I haven't tried, though my work PC experience with Win 11 makes me think it's not worth my time or effort.
 
mlayer said:
The Mac Pro, which is still in the depreciation stage, is still interesting architecturally if not functionally.
Click to expand...

I feel that it would be a bad precedent to drop distributing security patches so soon. There are plenty of people who still use those boxes functionally.

Except for the security aspect for people still needing that functionality, I'm glad to see x86 go. Apple Silicon has so much more performance at any given level of power consumption/heat.
 
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mlayer said:
News is coming out that the unnamed Mac OS 27 will drop support for the final Intel Macs that still officially support Tahoe:

MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)
MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
iMac (2020)
Mac Pro (2019)

If I didn't already have a recently acquired iMac Pro, I might check for a nice deal on one of these. The Mac Pro, which is still in the depreciation stage, is still interesting architecturally if not functionally. The 2020 13" MBP or 2019 16" MBP might catch my eye as I don't have any touchbar Macs in my stable and these models at least have good keyboards.

One other thing that could be considered as a factor is Windows 11 support. There's a process to make that work. Is it worth it? I haven't tried, though my work PC experience with Win 11 makes me think it's not worth my time or effort.
Click to expand...
Not really sure why this is “news is coming out” as Apple announced even before Mac OS 26 was out 26 would be the last Intel release.

Was confirmed at WWDC 2025 that Mac OS 26 would be last Intel Support version.

There was also quite a bit about how quickly effectively the Mac Pro 2019 was getting dropped in terms of new OS support in the forums.
 
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macOS support for Intel Macs has been unofficially dropped since Ventura. Through some testing, I have found out that the Monterey was the last version that performed absolutely amazing on Intel Macs. Since Ventura through Sequoia things were still mostly fine, but it started getting worse. And Tahoe is just horrible.

Now it's just being made official. Oh well. It was meant to happen, and we knew it would come.
 
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I have a 2019 Intel MBP which I recently moved from Sequoia to Tahoe. It seemed a good idea from a security point of view as I use the MBP as my general internet access machine. I have other Macs which are M1, and I have been running one of these on Tahoe, and it seems fine. My impression is that Tahoe is OK on the M1 machines, but I very much wish I hadn't put it on the Intel machine. It is clear from other forums that moving the Intel machine back to an earlier OS than Tahoe is very problematic – so it's effectively a one-way process. My recommendation would be that owners of Intel Macs should think at least twice before upgrading beyond Sequoia. By all means try it out by installing Tahoe on an external bootable drive, but be very sure before you install it on your internal drive.
 
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I have the last 27" iMac from 2022, Refurbished by Apple, and it is the only one that I would have bought in 2022. It has the i9 Chip, T2 Chip, 8TB SSD, Nano-Texture Screen, 5700XT graphics card with/16GB of Video Ram, and of course, user upgradeable RAM. It has an Awesome 5K Screen with Gorgeous Video, is very fast and silent, and because of the T2 Chip, I have most of the features of Tahoe, although this is the last year that I can upgrade the OS. I don't care if I can't go past Tahoe 26, it is Fantastic, and is under Apple's Extended warranties. I will upgrade my MBPro M1 Max.
 
My main computer is stil the 27' iMac 2020 (see my signature for specs) and it's still a very capable and fast computer overall. I particularly like it because of bootcamp and the large internal SSD. I have a secondary M4 Mac mini on my bedroom that I also use daily. The M4 is clearly snappier and faster, but when I go back to my 2020 iMac its not a night and day difference.

I'll probably wait until the end of the 2 extra years of security updates before I change for another Mac. Anyway, Mac studios and minis are out of stock right now and I have the impression it will be like that for a while. Its not a great period for buying new tech.
 
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mlayer said:
News is coming out that the unnamed Mac OS 27 will drop support for the final Intel Macs that still officially support Tahoe:
Click to expand...

You say "News is coming out" like (a) this wasn't announced as far back as June of last year and (b) like MacRumors.com, 9to5Mac, and AppleInsider haven't been plastering this story on slow news days all over the damn place.

This is old news.

Also, no, you can't officially have supported Windows 11 on any otherwise-compatible T2 chip because Apple has not enabled the TPM 2.0 that exists on the Intel processors of said T2 Intel Macs. You can bypass the TPM 2.0 requirement and install Windows 11 that way, but you're (a) limited to Apple's Boot Camp drivers and (b) at the mercy of Microsoft to not eventually disallow you from installing critical security updates to Windows 11.

I would stop looking at these old Intel Macs if what you want is a Mac that can run Windows. Better to get a newer Apple Silicon Mac and a decent Windows PC than to buy a Mac that will, from a performance perspective, be the worst of both worlds.
 
mlayer said:
News is coming out that the unnamed Mac OS 27 will drop support for the final Intel Macs that still officially support Tahoe:

MacBook Pro (16-inch, 2019)
MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2020, Four Thunderbolt 3 ports)
iMac (2020)
Mac Pro (2019)

If I didn't already have a recently acquired iMac Pro, I might check for a nice deal on one of these. The Mac Pro, which is still in the depreciation stage, is still interesting architecturally if not functionally. The 2020 13" MBP or 2019 16" MBP might catch my eye as I don't have any touchbar Macs in my stable and these models at least have good keyboards.

One other thing that could be considered as a factor is Windows 11 support. There's a process to make that work. Is it worth it? I haven't tried, though my work PC experience with Win 11 makes me think it's not worth my time or effort.
Click to expand...


Upgrading to windows 11 pro is very easy to by pass the TPM 2.0 checks. Tons of YouTube videos on how to do it. I currently run windows 11 pro on my 2020 5k iMac with i9 and 6900XT EGPU set up and it’s very stable. Way more stable than windows 10. Also I custom fine tuned my iMac with windows custom hidden performance settings and 3rd party software.

After tinkering with the settings my i9 hits 5GHz max boost clock speeds in single threaded tasks and during long 4k gaming sessions it sustains 4.7ghz at 65 degrees C. Doesnt thermal throttle like in Mac OS down to 4.2 ghz during gaming or under heavy CPU loads. In Mac OS it can’t even hit pass 4.7ghz on single threaded tasks…

I also custom fine tuned my RX 6900XT and during 4k gaming core temps hit 60’s with hotspot junction temps hitting 70’s. I modified my Razer Core X Chroma with dual Noctua premium fans and undervolted my GPU with AMD software. I’m getting a solid 110 fps playing Diablo IV in 4k play on high settings. I also get great 4k fps in alot of other demanding titles.

After fine tuning my iMac in windows 11 pro my iMac is way more snappier and more responsive than running Mac OS sequoia. This is the reason why I stayed with my intel iMac because of Bootcamp and you can do so much customization performance tuning with it. In Mac OS can’t do any customizations with performance tuning… I’m rarely in Mac OS now unless I’m editing photos or videos. I’d say upgrading to windows 11 is totally worth it.

Now surely you can build a powerhouse pc that would destroy Intel Mac’s in gaming. However with the AI demands and the cost of building one today… make the most of what you currently have, and if anyone still own and run one today. They are still more than capable and are “far” from being obsolete.


IMG_1992.jpeg
 
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MacPowerLvr said:
I have the last 27" iMac from 2022, Refurbished by Apple, and it is the only one that I would have bought in 2022. It has the i9 Chip, T2 Chip, 8TB SSD, Nano-Texture Screen, 5700XT graphics card with/16GB of Video Ram, and of course, user upgradeable RAM. It has an Awesome 5K Screen with Gorgeous Video, is very fast and silent, and because of the T2 Chip, I have most of the features of Tahoe, although this is the last year that I can upgrade the OS. I don't care if I can't go past Tahoe 26, it is Fantastic, and is under Apple's Extended warranties. I will upgrade my MBPro M1 Max.
Click to expand...
Were they selling 27 inch iMacs in 2022?
 
The performance gap on Tahoe is real. My 2019 iMac Pro chewed through After Effects projects fine on Big Sur and Monterey, was noticeably slower on Sonoma, and on Tahoe even AE startup alone felt like a different machine. Hardware unchanged, the OS just got heavier each cycle. There's a real reason a lot of folks held off on the Tahoe upgrade — macOS 27 dropping Intel is the polite version of "we're done optimizing for x86."
 
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Andy5Kimac said:
Upgrading to windows 11 pro is very easy to by pass the TPM 2.0 checks. Tons of YouTube videos on how to do it. I currently run windows 11 pro on my 2020 5k iMac with i9 and 6900XT EGPU set up and it’s very stable. Way more stable than windows 10. Also I custom fine tuned my iMac with windows custom hidden performance settings and 3rd party software.

After tinkering with the settings my i9 hits 5GHz max boost clock speeds in single threaded tasks and during long 4k gaming sessions it sustains 4.7ghz at 65 degrees C. Doesnt thermal throttle like in Mac OS down to 4.2 ghz during gaming or under heavy CPU loads. In Mac OS it can’t even hit pass 4.7ghz on single threaded tasks…

I also custom fine tuned my RX 6900XT and during 4k gaming core temps hit 60’s with hotspot junction temps hitting 70’s. I modified my Razer Core X Chroma with dual Noctua premium fans and undervolted my GPU with AMD software. I’m getting a solid 110 fps playing Diablo IV in 4k play on high settings. I also get great 4k fps in alot of other demanding titles.

After fine tuning my iMac in windows 11 pro my iMac is way more snappier and more responsive than running Mac OS sequoia. This is the reason why I stayed with my intel iMac because of Bootcamp and you can do so much customization performance tuning with it. In Mac OS can’t do any customizations with performance tuning… I’m rarely in Mac OS now unless I’m editing photos or videos. I’d say upgrading to windows 11 is totally worth it.

Now surely you can build a powerhouse pc that would destroy Intel Mac’s in gaming. However with the AI demands and the cost of building one today… make the most of what you currently have, and if anyone still own and run one today. They are still more than capable and are “far” from being obsolete.


View attachment 2634643
Click to expand...

If you're happy switching OS you would probably get even more gaming performance with Linux, specifically CachyOS which is tuned for gaming. Also, full 5K resolution on iMacs running Linux recently starting working. See here for details (https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-5k-check-if-linux-works-at-5k.2459774/page-2).

Personally my plan is to stay on Sequoia and gradually move over to Ubuntu. No After Effects on Linux, but DaVinci Resolve is fully supported.

These 5K displays every bit hold their own in the modern world, so won't be throwing mine away any time soon!
 
Good riddance, honestly. Intel was a great step forward from the PowerPC era, but it became painfully obvious a long time ago that Intel was holding Apple back.

The Macs that illustrated this perfectly for me were the two 2020 MacBook Airs: one with the Intel i5 and one with the M1. Same exact design, different processor inside, so it was easy to compare. The M1 felt twice as fast and had 2-3x the battery life. The i5 would gasp and wheeze through the day, fans blazing, and pull like 10-15 watts going anything at all. I’d struggle to get 4-5 hours’ battery life out of it at best. The M1 would pull well under 5 watts most of the time, fanless and dead silent, and I could very realistically use it for 12 hours on a charge.
 
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ignatius345 said:
Good riddance, honestly. Intel was a great step forward from the PowerPC era, but it became painfully obvious a long time ago that Intel was holding Apple back.

The Macs that illustrated this perfectly were the two 2020 MacBook Airs: one with the Intel i5 and one with the M1. Same exact design, different processor inside, so it was easy to compare. The M1 felt twice as fast and had 2-3x the battery life. The i5 would gasp and wheeze through the day, fans blazing, and pull like 10-15 watts going anything at all. I’d struggle to get 4-5 hours’ battery life out of it at best. The M1 would pull well under 5 watts most of the time, fanless and dead silent, and I could very realistically use it for 12 hours on a charge.
Click to expand...
I'm not going so far as to say "good riddance" since I really liked the flexibility of Bootcamp and being able to run x86 stuff natively even in virtual machines as needed. But totally agree Intel held Apple back.

I used loaded 2019 15" and 16" MBPs up until March of this year. I always thought folks over-exaggerated the fan noise and heat, and to an extent some people do, but I didn't realize the noise and heat I put up with until I got my 16" M5 Pro. This has been a huge quality of life improvement. I run my MBP in clamshell (vertical Brydge dock) and it has always been off to the right side of my desk. I still hear "ghost fan noise" in my right ear and a bit of tinnitus because of the Intel MBPs. I fired up the 2019 15" MBP (keeping it for Mojave, 32-bit apps, Bootcamp) yesterday and immediately, the fan kicked on upon booting. Logged in, the fans spun down. Opened a Win11 virtual machine and fans spun up again and was definitely getting warm to the touch. By comparison, my M5 Pro fan simply never comes on. Well, it does come on when I run benchmarks in a loop or if a local LLM is ingesting a bunch of documents and I've asked a complex question, but even then, the fans are spinning around 25% just a low swoosh sound unlike the hair dryer Intel fans.

What really impresses me about Apple Silicon is that as I tested a few MacBook Pros out before deciding which one to keep, I found even the base M5 with 32GB memory outperformed my loaded 2019 16" MBP by 2X on every benchmark and test I threw at it, sometimes even triple the results. The Win11ARM virtual machine I use for work boots up faster and is more responsive on my M5 Pro than on the Lunar Lake-powered Dell work laptop. Apple Silicon is crazy how good/efficient/performant it is. The only reason I waited so long to make the jump was I had x86 work-related things holding me back, but this year, everything I need works in Win11ARM and I haven't been this satisfied with a tech purchase in a very long time.

Apple+Intel had a good run. Got shaky towards the end but now with Apple Silicon powering Macs, and the huge advancements they offer over even current Intel chips, I'm not going to miss Intel MBPs too much.
 
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ignatius345 said:
Good riddance, honestly. Intel was a great step forward from the PowerPC era, but it became painfully obvious a long time ago that Intel was holding Apple back.

The Macs that illustrated this perfectly were the two 2020 MacBook Airs: one with the Intel i5 and one with the M1. Same exact design, different processor inside, so it was easy to compare. The M1 felt twice as fast and had 2-3x the battery life. The i5 would gasp and wheeze through the day, fans blazing, and pull like 10-15 watts going anything at all. I’d struggle to get 4-5 hours’ battery life out of it at best. The M1 would pull well under 5 watts most of the time, fanless and dead silent, and I could very realistically use it for 12 hours on a charge.
Click to expand...

Fair point, except that there is no 5K Apple Silicon iMac. Unless you're rich enough to buy an ASD + Mac Mini there's an interest in keeping these machines going.
 
For anyone looking at these on the used market now, the real residual value is purely hardware-bound: high-spec native Boot Camp rigs for Windows, bare-metal Linux boxes, or keeping a 5K display alive. Buying them expecting a performant, long-term macOS experience has a terrible return on investment compared to even a basic Apple Silicon mini.
 
tornado99 said:
Fair point, except that there is no 5K Apple Silicon iMac. Unless you're rich enough to buy an ASD + Mac Mini there's an interest in keeping these machines going.
Click to expand...
I think this is a separate issue from Apple dropping Intel support. Agree it feels like a hole in their product lineup, but then again, I think Apple’s worked out that most big-screen Mac users prefer decoupling their display from their CPU at this point. We’re also in an era when there’s some pretty robust competition in the 5K and up display market.
 
BSDnostalgia said:
I feel that it would be a bad precedent to drop distributing security patches so soon. There are plenty of people who still use those boxes functionally.

Except for the security aspect for people still needing that functionality, I'm glad to see x86 go. Apple Silicon has so much more performance at any given level of power consumption/heat.
Click to expand...


Yeah I was watching this editor channel who did Strangers Things he's still on the Intel hardware

2019 Intel Mac Pro Tower
Pro Radeon II 32GB Graphics Card
256 GB RAM
32TB Internal Raid
8TB SSD Hard Drive
4k PCie Video Output Card (Blackmagic Decklink)
42” 4k OLED Client Monitor
3x 27” 5k Ultrafine monitors
 
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benholt said:
The performance gap on Tahoe is real. My 2019 iMac Pro chewed through After Effects projects fine on Big Sur and Monterey, was noticeably slower on Sonoma, and on Tahoe even AE startup alone felt like a different machine. Hardware unchanged, the OS just got heavier each cycle. There's a real reason a lot of folks held off on the Tahoe upgrade — macOS 27 dropping Intel is the polite version of "we're done optimizing for x86."
Click to expand...
How did you get Tahoe running on an 2017 iMac Pro (there was no 2019 model)?
 
RIP Intel Macs. You had a good run, but the race is over.

The Mac Pro (2019) will always have a special place in my heart because it was the one machine I could never get but always wanted.
 
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