IMO they really don't care as the Mac represents a small portion of their revenue. Also the Mac Pro has been neglected since the release of the 2013 model. Thankfully they released an updated, pro level Mac Pro in 2019 but it really hasn't changed since then. At least the 2019, unlike the 2013, can utilize a lot more upgrades to keep it relevant longer.
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Goodbye to PPC for now?
- Thread starter mectojic
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How much of that is used by K-Meleon?
In the distant past I’ve used this but dunno what version to use for XP now.
I didn't check as, despite it using more than the physical memory installed, it remain fairly useable. It is the lack of SSL connectivity which caused me to stop. Until I find a way around that (I haven't really looked and thank you for your suggestion) I didn't see any point in continuing. I can't even use CLI based tools like scp or sftp.
The good news is, XP still has considerably more browsers able to be built for it than PPC OSX: https://rtfreesoft.blogspot.com
Mind you, I can't promise much for a laptop with a Pentium 2, but that guy builds just about every browser there is code for XP available. And yes, they're pretty much all Firefox forks. I would normally recommend Basilisk as it should be the most feature rich, but again, no promises on a P2. Still, it does support TSL 1.3, which I can't say about anything 32-bit PPC related.
Oh, and if you're feeling bold, there's this: https://github.com/Feodor2/Mypal68
Again, absolutely no promises or guaranties about this stuff.
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TenFourFox, InterWebPPC, and Links2 support TLS 1.3. As does just about every PPC Linux browser. Just sayin'. ;-)
Oh, right, it's the OS 9 browsers and stock PPC OSX browsers that have basically lost all access to like 80% of the internet. I haven't been on nearly as much of a classic computer craze lately, and while I more or less knew the Linux side of things was pretty good, i wasn't so sure about this one aspect on Mac OS.
Of course, if there was a build of Firefox 68 PPC for OS 10.5, I'd be jumping through a lot of hoops to use it lmao.
FF 68 is already quite outdated and doesn't really work on the "modern web". It's still available on ppc64 linux, and isn't much better than stock 52.9 these days on what it can render/access. The UXP based browser forks that Roy builds are already better than FF 68. I'd say UXP is currently in the range of esr78/90/102 in modern web functionality (as of the last release), and it's impressive that UXP works on old OS's like WinXP (unofficially) and OS X Lion (officially) and even powerpc machines (via Linux).
Last time I truly used PPC on a regular basis would have sometime late 2018/early 2019, right up until my eMac's power supply called it quits. At that point I had already replaced my 12" PB G4 with an '09 white MacBook, and there was just no way I could justify buying another PPC machine as my desktop. Maybe a G5 of some sort would have worked for a short time, but late 00's/early 10's Intel machines were dirt cheap and so close to late era PPC prices that it just didn't make sense. So I bought a 2011 iMac and said goodbye to the era of daily driving PPC.
Nowadays that MacBook and iMac have been replaced with a 2013 MacBook Air and a 2023 M2 Mac mini respectively, and the only PPC machines I have left are a blueberry iBook G3, and my aforementioned 12" PB G4. Neither sees any kind of actual use, other than just to be booted up once in a while to make sure they still work, and play around on them for a little while before being put back away. It's kind of sad, that eMac was my favorite computer I've ever owned and I doubt I'll find a machine ever again that I loved as much as that one. The PowerBook is still nice too, I absolutely love the aspect ratio on that 12.1 screen and the keyboard is super solid. Would still use them if it were at all feasible, but most of my tinkering days are behind me as I really just don't find it nearly as fun as I used to, and have devoted my free time to other pursuits.
Nowadays that MacBook and iMac have been replaced with a 2013 MacBook Air and a 2023 M2 Mac mini respectively, and the only PPC machines I have left are a blueberry iBook G3, and my aforementioned 12" PB G4. Neither sees any kind of actual use, other than just to be booted up once in a while to make sure they still work, and play around on them for a little while before being put back away. It's kind of sad, that eMac was my favorite computer I've ever owned and I doubt I'll find a machine ever again that I loved as much as that one. The PowerBook is still nice too, I absolutely love the aspect ratio on that 12.1 screen and the keyboard is super solid. Would still use them if it were at all feasible, but most of my tinkering days are behind me as I really just don't find it nearly as fun as I used to, and have devoted my free time to other pursuits.
I also have been using my PPC Macs less than I used to. I never owned one when they were current, but I did use one in school, eMac, back in the early 2000s. I got my first PPC in 2016 and by then they were already vintage, though much cheaper than they are now. So for me, my PPC Macs have always been just for fun, not daily drivers. My daily driver from 2017-2022 was a Lenovo IdeaPad and I hated using that thing, so for a time PPC Macs were an escape from that. If I could use one of my PPC Macs to do something instead of that dreaded IdeaPad I would. Eventually, I got into early Intel Macs and by the time I got a 2012 MBP I was able to ditch the IdeaPad forever. I have a M2 Mac Mini as my daily driver now and while it does have its issues (example: Wi-Fi randomly going out), I can't say I hate using it (though I sometimes wonder if I should have gotten an M1 MacBook Air instead). So, now that I have a daily driver that I don't hate, I have less incentive to use PPC. On top of that the weather is getting hot again, which means I won't be able to use my favorite PPC Macs (my 1.5ghz Sawtooth and my G5) for long periods without the room getting uncomfortably warm, so I will defintely be using PPC even less this summer unless I get air conditioning for my room or try to setup my Power Mac towers in the basement somewhere. I still love PPC and still plan on using them from time to time, but I will admit that I have used them a lot less than i used to.
Makes sense.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, at one time I ran both an old Mac (most productivity) and a Linux system (Internet). One reason for this approach was that I really didn't like the application software available for Linux. Things got better--and while I still miss Macintosh software, at least I no longer actively hate the application software I can get for the Linux system. So I started using that as my main day to day system, since it was more convenient having one computer, and it meant I could have Internet available. (A blessing and a curse--makes some things easier having Internet available, but it's also a potential distraction. I'm toying with the idea of using an old Mac again to eliminate Internet distraction as I do some tasks.)
In the early 2000s I used Linux (Debian) for years as a daily driver on my only system. Simply out of curiosity and because I wanted to go the extra mile instead of smooth sailing with Windows 2000 or XP at the time - and I learned a lot from it.
Nowadays using Mac OS 8 or 9 in comparison feels almost esoteric as there is no real use case for me and I do not HAVE to use it to accomplish anything. PPC and old Mac OSes feel like some sort of model train in my basement ;-)
So just enjoy it while you can, keep the machines alive. I just love making things work and having fun in the process!
Nowadays using Mac OS 8 or 9 in comparison feels almost esoteric as there is no real use case for me and I do not HAVE to use it to accomplish anything. PPC and old Mac OSes feel like some sort of model train in my basement ;-)
So just enjoy it while you can, keep the machines alive. I just love making things work and having fun in the process!
I use Macs running Mac OS 7, 8 and (sometimes) 9 every day. Mostly 68k systems rather than PPC though. For my use they're highly productive and effective working machines.
True that they can't play on the internet, and most people I guess are far more centered on that than I am, but with software of the day they're as viable as they ever were for the breadth of work they were used for at the time - with the benefit of being free of all the distractions and complications of more modern systems with their incessant distractions and demands.
I do have an M1 MBA and iMac for occasional modern needs - such as this, for example - but the iMac hasn't been booted up for weeks, and I can post here via my G4 PowerBook anyway, so virtually all my actual computing needs could be served by systems no later than my AlBooks.
True that they can't play on the internet, and most people I guess are far more centered on that than I am, but with software of the day they're as viable as they ever were for the breadth of work they were used for at the time - with the benefit of being free of all the distractions and complications of more modern systems with their incessant distractions and demands.
I do have an M1 MBA and iMac for occasional modern needs - such as this, for example - but the iMac hasn't been booted up for weeks, and I can post here via my G4 PowerBook anyway, so virtually all my actual computing needs could be served by systems no later than my AlBooks.
This is one of those mysteries of people I can never fully understand.
I totally get that in your situation, getting another PowerPC or using a different one wasn't something you were interested in doing and why that was/is (then at least).
But.
If I justified any purchase of mine I would never have owned a single PowerPC Mac.
If I justified any purchase of mine in my life, period, I would never own anything I liked or WANTED and would own all the stuff I hate.
As a little kid I gave up 'justifying' stuff. I just got what I wanted and did what I wanted to do. Because having to have a reason for it meant losing out on what I wanted.
I also moved fully to Intel Mac. But that's because I wanted to, not because I couldn't justify continuing to use them.
I guess it depends on the definition of "justification".
For me, it consists of three questions:
- Do I need it? Yes: buy. No: move on to Q2.
- Do I want it? Yes; move on to Q3. No: don't buy.
- Can I (easily) afford it? Yes: buy. No: don't buy.
I define 'justification' to mean 'a legitimate reason to get or own something'. And generally, when having to justify things in my life, it's been someone else I've had to justify it to.
I don't care for that.
So, if I want it, I will get it - even if it means waiting for years for whatever it is to become 'affordable' to my finances. Or sacrificing something else I care less about.
I see. I was referring to justifying purchases to myself, as weird as that sounds. As for justifying to someone else: what I do with my own money is my own business. I don't tell others what to do with their money either.
It's not weird - I too justify my purchases on some occasions. I've looked at stuff and gone through a similar thought process to your own and I also find it helpful sometimes to get a second opinion. I can think of situations where I've been chided for not purchasing items that were rare/relatively cheap or both.
Yeah, I'm single and a grown adult - I don't need to explain my decision-making in this regard to anyone, especially as I run a very tight ship financially and do my best to live within my means. I remember a conversation with a fellow record collector that I'd crossed paths with at shop one afternoon.
We took the same bus home and discussed our new acquisitions and he was anxious about the reaction from his spouse to his latest vinyl purchases. He mentioned wanting to pick up a reel-to-reel machine and create compilations of his favourite music but was fearful of how this would be received at home. I looked at him with bewilderment because I was unable to fully comprehend his predicament: providing that his actions didn't affect household priorities, that was his money to do with as he saw fit.
In theory, anyway...
Yes, I've been on the receiving end of "Why'd you buy THAT?" quite a few times. Or amongst people whose only virtue seems to be "Buy ONLY what you NEED", while looking down at anyone who buys more than they need or simply what they want.
It's my business as you said, I just don't like the hostility. Why people care what I buy, how, when, etc, I don't know. Jealousy perhaps.
The only person I have to justify a purchase to is my wife and then only if the purchase is going to mean sacrifice somewhere else (if it involves her or the family) or a bill will go unpaid.
But in general she buys what she wants and I buy what I want and we both don't say anything to each other about it. The only thing I care about is making sure there's no overdraft or if a bill won't be paid.
For me it's pretty much, do I want it? If yes, do I have the money?It's not weird - I too justify my purchases on some occasions. I've looked at stuff and gone through a similar thought process to your own and I also find it helpful sometimes to get a second opinion. I can think of situations where I've been chided for not purchasing items that were rare/relatively cheap or both.
Yeah, I'm single and a grown adult - I don't need to explain my decision-making in this regard to anyone, especially as I run a very tight ship financially and do my best to live within my means. I remember a conversation with a fellow record collector that I'd crossed paths with at shop one afternoon.
We took the same bus home and discussed our new acquisitions and he was anxious about the reaction from his spouse to his latest vinyl purchases. He mentioned wanting to pick up a reel-to-reel machine and create compilations of his favourite music but was fearful of how this would be received at home. I looked at him with bewilderment because I was unable to fully comprehend his predicament: providing that his actions didn't affect household priorities, that was his money to do with as he saw fit.
In theory, anyway...
If I don't have the money then when I do it's pretty much purchased immediately.
But there is always the consideration of bills and such before 'I have the money'.
My mother ended up living with my aunt and uncle during her high school years because my grandfather decided it'd be a good idea to get what HE wanted (beer) and not pay the rent. That would have been some time in the mid-1950s. Everybody got thrown out.
There was a time where I did have to explain some new tech buy to my wife. But she eventually realized (as I've said before) that what I buy is like her buying purses. After that, there was no issue. Especially since tech has been making her life a heck of a lot easier lately.
Further, she also decided that it's much better for me to be spending money on this type of stuff than spending money on beer and women that aren't her. She knows exactly where I can be found at any given hour/minute of the day.
As long as no one breaks the bank and all the bills get paid there is no issue.
That depends. When you're married money, and other assets, becomes joint money (and assets). A couple might specifically allocate a certain amount to each individual to use as their money so they can spend it as they see fit.
Likewise there are non-monetary reasons why someone may want to check with their spouse. For example space might be at a premium and so another desktop computer may need approval from the spouse.
Jealousy is one factor - these types of people are also control-freaks, busybodies, tyrants, authoritarians, bullies and generally have nothing better to with their energies than preoccupying themselves with the lives of others and this is particularly irritating for me because from personal experience, they nearly always have matters within their own lives that they ought to attend to.
Agreed and on that note...
We had a family member like that. My father had to save them from a similar fate. After they passed away it was infuriating to go through their paperwork and see that they had enjoyed unfettered hedonism at the expense of their loved ones.
There was a time where I did have to explain some new tech buy to my wife. But she eventually realized (as I've said before) that what I buy is like her buying purses. After that, there was no issue. Especially since tech has been making her life a heck of a lot easier lately.
Excellent analogising!
Further, she also decided that it's much better for me to be spending money on this type of stuff than spending money on beer and women that aren't her. She knows exactly where I can be found at any given hour/minute of the day.
As long as no one breaks the bank and all the bills get paid there is no issue.
Of course and this is exactly why I highlighted household priorities. Beyond that, people can spend their money how they see fit on whatever takes their fancy.
It was simply a matter of only having enough room in the budget for one machine - I could either pick one I liked for emotional/aesthetic reasons that was a dying if not already dead platform that grew more frustrating to use all the time, or picking one that may not be as "pleasing" to me but was objectively the better buy for functionality' sake. I could not justify buying what I wanted over what I needed.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not judging or criticizing. I just don't spend a whole lot of time rationalizing or justifying to myself the decisions that I make, so it's hard for me to understand why others would. It's your choice, you know what you need/want and what has priority. Why should there be any justification? You certainly have no need or requirement to justify it to me - let alone explain it.
We all do what we need/want/must and that's just the way it is. Our choices are our own and no one can say any different.
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This is my wife & I’s approach. We operate out of joint accounts & legally our assets are bound together through marriage. There is no his and hers, only our money. Checking in with each other about some purchases is about respect & openness for us and is not in any way policing or judging each other. This cooperative approach works pretty well for us.
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