Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
So when you personalty speculate about Apple's business culture like you are some high-up working for them, you don't need any citations when a logical deduction is presented you suddenly need citations. Most iMessage users are in US, how many people live in the US? definitely not 1.3 billion which is actually the estimate total number of iphone users(actually slightly higher than the estimated 1 billion).

Also I didn't mention the 1.3 billion number. At least follow the conversation.
To avoid the type of miscommunication that is endemic in internet discussion boards, where people spout off anything as fact to "win" a conversation...I clearly label my opinions as such. And while you didn't mention the 1.3B you did dismiss it. So I was curious about how you knew. So thanks for the link, you are guesstimating the number of iphone imessage users to be less.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeepIn2U
To avoid the type of miscommunication that is endemic in internet discussion boards, where people spout off anything as fact to "win" a conversation...I clearly label my opinions as such. And while you didn't mention the 1.3B you did dismiss it. So I was curious about how you knew. So thanks for the link, you are guesstimating the number of iphone imessage users to be less.
Of course I dismissed the 1.3 billion number. The only reason you quoted me is because you didn't like that I dismissed it. If you were so curious you could have read this post one page back. If you want to contradict logical common sense, go ahead.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001
Neither you nor I can factually say why Google is willing to pay Apple $900,000,000 per month to make Google Search as the default engine. That's not even what I asking. I am asking for your OPINION why Google is paying Apple $900M per month to Apple and why Apple accepts it. I won't hold your opinion against you.

For such a privacy minded Apple, what's your opinion on why Apple does not make it a user choice to select say DuckDuckGo, Bing, Google, or other search engines? Google Search is basically the antithesis of Apple's stance on privacy.
My opinion on my Google is paying Apple is for those individuals who can't tell a search engine from a sink-hole and does not know how to go into settings and alter any configuration on the iphone (however how many that universe is, which I don't know) they want the traffic when one selects information on the screen and touches look-up.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: dk001 and DeepIn2U
Of course I dismissed the 1.3 billion number. The only reason you quoted me is because you didn't like that I dismissed it. If you were so curious you could have read this post one page back. If you want to contradict logical common sense, go ahead.
There is no contradiction to logical sense, you are making blind assumptions now. For all you know the number of imessage users could be 1.65B. You can't prove it's not, I can't prove it is. Only Apple can substantiate a number like that.
 
  • Like
  • Disagree
Reactions: dk001 and DeepIn2U
There is no contradiction to logical sense, you are making blind assumptions now. For all you know the number of imessage users could be 1.65B. You can't prove it's not, I can't prove it is. Only Apple can substantiate a number like that.

There's many things you can't absolutely prove and still can have an informed opinion about. You look at as many data points as you can and then you come to your conclusions. They might be based on probabilities rather than absolute facts, but you're basically shutting down a lot of human enquiry.

Most statistics show that WhatsApp is the absolute market leader with about 2bn users worldwide. iMessage is only really dominant in North America. There's short over 1bn active iPhones and 1.65 active Apple devices overall. Globally.

What's the likelihood that basically every single iPhone user really uses iMessage? I'd say it's low.

Now I don't actually doubt that Apple has 1.3bn registered iMessage users because, like I said, iMessage basically installs itself when you set up an iPhone. I just think Apple may be telling the most flattering but also must useless version of the truth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001 and M3gatron
There is no contradiction to logical sense, you are making blind assumptions now. For all you know the number of imessage users could be 1.65B. You can't prove it's not, I can't prove it is. Only Apple can substantiate a number like that.
At least pay attention to what I wrote, I clearly said I doubt there are 1.3 billion unique monthly iMessage users which is not a blind assumption at all. Key word being monthly as this is how Facebook Messenger, WhatApp or Wechat etc. users are calculated not by the total number of people that have these apps installed but actually don't use them. Whatapp has over 5 billion installs on Android alone so following your logic or suggestion I could say Whatapp has well over 5 billion unique users(also taking into consideration the tens of millions of iphones owners that use Whatapp) which simply isn't true. Facebook Messenger also has over 5 billion installs on Play Store. So you can continue to contradict logical common sense.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dk001
Or are they counting each individual iMessage that’s sent as the 1.3 billion? As for me most everyone is a blue bubble and there is only the one friend that is a green bubble.
 
Apple can easily offer the users upon activation or first launch of Safari to select their own search engine such as DuckDuckGo, Google, Bing, etc... But instead of doing that, they happily accept $900M per month from Google to be the default engine without that choice. In the end, it's all about the $11,000,000,000/yr.

mskes no difference if done either at setup or in settings, under safari before launching the browser. You’re just hard-on set to point at Apple yet ignored this is an industry practice by all. We can see we’re your allegiances ly and why you’re picking this battle.

it’s cool though. Every few years a better browser is available and is fully available for download by the end user & super easy to discover.
 
There's many things you can't absolutely prove and still can have an informed opinion about. You look at as many data points as you can and then you come to your conclusions. They might be based on probabilities rather than absolute facts, but you're basically shutting down a lot of human enquiry.

Most statistics show that WhatsApp is the absolute market leader with about 2bn users worldwide. iMessage is only really dominant in North America. There's short over 1bn active iPhones and 1.65 active Apple devices overall. Globally.

What's the likelihood that basically every single iPhone user really uses iMessage? I'd say it's low.

Now I don't actually doubt that Apple has 1.3bn registered iMessage users because, like I said, iMessage basically installs itself when you set up an iPhone. I just think Apple may be telling the most flattering but also must useless version of the truth.
I appreciate the point of view. An informed opinion however, could be 90% of iphone users uses imessage. And there could be an extended discussion of why 90% isn't valid or is valid. But it's a rabbit hole when essentially trying to prove one wet finger in the air is better than another wet finger.
 
I appreciate the point of view. An informed opinion however, could be 90% of iphone users uses imessage. And there could be an extended discussion of why 90% isn't valid or is valid. But it's a rabbit hole when essentially trying to prove one wet finger in the air is better than another wet finger.

I'm more than willing to listen to a good argument about why you think that 90% of iPhone users are iMessage users.

Do you have any indications to share as to why your opinion is plausible?

Otherwise it's not entirely one wet finger against another.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001
I'm more than willing to listen to a good argument about why you think that 90% of iPhone users are iMessage users.

Do you have any indications to share as to why your opinion is plausible?

Otherwise it's not entirely one wet finger against another.
The number depends on the exact question that is being asked.
- how many iphone users use imessage as their primary?
- how many iphone users believe imessage is a viable messaging platform?
- how many iphone users use imessage occassionally?
- how many iphone send at least one message a week?

100% of everybody I know uses imessage.

We really don't know the usage of what the sending patterns are of those who have activated imessage that our outside our circle.

Even with multiple messenger applications, it's a possible that every iphone user sends an imessage message occasionally, even it's its not the primary application.
 
The number depends on the exact question that is being asked.
- how many iphone users use imessage as their primary?
- how many iphone users believe imessage is a viable messaging platform?
- how many iphone users use imessage occassionally?
- how many iphone send at least one message a week?

100% of everybody I know uses imessage.

We really don't know the usage of what the sending patterns are of those who have activated imessage that our outside our circle.

Even with multiple messenger applications, it's a possible that every iphone user sends an imessage message occasionally, even it's its not the primary application.

Well let's stick to the definition given above of unique monthly users.

In the end "hey people use this occasionally as an accident" is not really a ringing endorsement.

Anyway, based on the usage patterns of basically everyone I know, who will always initiate conversations on WhatsApp and often reply in WhatsApp even if I send them an iMessage as an experiment, I doubt that Apple's numbers are really based on people using the service as their primary application or even regularly. It just doesn't really add up.
 
Neither you nor I can factually say why Google is willing to pay Apple $900,000,000 per month to make Google Search as the default engine. That's not even what I asking. I am asking for your OPINION why Google is paying Apple $900M per month to Apple and why Apple accepts it. I won't hold your opinion against you.

For such a privacy minded Apple, what's your opinion on why Apple does not make it a user choice to select say DuckDuckGo, Bing, Google, or other search engines? Google Search is basically the antithesis of Apple's stance on privacy.
You make it sound as though Apple are locking down the choices. They and Google are just counting on people being too lazy to switch.
 
Well let's stick to the definition given above of unique monthly users.

In the end "hey people use this occasionally as an accident" is not really a ringing endorsement.

Anyway, based on the usage patterns of basically everyone I know, who will always initiate conversations on WhatsApp and often reply in WhatsApp even if I send them an iMessage as an experiment, I doubt that Apple's numbers are really based on people using the service as their primary application or even regularly. It just doesn't really add up.
Hence the difficulty of determining such a number. Some people will just dismiss the number, because the number doesn't fit into their paradigm.
 
Hence the difficulty of determining such a number. Some people will just dismiss the number, because the number doesn't fit into their paradigm.

From all I can determine online, iMessage is only widely used in the US, Australia and potentially Canada and NZ. The latter two are assumptions. So that's around 400 million people.

Hence, I find it hard to believe that there would be 1.3 billion unique monthly users, which would require almost every iPhone user to actively use the service even though a lot of them are in places where iMessage is hardly used.

This is not a fact but a logical deduction. Can it be wrong? Sure, but so far you haven't given a single argument for why it would be.

Anyway, I don't think this conversation is going anywhere so let's just leave it at that. Have a good day, evening or night depending on where in the world you are.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dk001 and I7guy
I've lived in Finland, Sweden, Malta and now live in a Central European country and everyone has always used WhatsApp.
Nobody uses anything else. Even if they have iPhones they refuse to use Messages.
Unless you provide a reasonable explanation for this, we don't believe you. Marketshare and human behavior don't lie. People use the most convenient service, especially if that service is the default when they purchase their device.
 
I'm more than willing to listen to a good argument about why you think that 90% of iPhone users are iMessage users.

Do you have any indications to share as to why your opinion is plausible?

Otherwise it's not entirely one wet finger against another.

After reading these posts I am curiously looking for the same. I have a number of cohorts in Germany who use iPhones. However they use Telegram and What’s App. England it’s What’s App. Belgium the same. It has become a real challenge communicating at times as I detest FaceBook and won’t use any of their stuff. Then add in Android Messages (RCS). Then I have US folks who use all kinds of stuff.

It is a freaking mess.
 
The number depends on the exact question that is being asked.
- how many iphone users use imessage as their primary?
- how many iphone users believe imessage is a viable messaging platform?
- how many iphone users use imessage occassionally?
- how many iphone send at least one message a week?

100% of everybody I know uses imessage.

We really don't know the usage of what the sending patterns are of those who have activated imessage that our outside our circle.

Even with multiple messenger applications, it's a possible that every iphone user sends an imessage message occasionally, even it's its not the primary application.

Just a thought on your post - using myself and a few others, we use multiple messaging apps. For me it’s iMessage, Google Messages, Telegram, and Signal. So I guess I, myself count for four messaging apps.

I suspect there are quite a few like this.

Be cool if we had a messaging service that could handle them all.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: I7guy
They may pay Apple to be default but I am sure there are Apple users like me who quickly change that to something like Duck Duck Go.
Whilst I support your decision to change search engines, your counterargument is a “straw man” fallacy.

Changing to Duck Duck Go is irrelevant to the fact that Google pays billions to be the default search engine, and the fact that Apple has “free money” from Google available to spend on implementing RCS for Apple devices.
 
Unless you provide a reasonable explanation for this, we don't believe you. Marketshare and human behavior don't lie. People use the most convenient service, especially if that service is the default when they purchase their device.
Are you for real dude?I'm telling you from my personal experiences and many people back me up. I don't know anyone that uses iMessage. Everybody uses WhatsApp. All of my friends, all of the people that I know.
iMessage is nowhere to be seen. Actually now, you're supposed to provide me your source to show me that there are people out there that use Apple's Messages.

Also, I feel like you should travel more and then you'll start to believe me. In Europe there are many people switching between iOS and Android. My friend recently switched to Android and my other friend is considering ditching iPhone and getting Samsung.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: dk001 and d686546s
Unless you provide a reasonable explanation for this, we don't believe you. Marketshare and human behavior don't lie. People use the most convenient service, especially if that service is the default when they purchase their device.

Because of the insurmountable difficulty of installing an app?

It has been established multiple times in this thread that WhatsApp is the most widely used service globally, followed probably (in no particular order) FB Messenger, WeChat and then others.

The "most convenient service" for many is one that works regardless of which phone you or the people you speak with use, that provides a consistent experience for everyone and no blue/green bubble frustration in group chats, that sends reasonably good quality images and videos across operating systems etc

Finally it's the service that everyone else uses and WhatsApp has crossed that threshold in a whole lot of Europe and Latin America, at least those are the places I have experience in, years ago.

I don't really like WhatsApp and I try avoiding it at all cost, but iMessage really isn't anything special.
 
Last edited:
I don't know anyone that uses iMessage. Everybody uses WhatsApp.
I don't know anyone that uses WhatsApp. Everybody uses iMessage. Or plain SMS.

(At least, of those people with whom I communicate.)

Shows that we each have our own experience of this. But I'm not claiming that iMessage and SMS are in the majority, that WhatsApp isn't widely used.
 
  • Like
Reactions: iHorseHead
What I think @cliveren13 is referring to is, if you move from using an iPhone to using an Android device then you have problems.

iMessage works by maintaining a list of known devices in the background. If your friend has sent you an iMessage in the past their device will default to that in the future. If you move to Android then your mobile can no longer receive iMessage but their device may try to reach you that way. You have to ‘de-list‘ with iMessage to fix that.

The problem is worst when you have a device other than your mobile which can still receive iMessage (e.g. an iPad). In this scenario iMessage believes it has successfully delivered the messages but the recipient’s mobile can’t receive it of course.
Not really, as far as the iphone becomes another sim-card, the old number will auto log-off by iOS. Apple also provides online page to log-off a number from iMessage.
 
I don't know anyone that uses WhatsApp. Everybody uses iMessage. Or plain SMS.

(At least, of those people with whom I communicate.)

Shows that we each have our own experience of this. But I'm not claiming that iMessage and SMS are in the majority, that WhatsApp isn't widely used.
In most European countries people use WhatsApp and FB Messenger. Doesn't matter what people say.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JeMeCasse and mrex
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.