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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2125883/Amazon-Google-sordid-reality-tax-avoidance.html

For its part, Google has shielded itself from the British taxman by locating its international operations in Ireland, where the corporation tax rate is a mere 12.5 per cent, around half that in Britain. Even that rock-bottom Irish rate, however, is not low enough to satisfy the company and its wealthy founders. It has deployed complex techniques known to tax experts as a ‘Double Irish’ or a ‘Dutch Sandwich’ to funnel profits to the white sands of Bermuda, via the Netherlands. The result: Google, which makes much of its money from advertising, racked up sales of £2.1billion in the UK, but paid a mere £5million of tax, or a rate of less than a quarter of one per cent.

Good gracious! What an unethical company! I can't believe Google would do such a thing! They do no evil!! Funneling profits to Bermuda?! Jeez, Apple must have trained them in the art of being unethical!!

Strangely, googles identical behavior is ok for the apologists....:)
 
Again, what's a deduction to you is a loophole to others.

No it isn't. I and others carefully explained what the difference is. If you still insist on gain saying just to be contrary, then you are either incredibly stupid, or a troll. If you'd like to defend your position that deductions and loopholes are the same, differing only on how one views them, then I'm willing to engage you.

Problem is since the "deduction" benefits you, it's ok. EIC is the best example. That's a "deduction"...it's also welfare built right into your taxes. Believe me the people who take advantage of eic don't consider it a loophole either. :rolleyes:

Nope, that's your leap of logic. I never said anything about whom deductions benefit. EIC is a deduction, not a loophole.

Again, moving around money off shore or through other states and territories isn't a "deduction", it's a manoever to side step paying a higher rate. While there are plenty of existing deductions spelled out in the tax code for corporations, there are no official line items in the tax code for those kind of tactics. That's what makes them a loophole and not a deduction, and what makes it different from EIC. If there are such official line items for such manoevers, please cite them.


So what's the answer to the question "why wouldn't corporations take advantage of this?" All you "ethical" people can't seem to answer that. Why?? Like i said before, if you can agree that every corporation that exists is unethical (because every corporation does this) then that's fine. Don't give me the "b-b-b-but Apple is more unethicaler!" spiel. Why isn't your anger directed to every corporation? Or is it?

Who said anything about Apple being more unethical? I thought it was obvious that people are complaining about the loopholes in the tax code that many corporations take advantage of. There happened to be an article on MR about how Apple does it, so Apple became an example of the ensuing discussion about the topic.


If apple is unethical so is (list every major corp here). Do you agree?

Yes, of course. Amazing...it's like you're not even reading what other people are writing.

Good gracious! What an unethical company! I can't believe Google would do such a thing! They do no evil!! Funneling profits to Bermuda?! Jeez, Apple must have trained them in the art of being unethical!!

Strangely, googles identical behavior is ok for the apologists

No one's apologizing for Google. No one's singling out any particular company.

Again, it seems you are not reading what other people are actually posting, and are simply setting up strawman arguments, making leaps of logic, introducing irrelevant points, making snide remarks and refusing to understand how a deduction could be different from a loophole. Is there a good reason why we should continue discussing this with you?
 
As a european citizen I'm rather concerned about the fact that there is no ongoing investigation about this matter in EU. I'd remind you that this is the land where Microsoft got a 500.000.000€ for its WMP and where nobody ever raised an eyebrow about a company, Google, which at the moment holds ~99% of web searches, a similar percentage about online ad revenues, which develops the most popular OS for mobiles, and which recently acquired the biggest patents pool of mobile technologies around.

If we add that the company I talked about uses exploits against competition products to bypass security settings afflicting its model of business.. I really can't see what European authorities are doing at the moment.
 
I have a great idea

Make Google pay each Safari user $100. They have our privacy information and can therefore figure out who we are. The fine is for each machine you have Safari on so two Macs equals $200.
 
No it isn't. I and others carefully explained what the difference is. If you still insist on gain saying just to be contrary, then you are either incredibly stupid, or a troll. If you'd like to defend your position that deductions and loopholes are the same, differing only on how one views them, then I'm willing to engage you.



Nope, that's your leap of logic. I never said anything about whom deductions benefit. EIC is a deduction, not a loophole.

Again, moving around money off shore or through other states and territories isn't a "deduction", it's a manoever to side step paying a higher rate. While there are plenty of existing deductions spelled out in the tax code for corporations, there are no official line items in the tax code for those kind of tactics. That's what makes them a loophole and not a deduction, and what makes it different from EIC. If there are such official line items for such manoevers, please cite them.




Who said anything about Apple being more unethical? I thought it was obvious that people are complaining about the loopholes in the tax code that many corporations take advantage of. There happened to be an article on MR about how Apple does it, so Apple became an example of the ensuing discussion about the topic.




Yes, of course. Amazing...it's like you're not even reading what other people are writing.



No one's apologizing for Google. No one's singling out any particular company.

Again, it seems you are not reading what other people are actually posting, and are simply setting up strawman arguments, making leaps of logic, introducing irrelevant points, making snide remarks and refusing to understand how a deduction could be different from a loophole. Is there a good reason why we should continue discussing this with you?

Are you kidding? There HAVE been ppl saying that what apple does is worse, and that there are "many shades of ethical". Funny you tell me to read the topic, when it's clear you haven't read this one or the other one...
 
I made zero assumptions about you. In fact, i asked you to explain yourself (you know the two questions that i asked that you ignored?) so as not to make assumptions about you

But now, it sounds more like a guilty conscience speaking. Again, why would Apple not take advantage of these loopholes, which are legal. And second, have you ever claimed any deductions or done anything ever to lower your burden?

Please don't come back saying i insulted you without answering the questions I've asked. I'll help you out, if you're as ethical as you claim, the answer to the second question would be a simple "no".

It's always a loophole until it's your loophole. Then it becomes a deduction. Gimme a break...people have been taking advantage of the tax code for years. Why people here are getting so riled up about ethics is beyond me and frankly laughable.

So you don't even realize how this:
It was sarcasm. The same people here whining about ethics are the same ones who would do whatever it takes to lower their own burden. Yet they want to be the first to throw a stone. Hypocrisy complete and true!
...is clearly an unfounded assumption followed by a blatant insult?

I already explained the difference between a loophole and a deduction, but you seem to have completely missed that paragraph. Deductions are endorsed by the government and are made within the system, loopholes are the exact opposite.
 
I'm doing the same thing you're doing. You're telling me I'm someone else, I'm telling you you're someone else. What's the issue here? It says a lot about you, that if more then one person disagrees with you, you assume they're the same person! Goodness...

How's the blog going? Are you getting any reads?
 
So you don't even realize how this:

...is clearly an unfounded assumption followed by a blatant insult?

I already explained the difference between a loophole and a deduction, but you seem to have completely missed that paragraph. Deductions are endorsed by the government and are made within the system, loopholes are the exact opposite.

I apologize for lumping you in that. i understand what you're saying is the difference between the two, my point only was that some of the so called deductions might as well be loophole because people abuse the tax system in a far more unethical way then apple and Google do. I guess the better question is why are you ok with that? You say deductions promote positive behavior, so please pray tell is positive about eic? To many, eic is one of the biggest loopholes in the tax code, and you and i pay for that too.
 
I am sure Apple is sitting pretty (and quiet) on this one waiting for Google to be sued. Why? Because then there's precedent against jailbreaking too.

Both use cases are exploiting Apple's software. Jailbreaking is now legal. This could easily overturn based on exploiting security features...

The biggest difference is that jailbreaking is done with the end user's permission.
 
Your emphasis on the word LEGAL is obviously an attempt to whitewash or obfuscate the unfairness of the practice. I agree that the right thing to do is to change the law. Corporate tax rates, as has been pointed out elsewhere, have previously been a lot higher, without many of the loopholes available today.:

You must be very proud of your amazing ability to infer the motivations of people arguing a position that dffers from your own.
You are obviously quite right--it has always my goal been to obfuscate or whitewash your opinion by stating actual facts. :rolleyes:

I bask in your radience. Thank you so much for sharing.
 
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You must be very proud of your amazing ability to infer the motivations of people arguing a position that dffers from your own.
You are obviously quite right--it has always my goal been to obfuscate or whitewash your opinion by stating actual facts. :rolleyes:

I bask in your radience. Thank you so much for sharing.

I'm not amazing, I can assure you...just putting two and two together. You pointed out something no one was disputing, that Apple isn't the only company to use loopholes. This is a fact, yes, but the way it was stated, namely by emphasizing the word EVERY, and then going on to explain where the duty of corporations lay, and to whom, came across as a variation on the Nuremberg defence, or that old standby "But everyone does it", and seemed like an attempt to diffuse the criticism of the loopholes. Hence my inference of a whitewash.

If this was not the case, and not your motivation, then I apologize.

----------

Are you kidding? There HAVE been ppl saying that what apple does is worse, .

Then it should be easy to quote them.
 
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