Google, Pixel & Privacy

[motherofpearl]

OK, so here's a thread that I'm sure will cause no controversy . . .

It's come time to upgrade my old iPhone. Everything else I use is Apple, though I've always been a bit device agnostic with my phone. The iPhone's been nice, though I've been unlucky and had some big hardware faults (which couldn't be fixed in store) and--coming from an OG Pixel--this iPhone camera was always a bit dissapointing (I'm using an iPhone 8). This was also my first phone without a headphone jack and it's one of the most annoying things (though ofc now par for the course).

I recently scored an incredible deal on a Pixel 5. I'll be paying substancially less for the Pixel 5 than an iPhone 12. While this is an Apple forum, I reckon that to be into technology is to be into UI, UX + hardware design. While Google stuff may doesn't have the same polish as Apple, I think there's a lot of talented people working at Google with a lot of new ideas. Material You looks ace, while Google's physical hardware designs have their own Californian Modern-leaning aesthetic that I really dig.

The P5 is super cool -- the camera is ace, the sizing is just right. The symmetrical bezels and the hole punch display make the design feel like magic (I think you've got to hold one to get it, it's much more impressive IRL than in photos).

BUT.... Google... I've been reading a lot about privacy and Google as I've been deciding whether to keep this phone. I've had Google phones before and not really thought about it. But now I can't tell what Google's ultimate aim is -- is the advertising & data collection in service of the product, or the product in service of the advertising & data collection? There's a certain creepiness. But I also don't want to become descended into a state of semi-paranoia -- I'm pretty sure Google won't use my location data to kidnap me, for instance.

I know the iPhone now has ATT which is cool -- though I do wonder about its effectiveness. I don't use too many apps on my phone (none of those weird ad-based games), though I do use some Facebook properties (but I'd guess their tracking transcends only the tech that can be blocked by iOS 14.5's ATT)...

Also, I think some things have changed with Google -- GDPR seems to have altered a lot of the data capture systems. It looks like most things can be turned off -- including ad personalisation? Also, while Pixel is made by Google, I hear that a Google phone may be better for privacy that some other Android OEMs.

So, people who use Pixels -- how do you approach privacy? Does Google's business model creep you out that you're going to switch to an iPhone? Or do you think it's a wee bit overblown and that government regulation keeps this under control?

In a one-to-one comparison with the iPhone I can afford (the 11), I really think the Pixel comes up tops for me -- I just wish Google had the same stance as Apple on personal privacy.

 

[Steven-iphone]

There are various ROMs (OS) replacements which can deGoogle a Pixel. I use one on my Pixel 3a. The ones that implement microG kernel can run Google apps if you have some favorite ones.

 

[Steve Adams]

OK, so here's a thread that I'm sure will cause no controversy . . .

It's come time to upgrade my old iPhone. Everything else I use is Apple, though I've always been a bit device agnostic with my phone. The iPhone's been nice, though I've been unlucky and had some big hardware faults (which couldn't be fixed in store) and--coming from an OG Pixel--this iPhone camera was always a bit dissapointing (I'm using an iPhone 8). This was also my first phone without a headphone jack and it's one of the most annoying things (though ofc now par for the course).

I recently scored an incredible deal on a Pixel 5. I'll be paying substancially less for the Pixel 5 than an iPhone 12. While this is an Apple forum, I reckon that to be into technology is to be into UI, UX + hardware design. While Google stuff may doesn't have the same polish as Apple, I think there's a lot of talented people working at Google with a lot of new ideas. Material You looks ace, while Google's physical hardware designs have their own Californian Modern-leaning aesthetic that I really dig.

The P5 is super cool -- the camera is ace, the sizing is just right. The symmetrical bezels and the hole punch display make the design feel like magic (I think you've got to hold one to get it, it's much more impressive IRL than in photos).

BUT.... Google... I've been reading a lot about privacy and Google as I've been deciding whether to keep this phone. I've had Google phones before and not really thought about it. But now I can't tell what Google's ultimate aim is -- is the advertising & data collection in service of the product, or the product in service of the advertising & data collection? There's a certain creepiness. But I also don't want to become descended into a state of semi-paranoia -- I'm pretty sure Google won't use my location data to kidnap me, for instance.

I know the iPhone now has ATT which is cool -- though I do wonder about its effectiveness. I don't use too many apps on my phone (none of those weird ad-based games), though I do use some Facebook properties (but I'd guess their tracking transcends only the tech that can be blocked by iOS 14.5's ATT)...

Also, I think some things have changed with Google -- GDPR seems to have altered a lot of the data capture systems. It looks like most things can be turned off -- including ad personalisation? Also, while Pixel is made by Google, I hear that a Google phone may be better for privacy that some other Android OEMs.

So, people who use Pixels -- how do you approach privacy? Does Google's business model creep you out that you're going to switch to an iPhone? Or do you think it's a wee bit overblown and that government regulation keeps this under control?

In a one-to-one comparison with the iPhone I can afford (the 11)

Don't worry about "privacy" you have none with either platform. You know what you are getting with google, apple is shady and backhanded at their "privacy" You don't know what they are doing because they cover it up with marketing and locked down systems. So, use the device you want to use and don't worry. Both are equal in the security and privacy front.

 

[drinkingtea]

I've been incredibly worried about privacy the last several months, and I've deleted all of my Google apps and profiles. But, meh. Sometimes I think worrying about privacy to such an extent is ridiculous. I'm just a small speck in the universe--who honestly cares what I am up to unless I have an incredibly high-profile job? And we all die in the end (existentialism, whew). We won't be worrying about our privacy when we're dead.

Also, Google states that they anonymize all data, which I'm bound to believe. Yes, Google utilizes your information for ad purposes, but if any personal data was compromised, Google would be in incredible trouble. In order for their company to be successful and to exist, Google must keep their client's information absolutely private and untouchable. Google is invested in making sure your information does not leak for their own survival.

 

[motherofpearl]

Don't worry about "privacy" you have none with either platform. You know what you are getting with google, apple is shady and backhanded at their "privacy" You don't know what they are doing because they cover it up with marketing and locked down systems. So, use the device you want to use and don't worry. Both are equal in the security and privacy front.

gulp

 

[Steve Adams]

gulp

If you think differently I have nice beach front property in antarctica to sell you. it's beautiful this time of year! Only 6ft of ice there now.

 

[grandM]

Google knows more about you than yourself. If you care about privacy Google is most definitely not your friend. I am convinced the hardware will be decent. There are phones out there with perfect privacy on linux but the software is crap. If you hesitate between a Samsung or a Pixel they probably both sell your data. Apple is much more privacy focussed. They even fought the FBI. They sell less or no data so they charge more per device.

 

[Steve Adams]

Google knows more about you than yourself. If you care about privacy Google is most definitely not your friend. I am convinced the hardware will be decent. There are phones out there with perfect privacy on linux but the software is crap. If you hesitate between a Samsung or a Pixel they probably both sell your data. Apple is much more privacy focussed. They even fought the FBI. They sell less or no data so they charge more per device.

Apple knows just as much....it's just they hide it behind the garden gate where the typical user can't see what they are up to. Apple is NO MORE privacy focused. Just their marketing team will tell you other wise. They fought the FBI for optics, NOTHING more. BTW, FBI won in the end.

 

[grandM]

Apple knows just as much....it's just they hide it behind the garden gate where the typical user can't see what they are up to. Apple is NO MORE privacy focused. Just their marketing team will tell you other wise. They fought the FBI for optics, NOTHING more. BTW, FBI won in the end.

There is a huge difference between Apple collecting data per user group for internal use and Google collecting data per user to sell. On install Apple also asks if they may, unsure if it stops all collection. Google asks also, be sure they do not stop!

 

[ian87w]

I personally am not too concerned about Google themselves. As a publicly traded company (Alphabet), Google has laws they have to abide to, and brand name, so they wouldn't do anything too "evil." However, I do have concerns about Google's ignorant attitude towards security and the Play Store. Some random developer from Russia/China who put malware in the Play Store wouldn't care less. Google don't seem to care either on what can be submitted to the Play Store. I have seen simple utilities, or even a podcasting app, requiring access to calls, contacts, and camera. Those are a telltale of something nefarious. Worse, many apps, even legitimate ones, are so poorly coded that they do require those questionable permissions.

As such, I have moved pretty much all my banking stuff to my iPhone. I also pay attention to the permissions of apps I downloaded from the Play Store.

In terms of the hardware, I'll just put a trust to the big brands. In Android case, Samsung. Samsung has such a big name that they would less likely be doing nefarious things. Plus, Samsung is also trying to convince enterprises that their phones are secure, and thus Samsung probably wouldn't infringe on privacy too much from whatever Android AOSP already does.

The question is the Chinese OEMs. They are operating at such slim margins that they are using other methods to obtain revenues, such as more ads though their first party apps. And these first party apps can be whitelisted and escape any privacy precautions that Google/Android put. To give credit, some like Xiaomi has been trying to be more transparent (allowing users to disable ads, or even uninstall some 1st party apps).

On the bright side, with Apple offering long OS support for older iPhones (eg. the 6s and 7), I believe that consumers who are concerned about privacy but cannot afford the $1000 phones do still have options. I bought my iPhone 7 Plus in early 2020, brand new.

 

[Apple_Robert]

If you don't care about being the product and having as much information about you collected and sold to third parties, as well as Google getting caught numerous times not abiding by their own privacy policy, stick with Google.

 

[Steve Adams]

There is a huge difference between Apple collecting data per user group for internal use and Google collecting data per user to sell. On install Apple also asks if they may, unsure if it stops all collection. Google asks also, be sure they do not stop!

No, there is not. They just make it sound like it. Apple does not stop either. They just make you believe they did. Also, All the leaks of intimate photos of stars a few years back was an Apple breach. Not a google. Apple has no better security for anything. They have a great marketing team and an amazing Kool aid mixing group.

 

[grandM]

No, there is not. They just make it sound like it. Apple does not stop either. They just make you believe they did. Also, All the leaks of intimate photos of stars a few years back was an Apple breach. Not a google. Apple has no better security for anything. They have a great marketing team and an amazing Kool aid mixing group.

Those pictures were no breach if I recall justly. Do you have proof apple sells individual data?

 

[ian87w]

An interesting and informative video. As much as I love Android as a platform, we need to rethink how we see Google.

 

[iHorseHead]

If you want some privacy never use the internet, buy a regular phone, not a smartphone.

 

[Steve Adams]

Those pictures were no breach if I recall justly. Do you have proof apple sells individual data?

Of course not, they just magically appeared. smdh.

 

[michael9891]

Half the people who bang on about privacy concerns will happily share every single boring moment of their lives on social media. Buy a phone with no internet access and a tin foil hat, sorted.

 

[ian87w]

Half the people who bang on about privacy concerns will happily share every single boring moment of their lives on social media. Buy a phone with no internet access and a tin foil hat, sorted.

That train of thought is childish at best.

Concerns about privacy is real when you start looking at the real documents. Good thing there's a YouTube like Louis who is willing to talk about these kind of things in addition to right of repair. Just because you have no concerns doesn't mean everybody else have to agree with you.

 

[Steve Adams]

That train of thought is childish at best.

Concerns about privacy is real when you start looking at the real documents. Good thing there's a YouTube like Louis who is willing to talk about these kind of things in addition to right of repair. Just because you have no concerns doesn't mean everybody else have to agree with you.

I sort of have to agree with him. Privacy is a concern, but the whole google is evil and apple are saints is a complete farce. Nether are better or worse than the other. And, if you want to keep your privacy, Stay off digital devices. Plain and simple. Nothing childish about it.

 

[michael9891]

That train of thought is childish at best.

Concerns about privacy is real when you start looking at the real documents. Good thing there's a YouTube like Louis who is willing to talk about these kind of things in addition to right of repair. Just because you have no concerns doesn't mean everybody else have to agree with you.

Childish at best? How is it childish to to say a lot of people who complain post everything on social media? Doesn't take much to scroll through accounts on the likes of Twitter of people voicing privacy concerns while simultaneously posting lots of revealing details about themselves and their whereabouts.

No, I don't have concerns. And I honestly don't care. But in no way did I ever suggest everyone should agree with me.

 

[ian87w]

I sort of have to agree with him. Privacy is a concern, but the whole google is evil and apple are saints is a complete farce. Nether are better or worse than the other. And, if you want to keep your privacy, Stay off digital devices. Plain and simple. Nothing childish about it.

The childish part is the refusal to see the facts. This is why I posted Louis’ video. Is terms of being critical to Apple, he’s up there. But when the facts are on the table, he also showed what’s wrong with Google. The fact that some people still think that this is Google vs Apple thing is childish. Privacy has become about the people vs the tech giants, and mindsets of “well, don’t use a smartphone then” is even more childish. Are you saying the Internet is only for people who should open all their data to Google? What kind of argument is that?

 

[michael9891]

The fact that some people still think that this is Google vs Apple thing is childish.

You could call it lots of things, childish is not one of them.

 

[Steve Adams]

The childish part is the refusal to see the facts. This is why I posted Louis’ video. Is terms of being critical to Apple, he’s up there. But when the facts are on the table, he also showed what’s wrong with Google. The fact that some people still think that this is Google vs Apple thing is childish. Privacy has become about the people vs the tech giants, and mindsets of “well, don’t use a smartphone then” is even more childish. Are you saying the Internet is only for people who should open all their data to Google? What kind of argument is that?

Apple is doing the exact same thing. So is Amazon, So is Microsoft, so is, insert tech business here. People are singling out google. They are ALL DOING IT. Plus, I cannot watch Louis his whiny constant cursing in previous videos destroys any credibility he may have. Like the message, hate the messenger.

 

[ian87w]

Apple is doing the exact same thing. So is Amazon, So is Microsoft, so is, insert tech business here. People are singling out google. They are ALL DOING IT. Plus, I cannot watch Louis his whiny constant cursing in previous videos destroys any credibility he may have. Like the message, hate the messenger.

Thus like I said, it’s consumer vs the tech giants. Google is mentioned because it’s the title of the thread. if your “solution” is for people to stop using smartphones or the internet, that’s not even an argument. It’s childish at best.

 

[Steve Adams]

Thus like I said, it’s consumer vs the tech giants. Google is mentioned because it’s the title of the thread. if your “solution” is for people to stop using smartphones or the internet, that’s not even an argument. It’s childish at best.

I am not saying thats a solution. I am saying that people using apple claiming it's holy'er than thou when it comes to privacy, is a joke and massively false.