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I doubt there would even be a whisper, much less an outcry. Apple is already asking for permission to use customer data such as email, file storage, calendars, notes, photos, password synchronization, iTunes, and Find My iPhone. All done under the auspices of iCloud Analytics.
Let's be clear here. Apple makes their money selling gadgets, services, and ads. But no, not people. Google also makes their money selling gadgets, services, and ads. And no, not people either. I am of the opinion there is nothing wrong with either company doing what they do. You obviously differ and that's okay. To each his own. Both of those companies generate significant revenue in each of the aforementioned categories. Apple makes more money selling gadgets than they make selling ads, but they sell them nonetheless. Google makes more money selling ads while still selling gadgets.
Google is getting out of email scanning to concentrate more on Enterprise. Apple is getting into email scanning to improve intelligent features such as Siri and other similar or related services. Still have no problem with either since I can control how much information I give each company.
Source? I looked into it and did find an instance where the phrase "barely legal teens" reportedly triggered a deletion.

But if true, compare why the two companies would scan your email. In the above instance the email content triggered an anti-illegal-pornography event. People could debate whether or not Apple should do this, but they certainly didn't do it so they could serve the sender a child porn ad. The difference that I think you should realize is that Google's core mission is the monetization of data, which is quite a different thing than using data (which is usually anonymize for stored locally only) to improve the function of a device. Gadgets and services are very late to Google's party, and, regardless of their new Alphabet name and new organization, exist to be synergistic with their data mining operation.

Apple's and Google's privacy policies read very differently:
- Apple: "Some companies mine your cloud data or email for personal information to serve you targeted ads. We don’t."
- Google: "Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection."
- Apple: "A lot of people would like to know where you go and what you do on the web. Safari helps keep them from finding out. The first browser ever to block third-party cookies by default and offer private browsing, Safari is built to offer the safest browsing possible."
- Google: "We provide personal information to our affiliates or other trusted businesses or persons to process it for us, based on our instructions and in compliance with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures." (this sounds nebulous and recursive)

I'd also add that Apple's products make it exceedingly simple to opt out of data sharing (see reasons above) and in most cases present an opt out choice in your face at each first instance point rather than assuming you'll find privacy settings and tailor them.

tl;dr
I think it's important to differentiate between these two policies. It's clear that Google keeps more of an eye on what you do, and it keeps an eye on it for different reasons. No personal tech company is pure and yes, Apple does have a [not-that-successful] ad platform (which is mostly used in the App Store and the News app), but I see important differences between these two companies in core mission, privacy policy, openness and disclosure, and user-oriented customization. The ability to control data reporting doesn't change that; even if they were both chained, I'd still trust a dog over a wolf.

Sry for the long reply.
 
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It's disgusting that they ever thought this was OK. I keep my interactions with Google to an absolute minimum, eschewing Gmail, Google search, Google maps, and anything else that comes up.




Google today announced that it will stop scanning the emails of its free Gmail users for the purpose of delivering personalized ads later this year.

gmail-logo.jpg

If you've recently received a lot of emails about photography or cameras, for example, currently Google may show you a deal from a local camera store that it thinks might be interesting to you. On the other hand, if you've reported those emails as spam, then Google would take steps not to show those ads.

Google users may still see personalized ads while using Gmail and the company's other services, depending on their account settings, but the contents of a user's inbox will no longer factor into the ads that are shown.

Article Link: Google Will Stop Scanning Your Emails to Show Personalized Ads in Gmail
 
Source? I looked into it and did find an instance where the phrase "barely legal teens" reportedly triggered a deletion.
Your linked article from 2013 has nothing to do with iCloud Analytics. You can find info about iCloud Analytics here, here, and multiple other sites.

But if true, compare why the two companies would scan your email. In the above instance the email content triggered an anti-illegal-pornography event. People could debate whether or not Apple should do this, but they certainly didn't do it so they could serve the sender a child porn ad. The difference that I think you should realize is that Google's core mission is the monetization of data, which is quite a different thing than using data (which is usually anonymize for stored locally only) to improve the function of a device. Gadgets and services are very late to Google's party, and, regardless of their new Alphabet name and new organization, exist to be synergistic with their data mining operation.
Two things here. 1. You've created a narrative based on faulty research. 2. You're deviating from your original comment of "Apple wouldn't do this" to trying to provide justifications for why they do exactly this. We weren't discussing why the companies do what they do. We were discussing whether or not both companies do what you claimed Apple didn't do. Now if you want to separately discuss each companies motivations and justifications that's fine. More than willing to participate. As far as our current discussion is concerned, no amount of justification is going to change the fact that Apple does exactly what you claimed they didn't. To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with what Apple is doing.

Apple's and Google's privacy policies read very differently:
- Apple: "Some companies mine your cloud data or email for personal information to serve you targeted ads. We don’t."
- Google: "Our automated systems analyze your content (including emails) to provide you personally relevant product features, such as customized search results, tailored advertising, and spam and malware detection."
- Apple: "A lot of people would like to know where you go and what you do on the web. Safari helps keep them from finding out. The first browser ever to block third-party cookies by default and offer private browsing, Safari is built to offer the safest browsing possible."
- Google: "We provide personal information to our affiliates or other trusted businesses or persons to process it for us, based on our instructions and in compliance with our Privacy Policy and any other appropriate confidentiality and security measures." (this sounds nebulous and recursive)
Sorry to say this, but your narrative here... based on faulty research as well. I should say partially faulty research since you actually did link to Google's privacy policy. Apple's privacy policy? Close, but no cigar. What you linked was Apple's marketing page about privacy, not it privacy policy. This is Apple's privacy policy. If you follow your own link, simply look in the upper right hand corner and click "Our Privacy Policy". tl;dr - they're basically the same.

I'd also add that Apple's products make it exceedingly simple to opt out of data sharing (see reasons above) and in most cases present an opt out choice in your face at each first instance point rather than assuming you'll find privacy settings and tailor them.
Since you don't use Google services I'm going to assume you're unaware of just how easy it is to opt out of data sharing as well. If you have a Google account you are one click away from accessing and controlling all of your info. You are also only one click away from the privacy policy.

tl;dr
I think it's important to differentiate between these two policies. It's clear that Google keeps more of an eye on what you do, and it keeps an eye on it for different reasons. No personal tech company is pure and yes, Apple does have a [not-that-successful] ad platform (which is mostly used in the App Store and the News app), but I see important differences between these two companies in core mission, privacy policy, openness and disclosure, and user-oriented customization. The ability to control data reporting doesn't change that; even if they were both chained, I'd still trust a dog over a wolf.
Again, you've based your entire argument on errant and insufficient information. Go read Apple's actual privacy policy. I'm sure you'll find more similarities than differences. You're still trying to provide justification for Apple doing the same thing that Google does. Google's success with ads and Apple's lack of success with ads doesn't make them different. It just makes one more successful.

Sry for the long reply.
No need to apologize. I enjoy the discourse. Also, it gives me a better understanding of why you feel the way you do. Unfortunately, it seems you've formed opinions based on inaccurate and/or incomplete information. Not that I'm hoping your opinion will change. Far from it, but at least it will be based on a more complete picture.
 
There isn't one directly. They are trying to sell Gmail as an "enterprise solution" to companies which don't want to run their own email infrastructure. It's part of what they call "G Suite". Corporate customers' email has never been scanned, but there has been a lot of confusion from them. To remove the confusion, the G Suite team pressured the Gmail team to remove content scanning entirely.

Has never been scanned for personal/corporate ad purpose or as "has never been scanned. Full stop." ?
 
I use Gmail and never once saw an ad when using this email app. And if there was ever an ad present when using Gmail online(rarely if ever TBH), I've never noticed it. Curious what am I missing here that others are experiencing?
 
I use Gmail and never once saw an ad when using this email app. And if there was ever an ad present in the online email, I've never noticed it. Curious what am I missing here that others are experiencing?

Google uses information in your email (mined by bots - not humans) to tailor a personal ad experience to your "profile" --- could be when you're using google.com or going to websites that use google's ad services.

So, if I have a gmail inbox and I talk a lot about Anker batteries --- and I go to google.com and search for something, it is possible I may get an advertisement for Anker batteries. This is a rough example.

Google announced many years ago that it was data mining emails (via bots only - not human accessible) to provide more relevant ads to users.

Facebook does this to a far worse extent. I can be on Amazon, searching for X product, go to Facebook and BAM that very product shows up on Facebook ads. I've purchased specific products at Target and they've shown up in Facebook advertisements (same for Wal-Mart). Also, my info can be shared with any company that someone on my friend list gives to games -- (wonder why all those free facebook games ask for permissions to see your friends?).

Where Google can be an invasion of privacy (in return for services) - Facebook is a gross invasion of privacy (and it is very difficult to set privacy settings from default settings) offering very little in return (imo).

My wife and I share an Amazon account. It's been a new experience since I got married to go to Facebook and have bras or other female only products be displayed all over. lol.
 
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For those wanting google search results without using google as such, try startpage.com. It's as private as DuckDuckGo, with the added benefit of not being US or U.K. Based.

mm
 
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It was around that time that I was getting into Macs and iPhones and I had the realization that if you're not paying for it in some way, you're the product being sold.

Months after I cancelled Google Ads, they charged me the month's price once. Phone support confirmed this was a glitch/mistake, that a technical department was informed, and that 'I'd be paid back once they sorted out the cause'. For over a year I waited and sometimes phoned/emailed for updates, but always got the same answer (see above).

I gave up and never got the money back that Google stole. This company lacks the ability to immediately pay back customer's money in case they make a mistake -> BAD. You can't even trust them with CC details.
 
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The only service I’m using from Google is YouTube. Lost trust in everything else.

You are using a google service daily. Be it google analytics on websites, ads in websites....etc, etc.

Or are you saying that you only go to websites that don't run any google services? So you check for google analytics , google tag manager, dfp etc etc z....

So what happens when you need to use a website....but it's running google services and tracking you (they are not).

Want to avoid google services , turn off your internet....
[doublepost=1498340384][/doublepost]
Hate google and avoid them at all costs. iCloud mail at home and O365 at work.

Can I ask how? Since so many websites run google services and you don't even know
 
They also won't track students who use Chromebooks...wait a second....
Well, I love it because they sell Chromebooks super cheap, trying to bait you to use Chrome OS, but you can just wipe it and install Linux (cause Chrome OS is trash ofc). Thinking of getting one as my next work computer or as a secondary.
[doublepost=1498341444][/doublepost]
You are using a google service daily. Be it google analytics on websites, ads in websites....etc, etc.

Or are you saying that you only go to websites that don't run any google services? So you check for google analytics , google tag manager, dfp etc etc z....

So what happens when you need to use a website....but it's running google services and tracking you (they are not).

Want to avoid google services , turn off your internet....
There are ways to block it all. It's just not worth my effort. But I do have Google's doubleclick.net and related stuff redirected to loopback in my hosts file just to save loading time.
 
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The wording of the Google statement raised a lot of questions. Facing a lawsuit, they state they will no longer scan emails "for the purpose of directing ads." They don't say they won't stop scanning and retaining all sent and received emails, which previously they have been linking to your master file, via the "universal identifying number" they use to create a dossier that includes every aspect of your life that they can assemble, e.g., every photo, everywhere you drive, every document you upload, every web search you make, every website you surf, your postings, what movies you watch, books, etc.
[doublepost=1498342929][/doublepost]
You are using a google service daily. Be it google analytics on websites, ads in websites....etc, etc.

Or are you saying that you only go to websites that don't run any google services? So you check for google analytics , google tag manager, dfp etc etc z....

So what happens when you need to use a website....but it's running google services and tracking you (they are not).

Want to avoid google services , turn off your internet....
[doublepost=1498340384][/doublepost]

Can I ask how? Since so many websites run google services and you don't even know


It is easy. Use a tracker blocker, e.g., Ghostery and you will see and can prevent Google from amassing this aspect of your life. Or use TOR, or VPN, etc. He is right that Google is amassing a massive dossier on every person on earth that they can. They count on no one understanding that is what they are up to, or reading terms of service and realizing they are assigning a number to every human they can to link every bit of data on you to one big file. You are their product. When insurance companies want to target only people who don't have certain illnesses with ads, Google knowing from your email to your doctor that you suffer from something, is invaluable. More dangerous than just facilitating discrimination, Google knows the most intimate details of your life, your vulnerabilities--if you are cheating on your spouse, if you use drugs, if you are associating with a "subversive," if you have ever said anything bad about the government, if you are in debt, etc.

Of course, once that file is built, despotic governments, intel agencies, hackers, law enforcement, criminals, etc., will have access to it as well. As one intel leader said, "If Google didn't exist, we'd have to invent it." Some folks believe that is exactly what they did.
 
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So what they are really saying is they have found a better way to track us and no longer need to use our emails...
 
That realization led to me eventually shutting down things like FaceBook, as I realized that I was just giving them all of this information for free so they could make money off of me while massively wasting my time. I wish there were a paid social network that doesn't have all that crap, but the nature of people and getting them to part with their cash means that you'd never get the network big enough to be worthwhile. They tried that with app.net a few years ago and it failed.
There's a new revenue model focused around digital currency called "tokens" that new startups are trying to use, and it also helps them raise money as initial funding because investors buy into them early-on. I hope it takes off because I'd like to pay for premium service, plus I'm pretty skeptical of how companies like Spotify and Snapchat are trying to make money, and I don't want to see another tech bubble pop. Also, before you scoff at it (as I would), millions (or billions?) of dollars of these have already been sold.

Personally, I see no problem with using Facebook for all my clubs and stuff, and I avoid wasting time on it.
 
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Well, I love it because they sell Chromebooks super cheap, trying to bait you to use Chrome OS, but you can just wipe it and install Linux (cause Chrome OS is trash ofc). Thinking of getting one as my next work computer or as a secondary.
[doublepost=1498341444][/doublepost]
There are ways to block it all. It's just not worth my effort. But I do have Google's doubleclick.net and related stuff redirected to loopback in my hosts file just to save loading time.


Not worth your effort? It takes a couple of minutes to install a blocker to shut down that part of Google's dossier building.
 
Not worth your effort? It takes a couple of minutes to install a blocker to shut down that part of Google's dossier building.
I don't think it's that easy if I'm going to be thorough. There are lots of things to fool, from cookies to IP tracing. I'd probably need a full-on proxy plus a browser plugin. And I'd need to research exactly what I need to block and make sure whatever I install isn't going to be a security risk itself or slow down my browser significantly. For what benefit? To screw Google out of a few dollars?
[doublepost=1498371059][/doublepost]
Why is webmail a security risk? And using a email client better?
Same question here. Because AFAIK, if anything, the webmail is more secure because the email headers don't have YOUR public IP address in them! And also it runs in a sandbox.
 
It was around that time that I was getting into Macs and iPhones and I had the realization that if you're not paying for it in some way, you're the product being sold.

This. I completely agree.

For email, as long as the service you are using has the features, design, and available add-ons required, it doesn't matter very much how many others are using it as long as it is enough to keep their business going.

For social networks and forums, however, how many others are using it is critically important.

Interestingly, one of the main reasons FaceBook is so popular is that everyone is using it. How they managed to get a critical mass of users at the beginning before anyone knew of its existence is a mystery, but there it is. The fact that it was free was clearly part of it.
 
Google keeping its nose out of something? Must be a cold day in Hell!

The main reason I went off Google and would be hesitant to go back to any of their services I escaped, is how they keep changing things. Gmail hasn't changed much to be fair but they meddle with (or shut down) their other things constantly. It drove me back to iPhone along with how heavily geared the Play Music app is towards shoving the monthly subscription down your throat.
 
Google uses information in your email (mined by bots - not humans) to tailor a personal ad experience to your "profile" --- could be when you're using google.com or going to websites that use google's ad services.

So, if I have a gmail inbox and I talk a lot about Anker batteries --- and I go to google.com and search for something, it is possible I may get an advertisement for Anker batteries. This is a rough example.

Google announced many years ago that it was data mining emails (via bots only - not human accessible) to provide more relevant ads to users.

Facebook does this to a far worse extent. I can be on Amazon, searching for X product, go to Facebook and BAM that very product shows up on Facebook ads. I've purchased specific products at Target and they've shown up in Facebook advertisements (same for Wal-Mart). Also, my info can be shared with any company that someone on my friend list gives to games -- (wonder why all those free facebook games ask for permissions to see your friends?).

Where Google can be an invasion of privacy (in return for services) - Facebook is a gross invasion of privacy (and it is very difficult to set privacy settings from default settings) offering very little in return (imo).

My wife and I share an Amazon account. It's been a new experience since I got married to go to Facebook and have bras or other female only products be displayed all over. lol.
Excellent summation, thank you. Yes, I too have had this same experience with both Google and Facebook alike. Completely agree that FB is by far the more egregious aggressor of the two in this regard. Cheers.
 
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Cool, still - you think an announcement like this will just cause a negative reaction anyway. I think it's cool but I know a lot of people who think Google is terrible on privacy (and yet they use Facebook every day.... (LOL)). As a heavy Google user - I'm surprised because they had to make a lot of $ off of that. I guess not enough?

I know a lot of companies switching to and currently using Google Apps (G Suite) - the company I work for uses it. Beats a terrible exchange server that you can only access on a company intranet.
[doublepost=1498246430][/doublepost]

Really. I assume you also don't use Facebook, Twitter, or any other company that provides ads that track what you do? I assume you don't shop at Wal-Mart or Target? ......... Funny because a lot of Government (State) sites use Google including colleges - lots and lots of companies use it. I guess all their trust is misplaced. <shakes head>


I also limit usage of google products to just youtube and Waze which we use once or twice a year on a road trip.
I do not use Facebook, not Twitter and do not shop and Wal-Mark or Target. Our shopping is limited to a local grocery store, local bakery, Costco and Amazon.
 
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Google wants you to remain signed into their system so they can see what you are doing on FaceBook, Snapchat, Instagram, etc. which is far more valuable than the dab of information they could glean from your email. This was purely a business decision.

This is exactly right. This is where their real money is - keep people logged in for services like YouTube, Google Music, or Google Docs to see everything they do on the internet and sell ads to them.
 
The wording of the Google statement raised a lot of questions. Facing a lawsuit, they state they will no longer scan emails "for the purpose of directing ads." They don't say they won't stop scanning and retaining all sent and received emails, which previously they have been linking to your master file, via the "universal identifying number" they use to create a dossier that includes every aspect of your life that they can assemble, e.g., every photo, everywhere you drive, every document you upload, every web search you make, every website you surf, your postings, what movies you watch, books, etc.
[doublepost=1498342929][/doublepost]


It is easy. Use a tracker blocker, e.g., Ghostery and you will see and can prevent Google from amassing this aspect of your life. Or use TOR, or VPN, etc. He is right that Google is amassing a massive dossier on every person on earth that they can. They count on no one understanding that is what they are up to, or reading terms of service and realizing they are assigning a number to every human they can to link every bit of data on you to one big file. You are their product. When insurance companies want to target only people who don't have certain illnesses with ads, Google knowing from your email to your doctor that you suffer from something, is invaluable. More dangerous than just facilitating discrimination, Google knows the most intimate details of your life, your vulnerabilities--if you are cheating on your spouse, if you use drugs, if you are associating with a "subversive," if you have ever said anything bad about the government, if you are in debt, etc.

Of course, once that file is built, despotic governments, intel agencies, hackers, law enforcement, criminals, etc., will have access to it as well. As one intel leader said, "If Google didn't exist, we'd have to invent it." Some folks believe that is exactly what they did.

Care to explain how google analytics or ads etc link to you ? You do realise you are anonymous as far as google is concerned . Apple also tracks you , anytime, you visit thier websites, and each time you download any of their software...be is apps, updates etc, that is tracked.

If you can explain how an anonymous number is linked to you, you have a case.

Apple tracks far far more with appleid .....each download, each purchase etc etc...and appleid = you, even using a VPN does not take you off the apple radar, appleid is needed for almost everything.

Using a VPN is kinda useless with google, they already treat you as anonymous, so sure...you can be paranoid.

Are you a user what has a static IP? I'm really curious how you think google tracks you. Turn off cookies mate....VPN does not solve your problem here ;)
[doublepost=1498403897][/doublepost]
Well, I love it because they sell Chromebooks super cheap, trying to bait you to use Chrome OS, but you can just wipe it and install Linux (cause Chrome OS is trash ofc). Thinking of getting one as my next work computer or as a secondary.
[doublepost=1498341444][/doublepost]
There are ways to block it all. It's just not worth my effort. But I do have Google's doubleclick.net and related stuff redirected to loopback in my hosts file just to save loading time.

That's the point, most people don't know they are using google services....case in point, most on here who hate google fail to realise that MR uses google services. first of all, to avoid google services you have to know how to find them. 99.9% of people don't realise double click is google.

If google were ever to purchase akamai or another CDN....people best turn off her internet connections :)
 
Care to explain how google analytics or ads etc link to you ? You do realise you are anonymous as far as google is concerned . Apple also tracks you , anytime, you visit thier websites, and each time you download any of their software...be is apps, updates etc, that is tracked.

If you can explain how an anonymous number is linked to you, you have a case.

Apple tracks far far more with appleid .....each download, each purchase etc etc...and appleid = you, even using a VPN does not take you off the apple radar, appleid is needed for almost everything.

Using a VPN is kinda useless with google, they already treat you as anonymous, so sure...you can be paranoid.

Are you a user what has a static IP? I'm really curious how you think google tracks you. Turn off cookies mate....VPN does not solve your problem here ;)


Anonymous to Google? LOL. You are confused about how all this works. When you use any Google service, or when you use a website that they have installed trackers on, (almost all), the value to Google goes up exponentially if they can link that data to a single person, e.g., knowing that you are having marital problems (from your Gmail), and you live in San Diego, and you have certain assets like stocks and real estate, and you have a certain income level, is extremely valuable to a law firm in the San Diego area that specializes focuses on high value divorce clients. Google puts all of this together via a universal identifier number for you.

Apple tracking you? That's so bald faced wrong that it raises the question if you are mistaken or intentionally misstating the facts. You falsely state that Apple tracks folks on their websites. Anyone with a tracker blocker, e.g., Ghostery, can go to Apple.com and see that there are zero trackers. In contrast, on MacRumors there are ten trackers that are being blocked right now, including several that Google is trying to install. You make the claim that everything we do is anonymous to Google. That is one of the most absurd claims any Google apologist has ever made. Their entire business model is built on selling ads (0ver 90% of their revenue!), and they would go out of business if they couldn't promise advertisers and others that they can reach ever more specifically targeted people.
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I don't think it's that easy if I'm going to be thorough. There are lots of things to fool, from cookies to IP tracing. I'd probably need a full-on proxy plus a browser plugin. And I'd need to research exactly what I need to block and make sure whatever I install isn't going to be a security risk itself or slow down my browser significantly. For what benefit? To screw Google out of a few dollars?
[doublepost=1498371059][/doublepost]
Same question here. Because AFAIK, if anything, the webmail is more secure because the email headers don't have YOUR public IP address in them! And also it runs in a sandbox.


Yes, you have to be on alert as companies like Google's and Facebook's very existence depends on building ever more intrusive databases on people around the world. Sad isn't it. But, there are simple steps to deny them much of what they are trying to find out about you, and remember if Google has it, then hackers, LE, intel agencies, etc., can get it. That's incredibly important for all of us to keep in mind, e.g., if you are an activist in Venezuela or Russia right now, I pray you aren't using any of Google's services or Facebook.

And let's all be thankful Apple gives us a choice and is constantly looking to improve our privacy, e.g., built in "intelligent tracking prevention" coming in iOS11 has to be freaking Google and Facebook out.

Back to your concern about the difficultly, I encourage you to try as it is very easy to take some steps like installing an ad blocker and tracker blocker. You will be amazed at how many trackers Google and others are trying to install on everyone, regardless if you don't use their services. You will be amazed also at how much better browsing the web is without the ads and trackers. Once you use them, you won't ever want to go back.

I agree that VPN's can be confusing, and I hope Apple builds it in to the next version of Safari, and TOR is simple to download and use, but can be slow; however, if you use a search engine like DuckDuckGO that doesn't track your searches and take a couple of minutes to install something like Ghostery which then works beautifully well and any of the several good ad blockers, e.g., Disconnect, etc., you will deny Google a lot of what it is trying to collect and collate about you. Of course, don't use any of Google's services like Photos, Assistant, Maps, Gmail, etc., or you will be attaching yourself to a giant vacuum that will suck every possible detail about you into their files. Fortunately, we have Apple and other companies to provide services that aren't built upon a model of giving them away in return for your privacy and information security.
 
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