Google's Work Toward Standalone iOS Maps App Complicated by Integration with Google Earth

[musicus]

Excuse me if this has been asked already, but, assuming that users report problems, and assuming that Apple implements the necessary corrections, is the correct data made available to users at that point, or do they have to wait for the app to be upgraded? To put that another way: is the map data 'hard-wired' into the app, or is it fetched dynamically from Apple?

 

[Erwin-Br]

Thing is they don't have to catch up. The POI database needs improving but that'll come pretty quickly as users report issues and, especially, if Apple allow businesses to add listings they way Google did.

"If Apple allow businesses to add listings." That's a big if.

And regarding POI's: How long would it take to process the thousands, maybe millions of reports that users are manually sending in? These need to be checked, right? How can you say it'll come pretty quickly? Add to this major task ahead the fact that Apple's Maps team is much, much smaller than Google's and I understand even less why you would think this will come pretty quickly.

"Same for accuracy of mapping data. Google's underlying map data hasn't really taken any major jumps forward in a couple of years that I can think of"

No? - For starters, they have launched their own satellite (called GeoEye-1) a few years ago. For years Google have been dependent on TomTom and TeleAtlas, just like Apple is now.

They also have their cars, which don't only take stupid pictures but actually read road signs and other intelligent stuff to improve the data.

When do you think Apple will launch its first satellite? Or less ambitious maybe, their first car? How can Apple catch up without these things?

The additional services part I agree with, Apple alone can't catch up. The thing is though, they don't need to. Google HAS to build the additional services to keep the revenue coming in via ads and subscriptions. Apple can realise revenue through hardware and app sales. The public transit info is a prime example - Apple have deliberately designed their app (and therefore data) to be extendable by third parties. In that way they can catch up and even exceed Google's services very quickly while offering a potentially much richer service as users tailor the environment to their exact requirements from a bunch of competing apps.

What we're seeing here is different business models resulting in different approaches. For a V1 Apple have actually done a pretty damn good job and the detail will fill in now it's public.

I don't know why you're suddenly switching to revenue and business models. We're customers, not shareholders.

And what's the deal with "Apple have deliberately designed their app (and therefore data) to be extendable by third parties"? Isn't that exactly what Google and Bing have been and still are doing?

The rest will come later but I really think that 'later' might not be as far away as some seem to think.

I hope you're right, even though I doubt it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against Apple Maps, I welcome alternatives. I even think Apple's Maps look better. It's just a shame they rushed it out so quickly.

 

[linuxcooldude]

What is the functionality or 3d imagery? How does it improve your ability to navigate?

It gives me what an exact building looks like, rather then a plan jane 2D representation. Similarly how I use Street View in Google maps to pin down an exact location once I get in the general area.

 

[Erwin-Br]

Inferior in some aspects only. I'm comparing it with the previous iOS 5.1.1 version of Maps. In terms of features, the new one is way better. The data part is being addressed as we speak and I don't think it will take years. Apple is strangely as vital as when Steve was alive, proof of it are these new app's features and UI.

I don't think the new one is better in terms of features, because they removed public transit and replaced it with turn by turn navigation that doesn't work well until they address the thousands of corrections users have been submitting manually.

Also, you talk of 'years of catching up'? Yeah well, I trust Apple in catching up. They did so incredibly well with the iPod (there were other mp3 players at the time), iPhone (remember blackberry?), and iPad (not the first tablet by a long shot). So, Apple 'catching up' doesn't really bother me one bit.

True, they did extremely well with the iPod, iPhone and iPad. But I feel that the mapping business is an entirely different thing than the hardware and operating system business. It's a software service, and Apple doesn't have a good track record with these. Think MobileMe and Ping.

And, again, this is only getting more and more interesting and better for us consumers.

Yes, with that I agree 100%.

 

[Judas1]

I actually avoid Google services because they are not free, I have to look at advertising, and I am being tracked and data mined. My payment is privacy. I prefer to be the customer when I use services.

I am glad iOS has a google free maps app. I am sure it will be up to speed in time. Mapping is no simple thing. Meanwhile, life goes in. I lived a solid 20 years without a map-app, I can surely survive with what I have now until Maps improves. And I will gladly suffer the mild inconvenience for the privacy.

I only use google search on my iphone and occasionally on my laptop. I have 2 gmail accounts, but will probably transition off of those next year when I switch jobs, as that will be the easiest time.

Don't worry too much. They are not interested in your personal life. They are more interested in the aggregate data that you and others contribute. And there's no such thing as privacy when you enter the online world. All you can do is trust the services and sites to be kind to you.

 

[paul4339]

Excuse me if this has been asked already, but, assuming that users report problems, and assuming that Apple implements the necessary corrections, is the correct data made available to users at that point, or do they have to wait for the app to be upgraded? To put that another way: is the map data 'hard-wired' into the app, or is it fetched dynamically from Apple?

dynamically. it's cloud-side.

 

[MH01]

I don't think Apple can even buy their way out of this one.

I haven't seen this posted yet (there are thousands of posts on the maps debacle), but here is an insight into how Google builds its maps

http://www.theatlantic.com/technolo...it-means-for-the-future-of-everything/261913/

TLDR: Google tweak every map by hand, they correlate with GPS and image data from their cars. The effort and attention to detail is astounding. Google's greatest competency is managing and indexing data.

The idea that Apple can roll out a few updates with some crowdsourcing is simply risible.

Spot on. That's exactly what I believe, for apple maps to be where google maps is at the moment will take years and not weeks or months as posters believe . Even a couple of years is an unrealistic expectation, I am not sure apple can achieve what google has setup within 5 years.

 

[musicus]

dynamically. it's cloud-side.

Thank you. That's good. So we can look forward to incremental improvements from here on in then.

 

[linuxcooldude]

I do think a web-based map for Apple is truly needed, but the delivery will be different somehow, or maybe we'll just find it on the Mac App store sooner than later.

If they do an web browser based maps, I see it more being intergraded with iCloud

 

[Jimmy James]

I'm tired of all this maps talk. Stop it.

I'm tired of all this talk about having Google use Apple's map app (which itself uses google's data). Clearly that's not an option.

 

[uberzephyr]

competition FTW!

Google wouldn't have as much incentive to make a kickass standalone maps app if apple didn't put some pressure on them

Except that Google Maps was already a kick-ass application. All it was missing was the spoken turn by turn, but the rest of the graphics, search interface, accuracy, and results display I liked a lot better than Apple's replacement. I'm sure Apple's offering will get better, but so will Google's; for me, I would PAY right now to have the old Google app back even with no improvements!

 

[macs4nw]

All these months of iOS 6 betas and Google was somehow taken by surprise? Edit: Okay, apparently Google has been “surprised” since June.

Or "surprised" since March, when iPhoto '11 was released and ditched Google Maps for what has become Apple Maps.

looks like Apple may have played this one perfectly. Catch Google off guard, fix the problems as fast as you can, then by the time google does come out with something people will be used to Apple's map. BOOM. As long as Apple gets the map together, I don't think anyone will care about google maps. Apple actually gave me a much better route to take yesterday than what google suggested.

Miscalculation/Missed opportunity by GOOGLE?

By then, a lot of Apple's maps glitches will have been resolved. The first couple of months will see a significant improvement in maps as millions of users calibrate data by simply using maps. If thousands of people travel on a road that is slightly off in maps, that road will be adjusted. If businesses find that their store pin is off, they'll Report a Problem and drop a pin in front of their door.

There will be a big bump in improvements in the first couple of months, then a gradual improvement as Apple tackles glitches and obvious problems over the year and then another big bump with the release of Maps 2.0 in iOS7 when Apple improves the codebase and adjusts/adds features. Ripping off the bandaid is only going to hurt for a quick moment but Apple will gain control of their maps and we'll see steady improvements over the long term.

I trust Apple will make the best map experience on the planet. Just hope they don't take too long. I admit that Apple's Maps are not very good, but so are google's (I live in Mexico, so maybe that's why we get 13th world treatment ¬¬). Actually the new Maps app for us is a colossal (yes, I meant COLOSSAL) improvement over the old ones. Anyways, hope they get better. I'm already reporting all the problems I encounter. It's nice that they have that option now! Hope they take care of them soon though.

Google had a big headstart, but with millions of pieces of user input, given time, APPLE's MAPS is bound for excellence. No doubt about it!

 

[mdelvecchio]

Apple Maps obviously needs allot of work.. Steve would have never released a program which is half complete.

oh really? were you here for the Final Cut Pro X controversy, or what? how about Mac OS X's launch?

nope. just another "Steve would never...!" nutter.

 

[macdaddynyc]

C'mon GOOGLE!

I really hoped Apple's map app would give us more options, but it seems that it's only going to make be purchase Google's upcoming app. Sometimes Apple to too smart for their own good.

 

[macmacgoose]

Not that I plan to unjailbreak my iOS 5.1 devices anytime soon, but if I don't get transit directions in one form or another (Google or Apple) I sure as hell won't be upgrading to iOS 6.

 

[0098386]

Just get me a working maps app with Streetview.

Personally I don't see the point in these 3D maps. It's quite interesting on Google Earth to see the contours of a mountain range, but I've never found it interesting to fly through a city or found any practical use for it. If you've found one, please let me know. I'm actually curious to see what uses it has .

 

[Bill Killer]

Even though Apple's map app is shotty now, the gMaps App did not have turn-by-turn for iOS, and was limited to Android use only. Apple saw them as being unfair, so they did what they did.

This is where Apple is 100% incorrect. It is unfair for Google to provide Apple with the same service for no extra cost.

Android is Google's baby, and as such, Android gets the full features. This is painfully simple.

Apple has to, and should, pay extra for Google's bells and whistles.

 

[sclawis300]

"Played one perfectly"? More like botched it. I dunno about everyone else but I certainly didn't sign up for beta-testing. What pisses me off is Apple issued non-apology and no immediate resolution. If I enjoyed beta-testing products I would be using Android now. Hell, at that rate may be I will.

Did you really expect a global mapping system to be perfect out of the gate?

 

[ipedro]

I agree here, at the very best, by the time a Google Maps app is released, Apple probably will have cleaned up their mess.

However, I can see the Google Maps app having the Street View and Public Transportation, features at a lot of people want. And I can also see Apple waiting until iOS 7 or later to add this, and that can end up hurting them in the long run.

I don't think Apple will ever add StreetView. FlyOver has the potential to beat StreetView at its own game and go waaay beyond.

Go to 1 Infinite Loop in Cupertino, CA and zoom in as far as you can on the entrance. Yes, you can read the address above the door.

As FlyOver gets increasingly higher resolution, Apple's Maps will have a StreetView substitute. You'll be able to fly over a street, seeing storefronts, reading street signs. Heck, the technology is already there -- and just needs to be implemented -- where you'll be able to read the OPEN - Store Hours sign in a store window. When Apple purchased C3, the technology already had a resolution of 15cm. Centimetres!

This can all be done city by city, much faster than StreetView was put together because running cars through every street in a city is slower -- and one could argue more expensive -- than flying a FlyOver equipped airplane over the same city. Apple will catch up and we'll be happy they took over this app.

 

[dv8r]

This can all be done city by city, much faster than StreetView was put together because running cars through every street in a city is slower -- and one could argue more expensive -- than flying a FlyOver equipped airplane over the same city. Apple will catch up and we'll be happy they took over this app.

They do things differently - and it's very hard for the C3 technology to get to street level on something like Manhattan because of the angles - a common thing in cities is something higher up obscuring something further down, C3 won't be able to manage that, you can verify this in 3D mode for NYC.

Google also uses the StreetView cars for gathering traffic flow, signs and other data (like optimal placement if you need a specific exit) - something the C3 technology can't do. It may be a replacement for pictures at street level (although i don't think so) - but Google will still have an advantage on the extra intelligence they get from the StreetView cars.

 

[a0me]

Same feature set? Download MapQuest if you want that. Better feature set AND turn by turn spoken directions on iPhone 3GS for that matter.

At least the new Apple maps has turn by turn, sometimes spoken, and a 3D angle view. Mapquest doesn't have the angled view but neither did google on iOS.

First off, the MapQuest app is not available in Japan, but from what I've seen of their web version, that's not a big loss as far as maps are concerned.

Additionally, some markets/regions (such as Japan) have absolutely ZERO use for turn by turn, even less spoken directions.
And like I said, 3D maps seem more like an extra that's only rarely needed.
In Japan, Google and their partners (the actual mapping is done and provided by companies such as ZENRIN and automotive manufacturers) provide the best maps available, and ditching them from iOS was probably one of Apple's dumbest move in this market.

 

[Powerbooky]

Just wondering... what will happen with iOS5 (or earlier) devices? Will the standard maps app just stop working in about one year from now? If so, I just hope Google releases its own maps app that also runs on iOS5.

 

[thasan]

I don't think Apple will ever add StreetView. FlyOver has the potential to beat StreetView at its own game and go waaay beyond.

Go to 1 Infinite Loop in Cupertino, CA and zoom in as far as you can on the entrance. Yes, you can read the address above the door.

As FlyOver gets increasingly higher resolution, Apple's Maps will have a StreetView substitute. You'll be able to fly over a street, seeing storefronts, reading street signs. Heck, the technology is already there -- and just needs to be implemented -- where you'll be able to read the OPEN - Store Hours sign in a store window. When Apple purchased C3, the technology already had a resolution of 15cm. Centimetres!

This can all be done city by city, much faster than StreetView was put together because running cars through every street in a city is slower -- and one could argue more expensive -- than flying a FlyOver equipped airplane over the same city. Apple will catch up and we'll be happy they took over this app.

With 15 cm resolution, u can't read the open store hours

 

[steve-p]

All these months of iOS 6 betas and Google was somehow taken by surprise?

Edit: Okay, apparently Google has been “surprised” since June.

Maybe they just assumed Apple wouldn't replace a working app with a half finished one, when there was still a year to go.

----------

Did you really expect a global mapping system to be perfect out of the gate?

When it's a release product by a premier brand replacing an existing one, yes. If it's not ready, it's not ready.

 

[Ping Guo]

Google had a big headstart, but with millions of pieces of user input, given time, APPLE's MAPS is bound for excellence. No doubt about it!

Given Apple's poor track record for software services such as Ping and MobileMe, and the fact that Google has a 7-year head start with mapping being one of their core technologies, I very much doubt it.