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Glad for the upgrade

Jebus I can't believe half you people. First of all I'd like to say I own a Dual 867 MDD. 2ndly I'd like to say I use it about 6 hours or more a day. Okay so now that I've gotten that out of the way maybe we can avoid the whole, oh you don't own one so don't bitch thing, or the you don't use one a lot a day so don't talk about smething you know nothing about. And yes I'm a "creative" person. By that I mean I compose music and such on my computer and with my synth. So lets have none of that crap either.

So here's what I've got to say, yes the machine is loud and if I concentrate on that pitch it can give me a headache. Also I do intend to get the upgrade. No I'm not goign to bitch about it. Because I agree with many others on here that there never was a promise of this machine being quiet. I for one thing it's a good move by apple to issue out this "upgrade."
 
Originally posted by greenstork
Self-righteous is not owning a MDD and telling people that they shouldn't be concerned over the noise. Where do you get off?

Huh? This guy refuses to accept any other view than his own. Any one else is "clued out" unless they agree with him. I would consider that self-righteous. And he's an ass to boot. :p
 
Originally posted by DavPeanut
I thought apple always used the quietest fans avaliable.

On the contrary, the two delta fans in the current MDD power supplies are the loudest 60 mm fans on the market at 47 dba. To Delta's credit, they are also the most powerful at 37 cfm.
 
Originally posted by Foxer
I've got one of the dual 1.4 powermacs on order. Do y'all think that it will be built with the new power supply?

The new FW800 machines have all new fans and a new heatsink, making them quieter than their MDD predecessors. The new 360 watt power supply has Nidec fans and not the noisy Deltas.
 
Is there a good very quiet fan for an older G4?

I've got an older G4 Tower (400Mhz) not covered by this program. Does anyone have experience with quieter fans for this? What would you recommend? Is there a really really quiet solution?
 
Back to the dead battery thing. I have zapped the PRAM, VRAM, and repaired with disk utility. I just replaced the PRAM battery three days ago to try to fix the problem, too.

For those of you that say I'm the only guy with the problem visit:
http://discusssearch.info.apple.com/WebX?127@@!keywords=10.2.4%201969



Over 100 people there are having the same problem. C'mon Apple, I sick of living in 1969.
 
Re: Is your MDD too noisy? Apple's got the answer...

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
From MacMinute:

...The Power Supply Exchange Program kit is available at no charge, with a shipping and handling fee of US$19.95. The kit contains the following items: power supply (360 W); system fan; allen key (2.5 mm); installation instructions; and a prepaid return airbill and instructions for returning the original components to Apple. ...


I'm curious what Apple is going to be doing with the returned supplies. Can they reuse them--perhaps in refurbished machines? Is Apple hoping for a quieter fan to use with these returned PSs in the future for use in refurbished machines? I don't recall if the supply inside my MDD machine has an integrated fan (the way the kit items read it may not be) and can't get to it for a couple of days, but if it was just a fan replacement then wouldn't they just send a fan? Is it the combination of the reduction in power and a less powerful fan that is quieting things? Any thoughts about what Apple will do with the returned PSs? Best wishes,

Nathan
 
it's not that I'm too upset that I'll have to pay $20 for replacements (I have a Dual 1Gz MDD), but rather that I can't simply go to a store to get one. Instead, we're forced to order and pay the $20 for it- and if we don't want to instal it ourselves, then bring it to an Apple store and pay them to do it for us.

Granted, I'll be more then happy to "get my hands dirty".... just don't like that I can't just pack everything up, go to the local mall and have everything done quick and easy.

Overall, very glad they finally admitted the problems - and even offered a fix at all...and one so cheap. I know I'll be eagerly waiting for mine.
 
Re: Is there a good very quiet fan for an older G4?

Originally posted by sososowhat
I've got an older G4 Tower (400Mhz) not covered by this program. Does anyone have experience with quieter fans for this? What would you recommend? Is there a really really quiet solution?

This isn't for everybody, but I drilled a hole just large enough to accommodate the ADC connector and speaker cable on the wall, and put my G4 533 Dual and two Firewire drives in a closet next to my room.

If you need to access the internal CD drive frequently, this obviously won't work, but I am very happy with this setup as I hate computer noise more than anything else.
 
All of us who complained to Apple about this health hazard should be pleased to see the fruits of our labor. I had actually reached the point of contacting lawyers and inquiring about a class-action lawsuit because I thought Apple would do nothing. I'm happy to be proven wrong!

Several people here have commented that Apple never promised quiet machines. This is incorrect. Apple has stated unambiguously in their own policies that they consider environmental noise to be hazardous (in agreement with all current scientific research on the subject, not to mention ISO standards) and that they intend to build quiet machines. While there will always be some subjectivity involved in what one considers "too loud" or "quiet", when noise levels exceed the threshold of physical pain for a substantial percentage of users, as do the original MDD's, I think it's quite reasonable to claim that such a product is "too loud." In the future, we will undoubtedly have a standardized method of rating noise emissions (just as we rate CRT radiation emissions now) and legal limits on how much noise is allowed for specific intended uses and environments. Apple has always been on the leading edge of this kind of effort by self-regulating the noise emissions from their machines and, again, have stated as much in their own policies. So, when a company explicitly claims that they produce quiet machines, it is reasonable to expect them to live up to those claims. BTW, I bought my MDD 867 from an Apple store and it seemed dead quiet there. I hadn't read about any noise problems and, once again, due to Apple's own claims and history of quiet machines, didn't think to bring an SPL meter or anything. stupid me ;)

g4noise.com was/is in the process of proving that the MDD's are a health hazard because they cause physical pain (headaches). So hooray for them. I think Apple saw the writing on the wall and knew that they might lose an impending product liability lawsuit (or at least didn't want the bad publicity). Conspicuously, Apple never published official noise specifications for the original MDD's, probably because they violate the ISO specs. Also, the fact that Apple bragged about making the latest generation of MDD's considerably quieter is tantamount to admitting that there was a design flaw in the original MDD's. These are just a couple of indicators that show Apple's potential vulnerability to a lawsuit.

Anyway, I think this "fix" offer from Apple is absolutely fair (and what most of us were asking for from the beginning) The $20 fee is probably called "shipping and handling" for legal reasons - you can't ask for a much better legal redress than a "free" fix, right? - but, again, I think it's fair. In fact, I give Apple credit for keeping this price so low as it must represent a slight overall loss for them (or break-even at best). However, I give us "compainers" the most credit. If not for our vocal outrage, we never would have seen this offer from Apple.

I am utterly confused by some of the posts here by people who would have us suffer physical pain in deference to some kind of bizarre allegiance to Apple. I love Apple products, but I don't live in a fantasy-land where I pretend that Apple is all-knowing and never makes a mistake. I will not tolerate a product that negatively affects my health. Anyone who would tolerate such a thing is uninformed of or simply doesn't care about their rights as a consumer. I feel sorry people who fall into that category but I don't condemn them and I can't understand why they would want to silence those of us who reasonably demand satisfaction for a real and quantifiable product malfunction. Apple thinks the noise problem is a real malfunction, otherwise they wouldn't have fixed it in the new MDD's. Ultimately, Apple also decided that our complaints were justified, otherwise they wouldn't have offered this replacement at such a low price. So who exactly are you angry with? Apple, for agreeing with us? More importantly, why do you care?

So, power to the people :) - we win and, in the long run, Apple wins. yay!
 
Originally posted by jacka55
But as far as I know, few computer companies have ever offered to replace an aesthetic problem for such a low total cost.

Aesthetic?! WTF world do you live on? The damn thing gives me headaches if I spend more than an hour in the same room with it. Accept that Apple made a mistake and is trying to rectify it. I , for one, am withholding my approval on this being a problem solver until the 'fix' is installed in my noisemaker and it doesn't give me headaches anymore (and this comes from someone who has used DP P3 system for two years.. NO WHERE NEAR AS NOISY as the G4 DP 867 I bought 5 weeks ago..)
 
I think the toughest thing about this whole argument is that everyone's milage may vary.

My dual 1GHz MDD at work is not bad enough to give me headaches, but is noticably louder than any previous models. Some people's MDDs might be better, some might be worse.

I think it's impossible to say with any certainty that what you experience is the same as everyone else.
 
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I think the toughest thing about this whole argument is that everyone's milage may vary.

My dual 1GHz MDD at work is not bad enough to give me headaches, but is noticably louder than any previous models. Some people's MDDs might be better, some might be worse.

I think it's impossible to say with any certainty that what you experience is the same as everyone else.

READ: ENVIRONMENT :)
Ambient noise offsets the headache inducing sounds. Put the same unit in a home office and tell me that it doesn't do the same thing to you.
 
Re: Learn how to choose your battles...

Originally posted by Timothy
I am amazed that people would complain so strongly against a shipping and handling fee. The loudness of the G4 is not "Apples Mistake" as has been implied. Loudness is a subjective term, and there is no measure.

Sound is measureable. Remember you can't improve what you can't measure. Apple is telling us this is an improvement.

Apple knew exactly what they shipped or they need to fire the person who hired their Test Engineering staff. My guess is they tried to take a cost saving short cut and got their equipment caught in a wringer.

If the supplies are being shipped back that means Apple it retrofitting them and sending them out as replacements. Which means some or all are getting used power supplies of unknown capabilities for their new Mac's. If that were not the case you could save the $10 for return shipments.

So what is the warranty on the replacement supply vs getting a new supply with a new power supply warranty?
 
Re: Redundant Info.

Originally posted by kazuo
I don't see the reason why real news are posted on this site. I thought it's for rumours or things expected to happen only.

The new fan must be significantly quieter or Apple wouldn't waste the effort. It's subjective all right, but some guys just complain more than women. Stop the b!tching!

Look at the title of the main page.... It says 'news'.
 
I don't know about the Apple stores, but I know that the service centers and specialists can not get this kit as a "part", and Apple would not reimburse us for doing the install. I'm glad they're not saying we'll do it for free, though I'm sure I will be doing a lot of these for my customers as a service to them.

The things I've noticed different about the MD G4s and the FW800 ones for cooling are:
Different main fan with collar that almost touches the heat sink. (sp?)
Lower wattage PSU with different, quieter fans.
High efficiency heat sink (more surface area).
More holes in the back, a regular pattern, including in the PCI covers.
Different air intake design in the lower front.

Sorry, but I couldn't help but comment on the installation by service centers statement.

Originally posted by cyks
it's not that I'm too upset that I'll have to pay $20 for replacements (I have a Dual 1Gz MDD), but rather that I can't simply go to a store to get one. Instead, we're forced to order and pay the $20 for it- and if we don't want to instal it ourselves, then bring it to an Apple store and pay them to do it for us.
 
Re: Re: Learn how to choose your battles...

Originally posted by prewwii

If the supplies are being shipped back that means Apple it retrofitting them and sending them out as replacements. Which means some or all are getting used power supplies of unknown capabilities for their new Mac's. If that were not the case you could save the $10 for return shipments.

So what is the warranty on the replacement supply vs getting a new supply with a new power supply warranty?


It doesn't seem like Apple could use these returned supplies in new machines since they'll all be 400 W and the ones in the new machines (and the replacements) are 360 W--seems like the difference would be evident if you know where to find that information.

From the Apple offer page:

Q. Are the new components covered by a warranty?

Yes. Both power supply and system fan are covered by a 90-day warranty or the remainder of the warranty or your Apple extended service agreement (such as AppleCare Protection Plan) covering the Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors) computer into which they are installed, whichever is longer.

Nathan
 
Originally posted by nickgold
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, man, but that's a problem with YOUR computer -- not 10.2.4. Maybe you need to --

- Zap PRAM

- try a different user account, see if the issue is present

- reinstall OS X (worst case scenario)

If none of that stuff works, it likely _is_ a physical problem with your computer.

Hate to say it there big guy, wait actually i dont.

You're wrong.

There are several people that this is happening to, including me. Apple discussion boards are exploding with this problem.

Maybe you shouldn't go giving advice about something you don't know about. What if he did what you said and wasted all that time reinstalling OSX? Apple is taaking care of it.

Didn't you say you have a sawtooth??? Again, you are butting your nose into MDD situations. A little jealous of our gear perhaps?

Like I said, go back to Sushi, Rookie.
 
Re: Is there a good very quiet fan for an older G4?

Originally posted by sososowhat
I've got an older G4 Tower (400Mhz) not covered by this program. Does anyone have experience with quieter fans for this? What would you recommend? Is there a really really quiet solution?

My just die and I'm trying to get a replacement.
 
Originally posted by steeleclipse
Hate to say it there big guy, wait actually i dont.

You're wrong.

There are several people that this is happening to, including me. Apple discussion boards are exploding with this problem.

Maybe you shouldn't go giving advice about something you don't know about. What if he did what you said and wasted all that time reinstalling OSX? Apple is taaking care of it.

Didn't you say you have a sawtooth??? Again, you are butting your nose into MDD situations. A little jealous of our gear perhaps?

Like I said, go back to Sushi, Rookie.

wow! I dont know if you knew this or not steele, but you are *******! I mean, instead of just respecting his opinions you jumped down his throat for the sole reason that he doesnat have an MDD. You are a very self-righteous, deluded individual, and shouldnt be posting on these boards.
 
Has anybody ordered one?

I ordered a new PS for my MDD and Apple said that they'd give weekly emails updating the status of the order. Has anyone else ordered and received the promised status email? It's been two weeks for me and I haven't received anything. (Yes, I know that they won't ship until the 10th of March).
 
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