GPU temperature over 90C

Caviar

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
50
0
I'm currently using Early 2008 Mac Pro and the ATI HD2600XT which came with it.

When I use the ATI utility or GPU temperature monitor apps like GPU-Z on bootcamp (Windows XP SP3), the temperature is about 87C on idle, and goes to like 93C when running benchmark softwares. (I ran the Final Fantasy XI benchmark software)
I know this is hot.
Do the GPU temperature monitor apps give accurate temperatures?
Or are the temperatures displayed wrong?
Because I noticed that the temperature for the CPUs are displayed higher on Boocamp than on Mac OSX.(Used HWMonitor on Bootcamp and Hardware Monitor on Mac OSX)

And I have a question for the people who use or have used the Early 2008 Mac Pros and the ATI HD2600XT with it.
How are your temperatures ?
I'd appreciate any inputs.

Thanks in advance.
 

Cindori

macrumors 68040
Jan 17, 2008
3,523
367
Sweden
anything about 90 is probably damaging your card.

normal temps are 50-75. your fan is probably clogged with dust.
 

Caviar

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
50
0
anything about 90 is probably damaging your card.

normal temps are 50-75. your fan is probably clogged with dust.
Nope.
The fan is clean.

I heard that the EFI can't control the fan on the graphic board and thats why the temperature is too high.
 

ssdar

macrumors member
Dec 6, 2008
50
0
Netherlands
I just removed my HD2600 yesterday because the fan was spinning like crazy.
And high temperatures are a likely reason for this.
It made my normally 'silent' Mac Pro sound like a crap PC .
I also have 8800gt (near silent) so the HD2600 was my second card only attached to my HDTV.
But even with my HDTV off, so the ATI card is essentially doing nothing, it still spins at full capacity.
I'm Going to call Applecare and see what they have to say about this.
 

Caviar

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
50
0
I just removed my HD2600 yesterday because the fan was spinning like crazy.
And high temperatures are a likely reason for this.
It made my normally 'silent' Mac Pro sound like a crap PC .
I also have 8800gt (near silent) so the HD2600 was my second card only attached to my HDTV.
But even with my HDTV off, so the ATI card is essentially doing nothing, it still spins at full capacity.
I'm Going to call Applecare and see what they have to say about this.
Looks like there maybe in issue with HD2600XT.

I have noticed this high temperature in bootcamp since the day I bought Mac Pro and installed & booted bootcamp.
BTW, on Mac OSX, my Mac can't monitor the GPU temperature.
I have tested Temp & Hardware Monitor and iStat Pro.
But no sensor found for the GPU.
So I only can monitor the GPU from bootcamp.

Thanks for your input.
Maybe I should replace the HD2600XT with a HD4870...
 

Caviar

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 14, 2009
50
0
fans are controlled by graphic cards ROM as always
to edit fan behaviour, dump rom, edit with RBE
http://www.techpowerup.com/articles//overclocking/vidcard/154/8
Thanks for the input.

I may have found something wrong.
But I'm not sure because I'm not familiar with these BIOS things like you are.

I downloaded RBE, acquired the flash information from my HD2600XT,
Accessed "Fan Settings", and the "Fan Throttle Control Settings" were set to the following.

Tmin: 85 C Duty Cycle: 0%
Tmax: 105 C
Tslope:80

And when I click on "Recommended settings" at the lower right hand corner,
it changes these settings to the following.

Tmin: 40 C Duty Cycle: 15%
Tman: 106 C
Tslope: 21

And I thought, isn't the default value for "Tmin" set too high?
I thought the default values were set to the wrong values.
Maybe this was causing my graphic board to be like 87 C when I wasn't even doing anything.

I have never modified any kind of ROMs in my life.
So if these values are wrong, it definitely is Apples fault.
 

ungraphic

macrumors 6502a
Nov 15, 2007
596
0
Toronto, Canada
I've got an ATI 3870 and replaced the fan with an Accelero S1 rev2. I used Arctic Silver thermal paste.

During idle, just sitting around in Windows XP Pro, temps are sitting at 44-46 degrees. When I'm playing UT2004, my temps never go above 75 deg, theyre usually around 60. When I'm playing Counter Strike: Source (or day of defeat) My temps are usually around 80-85. The highest i've ever seen them go is 95 degrees (this is according to GPU-Z, i dont have ATI Catalyst running in the background).

I'm thinking of removing and reapplying the Accelero cooler.....i think these temperatures are too high.
 

Cindori

macrumors 68040
Jan 17, 2008
3,523
367
Sweden
Accelero S1 rev2 is a passive cooler, did you mount a fan on top of it? if not, ofc you get **** temps
 

ungraphic

macrumors 6502a
Nov 15, 2007
596
0
Toronto, Canada
Accelero S1 rev2 is a passive cooler, did you mount a fan on top of it? if not, ofc you get **** temps
No, I wanted a silent card. Thing is, everyone i've seen with this card without the fan and only the Accelero S1 gets around 38-40 degrees while idle, and temps under load vary but all of them are lower than mine.
 

ungraphic

macrumors 6502a
Nov 15, 2007
596
0
Toronto, Canada
No, I wanted a silent card. Thing is, everyone i've seen with this card without the fan and only the Accelero S1 gets around 38-40 degrees while idle, and temps under load vary but all of them are lower than mine.
I put in my old ATI 3870 with the stock fan (I have two, one i upgraded to accelero s1 passive cooler). Here's something interesting;

The card with the stock fan when Idle runs around 46-50 degrees. Under full load around 85 degrees celsius again, however the maximum temperature it reached was 97 degrees celsius.

This is really odd.
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,718
2
Maybe I should replace the HD2600XT with a HD4870...
Given the 2600XT's age, I think it would be a smart thing to do. ;)

But if you wanted to keep the 2600, it might also be a good idea to re-paste it, as the stuff does dry out, and who knows the card's actual age. It could have been in storage for some time before it was ever placed in your system during assembly.
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,718
2
90C will not kill a card, it can take up to 115C
That's really pushing it though. You're too close to thermal meltdown, if not there. Literally.

Semiconductor based gates will have too much drift (n & p doped zones start to diffuse into one another) at that high a temp, and the gates are no longer operational. Most processes have a limit of 100 - 108C, to give it some safety margin. I guess they don't bother operating with a margin with GPU chips at all then. :eek: :(
 

ungraphic

macrumors 6502a
Nov 15, 2007
596
0
Toronto, Canada
That's really pushing it though. You're too close to thermal meltdown, if not there. Literally.

Semiconductor based gates will have too much drift (n & p doped zones start to diffuse into one another) at that high a temp, and the gates are no longer operational. Most processes have a limit of 100 - 108C, to give it some safety margin. I guess they don't bother operating with a margin with GPU chips at all then. :eek: :(
95 degrees was the maximum i ever got with the Accelero S1. In the first day I tried my other 3870 still using the stock fan and cooler, it reached 97 degrees on its first day.

I reapplied the thermal paste to the Accelero S1, my idle temps are now between 39-41 degrees, when playing UT2004 i got no higher than 59 degrees. I've yet to try and see how high the temps go during Counter Strike and Day of Defeat (Source).
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,718
2
95 degrees was the maximum i ever got with the Accelero S1. In the first day I tried my other 3870 still using the stock fan and cooler, it reached 97 degrees on its first day.

I reapplied the thermal paste to the Accelero S1, my idle temps are now between 39-41 degrees, when playing UT2004 i got no higher than 59 degrees. I've yet to try and see how high the temps go during Counter Strike and Day of Defeat (Source).
59C is rather cool for temps these days. ;) Ideally, 55C is where you want to keep it (derived from the "touch test", where is' warm, but not so hot you can't touch it without getting 2nd or 3rd degree burns). This origninated from hot water temps off the Hot side tap on a kitchen/bathroom faucet, and was applied to passive coolers. It's also safer for the chip in question. Unfortunately, it's not practical now for every device (and Tcore /= Tsink anyway, Tcore has always been higher), and the cooling has gone to forced air (or better) as a result, as passive coolers can only get to a certain point with efficiency, no matter how big they went (i.e. thermal conductivity of the material/s the cooler was made from, given a specific semiconductor process).

Even the new Nehalem architecture is rated to hit 67C at max (stock for Tcore). OC'ing changes this of course, as does the method of cooling. The heat sinks may still run at 55C, or possibly less (or radiator if it's water,... what ever the cooling method). But Tcore is the critical value, as that's the semiconductor itself (temp of material it's made of). Ultimately, the heat must be transfered out, or it's going to die. As the Tcore temps increase, the cooling methodolgy must change to compensate. Really simple, and unfortunately, is going to add cost if the Tcore temps get much higher without some major change in cost (lower) for liquid or some other cooling technique, or possibly new semiconductive material/process that runs cooler.

Unless this happens, we've essentially hit a plateau in terms of thermal profiles. That leaves us with messing about with current thermal conductivities of semiconductive materials, so surface area is about all that's left (larger chips perhaps with fewer layers, larger coolers of some sort to maintain a device that will operate within it's limits). This also increases costs, in terms of fewer parts/wafer (yield quantity) and/or more expensive cooling systems. Always a balance. :rolleyes: :D :p

To my way of thinking, it's time to roll out the optical computers. :eek: :p
 

DoFoT9

macrumors P6
Jun 11, 2007
17,497
27
Singapore
Nope.
The fan is clean.

I heard that the EFI can't control the fan on the graphic board and thats why the temperature is too high.
that is correct to some degree, its more because there are troubles controlling it. it can control it to some extent but not perfectly.

90C will not kill a card, it can take up to 115C
oh i donno. 90°C IDLE is pretty bad and will eventually kill it within a short amount of time.

To my way of thinking, it's time to roll out the optical computers. :eek: :p
i agree. do you have a spare billion to give me? ;)
 

DoFoT9

macrumors P6
Jun 11, 2007
17,497
27
Singapore
Is a death sentence. :eek: :p
it seriously is. on a notebook a GPU that hot is unheard of.

in a desktop it is what you would expect when a GPU is dust ridden when under stress.

I thought you were more intelligent than that. :rolleyes: :D :p
i forgot to mention that i was talking in peso currency :rolleyes: $2million peso is only $3million US. thats not TOO much to ask ;) would hardly buy me my optical computer though.
 

nanofrog

macrumors G4
May 6, 2008
11,718
2
it seriously is. on a notebook a GPU that hot is unheard of.
Speaking of laptop... did you ever manage to get a tube of TIM, and re-paste yours?

in a desktop it is what you would expect when a GPU is dust ridden when under stress.
Or in cases:
1. Inadequate cooling
2. Too much TIM

i forgot to mention that i was talking in peso currency :rolleyes: $2million peso is only $3million US. thats not TOO much to ask ;) would hardly buy me my optical computer though.
3,000,000.00 USD = 39,208,929.21 MXN

I think you need to go back and learn your math skills. :eek: Or learn to cheat, and use a currency converter. :p
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
oh i donno. 90°C IDLE is pretty bad and will eventually kill it within a short amount of time.
Yup! Not to mention a chip running that hot typically isn't as stable. So, he'll likely see more "bugs" anomalies or even crashes too.
 

ungraphic

macrumors 6502a
Nov 15, 2007
596
0
Toronto, Canada
Yup! Not to mention a chip running that hot typically isn't as stable. So, he'll likely see more "bugs" anomalies or even crashes too.
Haven't seen anything wrong at all actually; no bugs, artifacts, etc. Runs fine.

After playing Half Life 2 (19200x1200, max details and 2XFSAA) maximum temperature reached was 91. Average was around 80-85 i think under full load. I supposed reapplying the thermal paste helped a little.
 

DoFoT9

macrumors P6
Jun 11, 2007
17,497
27
Singapore
Speaking of laptop... did you ever manage to get a tube of TIM, and re-paste yours?
haha dont bring that up, because i havent done it yet LOL. summer is upon us too pretty much. was 32°C today, humidity about 80%. its still 27°C at 8pm.

i will be purchasing a 40g tub of thermal paste for $26 from the local computer store, seems a better deal then $8 for a 4g tube. :)

the main reason is that uni has gotten even more hectic (can anybody walk me through how a proxy server caches data lol?). i WILL get around to it. i promise.


Or in cases:
1. Inadequate cooling
2. Too much TIM
both good points too :p


3,000,000.00 USD = 39,208,929.21 MXN

I think you need to go back and learn your math skills. :eek: Or learn to cheat, and use a currency converter. :p
how embarasing. i did use a currency converter! i think my english skills need fixing though i probably used the wrong currencies.

oh wait actually, i meant to say 3 BILLION peso. which is 227,928,891.3 USD. hmmm ok well anyway way too expensive haha

Yup! Not to mention a chip running that hot typically isn't as stable. So, he'll likely see more "bugs" anomalies or even crashes too.
artifacts arent they called? i have experienced these when OC'ing the GPU in my MBP (experimenting i promise), not pretty!

what it all comes down to: those chips are not made to run that hot for a long period of time, you mightnt think its a problem now, but dont come back in 2 months when its died!

p.s.(maybe the sensor is reading wrong?)
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
Haven't seen anything wrong at all actually; no bugs, artifacts, etc. Runs fine.

After playing Half Life 2 (19200x1200, max details and 2XFSAA) maximum temperature reached was 91. Average was around 80-85 i think under full load. I supposed reapplying the thermal paste helped a little.
I wasn't even talking about you. You're the OP here? 91c under a full load like that is too hot but maybe to be expected (??). The OP's is 87C on idle, and goes to 93C under a benchmark app. And your testimonial is anecdotal and singular - not to mention 7c different. "Likely" means just that - a non-absolute, "likely" but not a certainty. :rolleyes:
 

DoFoT9

macrumors P6
Jun 11, 2007
17,497
27
Singapore
a quick google reveals that the PC version of the card sits at around 75°C under load, 40°C->50°C idle (depending on models etc). the silent models are of course a bit hotter.

the mac version seems to be around those same numbers (why wouldnt it be?)

i could not find any other comparisions for a MP under bootcamp though, so im not sure if this is a common problem or a singular case (GPUs in laptops under bootcamp run hotter, i am thinking this is the same case).