Gruber: Apple TV is Sold at Cost, HomePod at Slight Loss

[Naraxus]

He mentioned it in a podcast briefly and was very non chalant about the whole thing and Rene Ritchie , a guest on the episode, chalked it up to magnified internet outrage and that we don’t really know the figures that are defective it could be a small batch and gruber pretty much agreed

It was very disingenuous. They don’t want ties severed with Apple and it’s obvious

Rene Ritchie is the very epitome of an Apple Fanboy. The dude can't and won't say anything negative about Apple for fear of losing his invites to events and pre-release review units and if he does say anything remotely negative about Apple it's cloaked in non-sequiturs, outright falsehoods and "But Google (etc) does it in a more egregious manner therefore Apple...".

The worst of the 4 Apple Homers by FAR though is Dan Dilger over at Apple Insider. That guy takes fanboyism to a whole new level.

 

[BlargKing]

The chromecast is a lot more stripped down. It doesn’t have an interface, doesn’t have an included remote, doesn’t have voice control without buying another device like a google home mini. It doesn’t have a dedicated App Store with apps built specifically to run on the chromecast. So in that respect the higher price is expected. I think the Apple TV should be compared to something like the fire tv box, or the Nvidia shield tv.

Fair enough, but then something like a Raspberry Pi costs 35$ and can do 1080p streaming, I can't imagine the hardware for 4K being that much more expensive, even with the nice casing and stuff that Apple puts the hardware into.

A Google Chromecast 4K is 90$ CAD, an Apple TV 4K is 240$ CAD. I feel like it can't possibly cost 150$ more for the features it has over the Chromecast, especially since a lot of those features are down more to software than hardware.

 

[thadoggfather]

What is this headline from Gruber intending to accomplish really?

Make people feel bad for apple? Feel encouraged to go out and buy an Apple TV / HomePod ? Bring attention to comparatively neglected product lines? I don’t get it

 

[ilikewhey]

What is this headline from Gruber intending to accomplish really?

Make people feel bad for apple? Feel encouraged to go out and buy an Apple TV / HomePod ? Bring attention to comparatively neglected product lines? I don’t get it

if that was the intention it surely backfired, since nearly every reply is calling this guy a sell out and bs

 

[RickInHouston]

I finally got to try a HomePod today in a non-noisy environment (the Apple Store is not a good place to try it,) and that thing thumps. I was seriously impressed by it.

Still too expensive for me, but I can believe why it costs that.

Does it thump or can you distinguish individual higher and lower bass notes? That separates the men from the boys.

 

[garylapointe]

And didn’t some cable companies give away an AppleTV? They probably worked out a lower cost from Apple, so this would drop their margin even more.

DirecTV Now did a few promos when you prepaid for 3 or 4 months of service (they tried it both ways) and someone is doing it with their streaming for a cable company currently (or soon), I believe. The 3 month deal at DTV Now cost $105, so it was a bargain if you needed one.

 

[iSayuSay]

Is this true? At the Apple store in london I was told I could not just airplay my iTunes library!? It seemed beyond ridiculous but that's what the Apple employee told me. He said it doesn't have airplay.

Well seems like a terrible, false information from an Apple employee. HomePod can be used for AirPlaying any audio content off your iTunes, iOS and Mac devices. But AirPlay is really sluggish compared to native Apple Music playback.

There's 2 seconds delay between pressing playback button and actual response on HomePod, except for Apple Music. And there's also battery drain concern when Airplaying through iPhone or iPad.

It works okay as an AirPlay speaker, just not as convenient or efficient as built in playback.

 

[Baymowe335]

I agree with you, Siri does pretty well on my HomePod at voice recognition. Where I see the biggest difference in "intelligence" between Siri and Alexa is in understanding a question then finding and communicating an appropriate response. I've asked Alexa numerous, factual questions (heights of mountains, actors in movies, dates of historic events, etc.) and Alexa usually provides a correct, spoken response within a couple of seconds. When I ask those type of questions of Siri, I sometimes get a correct spoken answer but more often I will get "Here is what I found on the web" on the screen of my iPhone or words to the effect of "I can't do that on this device".

It just seems Alexa is better at parsing the words it recognizes to get to the intent of the question being asked, then understanding the information it finds well enough to provide me with a succinct response rather than just giving me a website that MIGHT contain the answer.

I think some of this is anecdotal, but in general, Amazon is collecting far more data than Apple. You would expect Amazon and Google to perhaps be better at this since they make no qualms about collecting user data.

 

[AppleScruff1]

People here literally think whatever they want regardless of the facts.

Thank goodness this doesn’t apply to you too.

 

[Peperino]

Like Jobs? Who overpriced the iPhone 1?

Steve Jobs, every time they released a new update they usually kept the same price for the new update and then lower the old ones. Especially considering that with time, technology prices are lower, not higher.

Tim Cook, Raised the iPhone almost a 100% in 3-4 period.
Macbook Pro 30%
Macbook Air 20%
Mac Mini 70% (using exactly the same 4 year old case).

And most of them with very little innovation.

 

[Baymowe335]

Thank goodness this doesn’t apply to you too.

Most of my counterpoints are backed by items from Apple’s financials and other verifiable facts. I try not to speculate and give and today data as my primary proof.
[doublepost=1549166778][/doublepost]

Steve Jobs, every time they released a new update they usually kept the same price for the new update and then lower the old ones. Especially considering that with time, technology prices are lower, not higher.

Tim Cook, Raised the iPhone almost a 100% in 3-4 period.
Macbook Pro 30%
Macbook Air 20%
Mac Mini 70% (using exactly the same 4 year old case).

And most of them with very little innovation.

The Xr is $750 and the iPhone 6 (4 years ago) started at $649.

Explain the iPhone price increase math you’re using. The iPhone 6 isn’t comparable to the XS Max and it’s still not 100% more.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Purely nonsense just stated as fact, no data.

 

[I7guy]

Steve Jobs, every time they released a new update they usually kept the same price for the new update and then lower the old ones. Especially considering that with time, technology prices are lower, not higher.

Tim Cook, Raised the iPhone almost a 100% in 3-4 period.
Macbook Pro 30%
Macbook Air 20%
Mac Mini 70% (using exactly the same 4 year old case).

And most of them with very little innovation.

Absolutely false with regards to iPhones. I gathered the msrp of models in a prior post, starting from the iPhone 1. The exception was the iPhone 8+ was slightly less than the iPhone 7+.

And your post has a falseism. Over time old tech gets cheaper that’s is true, new tech generally is more expensive. (An example is oled, tech around since 1989 is more expensive to manufacture than LCD)

 

[lunarworks]

Does it thump or can you distinguish individual higher and lower bass notes? That separates the men from the boys.

We played Major Lazer and the Rolling Stones, and it performed quite well on both of them. It wasn't an intimate enough environment to hear the detail, but nothing was muddy.

 

[bobmepp]

Gruber: "Apple can do no wrong."

You don't read Gruber much, do you? He regularly, and in sometimes very cutting language, critiques Apple. Yes, he is pro-Apple. So am I. What's wrong with that? He doesn't try to hide it.
[doublepost=1549168379][/doublepost]

Yeah, it's a little annoying sometimes. I also noticed that anytime someone tries to jump into a deeper discussion about Android or windows, he shuts it down. Like damn dude, apple isn't the only company in the world that makes good products.

He is appropriately avoiding the interminable and pointless Android vs. Apple or Microsoft vs. Apple debates, which generate nearly 100% heat, and nearly 0% light. I'm amazed that anyone bothers to engage in such debates. Besides, it's his show.

 

[sidewinder3000]

Gruber (whom I like) is a PR arm of Apple. He's on their "A" list. Whatever "rumors" he reveals have received the golden stamp of approval by Apple Markting. Sorry, but I just don't buy it that he has a "secret bird" trickling him secrets. That bird is probably Phil himself.

You are literally just making stuff up. John Gruber is often very critical of Apple, sometimes in excruciating detail, and is not the type of person that a corporate PR department would launder things through. The truth is, you have no idea who his contact is. If you ever listened to one of his WWDC podcasts, you can tell that Phil Schiller is not his informant. They have a cordial, but formal relationship that is fairly obvious.
[doublepost=1549169213][/doublepost]

That “fixed it for you” thing was funny the first time someone used it, maybe sort of funny the next 100 times, but now after it’s been regurgitated five billion times it’s neither original nor funny.
[doublepost=1549069778][/doublepost]

Thanks. I was hoping some anonymous Internet forum poster could confirm whether a well-known and reputable journalist’s latest work is credible.

Thank you.

 

[kenosecon]

Really sad to see all these haters who can’t differentiate between gold and brass. If you wanna be a hater go to machaters.com this page is for us fans.

And all the article says is true. Apple tv has always been a little hobbie for apple. You don’t charge money for hobbies.

HomePod is an experiment for greater usages in the future bu to sell it at loss is not good for business. They probably need the databases of people usign it by voice commands.

 

[ipponrg]

Most of my counterpoints are backed by items from Apple’s financials and other verifiable facts. I try not to speculate and give and today data as my primary proof.

I'm sure Tim Cook would be extremely proud of your endeavors. The numbers provided in financials says everything because clearly there is no such thing as grey lined facts.
[doublepost=1549174337][/doublepost]

I finally got to try a HomePod today in a non-noisy environment (the Apple Store is not a good place to try it,) and that thing thumps. I was seriously impressed by it.

Still too expensive for me, but I can believe why it costs that.

I tried the Apple HomePod in a rather sparsely filled environment. The thing does seriously thump, which is not a good thing to me. Usually when it thumps like this, the mids are heavily drowned. It's great for rap or your electronic music, but it was terrible for the alternative rock/punk music genres. I can see how someone with Beats could graduate to this for their home setup though.

 

[PickUrPoison]

Steve Jobs, every time they released a new update they usually kept the same price for the new update and then lower the old ones. Especially considering that with time, technology prices are lower, not higher.

Tim Cook, Raised the iPhone almost a 100% in 3-4 period.
Macbook Pro 30%
Macbook Air 20%
Mac Mini 70% (using exactly the same 4 year old case).

And most of them with very little innovation.

You’re mis-remembering most of your price increases.

1) For instance in 2013 the 5s was $649/749/849 for 16/32/64GB. The XR is $749/799/899 for 64/128/256GB. That’s not an increase of almost 100%.

2) I’m not sure what year you’re going back to with MBP, when was the 30% increase?

3) Yes, MBA went from $999 to $1,199, and you might argue that the new model isn’t “worth it”. Others would say they wish they’d had a $200 optional Retina upgrade 5 years ago, and that they would have gladly chosen it over the low-res, TN display the mini has been saddled with all these years.

4) re: the mini, it’s is true that the cheapest entry level model went up 60%. But it’s not quite as simple as that. Yes, gone are the lower-end configurations (i.e. 4GB RAM, HDD and Fusion drive options) whose mere existence so enraged many mini fans. The base model is now a 8GB/128GB SSD configuration, and at $799 it is $50 higher than the previous (2014) 8GB/128 SSD model at $749.

But that $50 buys a lot compared to the 2014 model, most notably:

—a 3.6GHz 65W desktop-class 8th generation quad core CPU vs. a 1.4GHz 15W mobile 4th gen dual core;

—user-replaceable, socketed RAM that maxes out at 64 GB vs. a max of 16GB of soldered RAM in the 2014; and

—four Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports vs. two Thunderbolt 2 in the previous model. O

There are other upgrades like Bluetooth 5.0, USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps) and HDMI 2.0. Also, the mini now has Apple’s T2 chip. A 10Gbps Ethernet port is available for an additional $100 and a six-core i5 CPU is $300 extra.

Of course you can argue the $799 2018 config isn’t “worth it” compared to its $749 2014 counterpart, or that Apple should have included some lower-end, less expensive options below the new $799 entry level price point.

But others will say those cheap models with inferior specs like 4GB RAM and HDD were severely underpowered and borderline unusable—and should have been dropped years ago.


All in all, I’d say pricing has been fairly steady, with increases generally attributable to technology upgrades. It’s true the minimum “buy-in” point for the cheapest, entry-level base model has increased by $100 for iPhone, $200 for MacBook Air and $300 for Mac mini vs. five years ago, and I’d agree that’s unfortunate for those who can’t afford those increases. But if you look at the value that those price increases brought, I think they’re worth paying those higher prices. You may very well disagree though.

 

[ilikewhey]

Most of my counterpoints are backed by items from Apple’s financials and other verifiable facts. I try not to speculate and give and today data as my primary proof.
[doublepost=1549166778][/doublepost]
The Xr is $750 and the iPhone 6 (4 years ago) started at $649.

Explain the iPhone price increase math you’re using. The iPhone 6 isn’t comparable to the XS Max and it’s still not 100% more.

This is exactly what I’m talking about. Purely nonsense just stated as fact, no data.

i think hes applying to 6+ to iphone xs max, which would make sense for the math.
[doublepost=1549178093][/doublepost]

You’re mis-remembering most of your price increases.

1) For instance in 2013 the 5s was $649/749/849 for 16/32/64GB. The XR is $749/799/899 for 64/128/256GB. That’s not an increase of almost 100%.

2) I’m not sure what year you’re going back to with MBP, when was the 30% increase?

3) Yes, MBA went from $999 to $1,199, and you might argue that the new model isn’t “worth it”. Others would say they wish they’d had a $200 optional Retina upgrade 5 years ago, and that they would have gladly chosen it over the low-res, TN display the mini has been saddled with all these years.

4) re: the mini, it’s is true that the cheapest entry level model went up 60%. But it’s not quite as simple as that. Yes, gone are the lower-end configurations (i.e. 4GB RAM, HDD and Fusion drive options) whose mere existence so enraged many mini fans. The base model is now a 8GB/128GB SSD configuration, and at $799 it is $50 higher than the previous (2014) 8GB/128 SSD model at $749.

But that $50 buys a lot compared to the 2014 model, most notably:

—a 3.6GHz 65W desktop-class 8th generation quad core CPU vs. a 1.4GHz 15W mobile 4th gen dual core;

—user-replaceable, socketed RAM that maxes out at 64 GB vs. a max of 16GB of soldered RAM in the 2014; and

—four Thunderbolt 3/USB-C ports vs. two Thunderbolt 2 in the previous model. O

There are other upgrades like Bluetooth 5.0, USB 3.1 Gen 2 (10Gbps) and HDMI 2.0. Also, the mini now has Apple’s T2 chip. A 10Gbps Ethernet port is available for an additional $100 and a six-core i5 CPU is $300 extra.

Of course you can argue the $799 2018 config isn’t “worth it” compared to its $749 2014 counterpart, or that Apple should have included some lower-end, less expensive options below the new $799 entry level price point.

But others will say those cheap models with inferior specs like 4GB RAM and HDD were severely underpowered and borderline unusable—and should have been dropped years ago.


All in all, I’d say pricing has been fairly steady, with increases generally attributable to technology upgrades. It’s true the minimum “buy-in” point for the cheapest, entry-level base model has increased by $100 for iPhone, $200 for MacBook Air and $300 for Mac mini vs. five years ago, and I’d agree that’s unfortunate for those who can’t afford those increases. But if you look at the value that those price increases brought, I think they’re worth paying those higher prices. You may very well disagree though.

these upgrades would justify the price if apple was the one who developed them, but the fact of the matter is other companies the one who developed them and apple just integrated them,

for example, my i7 920 i purchased in 2009 was 250 dollars, the i5 9600k is 223 today
my x58 mobo that i spend 230 in 2009, the z390 motherboard that comes with TB3, bluetooth, hdmi, displayport, and gigabyte internet. i purchased it for $156.

the ram upgrade price is the worst of them all, i know apple wants to make a profit but 200usd for 16gb and 600usd for 32gb is a bit over the top considering you can get 32gb ram for 175.

 

[Ramchi]

DirecTV Now did a few promos when you prepaid for 3 or 4 months of service (they tried it both ways) and someone is doing it with their streaming for a cable company currently (or soon), I believe. The 3 month deal at DTV Now cost $105, so it was a bargain if you needed one.

In my place Set Top Box comes with Android TV (Chromecast capable) comes with Bluetooth Capabilities, additional App based remote, expandable storage(USB and SD Card).... This is for FREE with one year ALL channel (HD) subscriptions for $110 Per Annum..... You get 3 Months Netflix promotion, Amazon Prime subscription free since my mobile provider and cable provider are same...

Long live Apple TV

 

[Shanghaichica]

Well seems like a terrible, false information from an Apple employee. HomePod can be used for AirPlaying any audio content off your iTunes, iOS and Mac devices. But AirPlay is really sluggish compared to native Apple Music playback.

There's 2 seconds delay between pressing playback button and actual response on HomePod, except for Apple Music. And there's also battery drain concern when Airplaying through iPhone or iPad.

It works okay as an AirPlay speaker, just not as convenient or efficient as built in playback.

It depends on how quickly Siri responds if you do voice playback. Airplay is quite responsive on my HomePods. If you’re airplaying to your HomePod you are most likely at home or near a power supply (as HomePod requires a power supply) so battery drain shouldn’t be too much of a concern.

 

[PickUrPoison]

i think hes applying to 6+ to iphone xs max, which would make sense for the math.

The 6 Plus was $749/849/949 for 16/64/128GB so the math doesn’t work even compared to the XS Max at $1,099/1,249/1,449 for 64/256/512GB. But really the XR is the equivalent to the 6 Plus, and it’s actually cheaper at $749/799/849 for 64/128/256GB than the 6 Plus.

these upgrades would justify the price if apple was the one who developed them, but the fact of the matter is other companies the one who developed them and apple just integrated them,

for example, my i7 920 i purchased in 2009 was 250 dollars, the i5 9600k is 223 today
my x58 mobo that i spend 230 in 2009, the z390 motherboard that comes with TB3, bluetooth, hdmi, displayport, and gigabyte internet. i purchased it for $156.

the ram upgrade price is the worst of them all, i know apple wants to make a profit but 200usd for 16gb and 600usd for 32gb is a bit over the top considering you can get 32gb ram for 175.

People have been complaining about Apple’s pricing for 30+ years. Yes, they’re expensive. Those that think they’re “worth it” are willing to pay for what they perceive to be a high value product that’s worth the higher price. Others find Windows/Linux meets their needs just as well (or even better) and they’re happy to save some money on the hardware. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

 

[Shanghaichica]

In my place Set Top Box comes with Android TV (Chromecast capable) comes with Bluetooth Capabilities, additional App based remote, expandable storage(USB and SD Card).... This is for FREE with one year ALL channel (HD) subscriptions for $110 Per Annum..... You get 3 Months Netflix promotion, Amazon Prime subscription free since my mobile provider and cable provider are same...

Long live Apple TV

With all due respect I’ve been given an android TV box with a sky subscription as a Christmas gift 2 years ago. The thing was buggy and slow and everything kept buffering. The remote often didn’t respond. Even my husband who was interested in the box gave up on it after a few weeks and we disconnected it and continued using our Apple TVs. The fire TV stick which received the next year from the same person is temprpmental at times but it was still a lot more useable than the android TV box.
[doublepost=1549183398][/doublepost]

The 6 Plus was $749/849/949 for 16/64/128GB so the math doesn’t work even compared to the XS Max at $1,099/1,249/1,449 for 64/256/512GB. But really the XR is the equivalent to the 6 Plus, and it’s actually cheaper at $749/799/849 for 64/128/256GB than the 6 Plus.


People have been complaining about Apple’s pricing for 30+ years. Yes, they’re expensive. Those that think they’re “worth it” are willing to pay for what they perceive to be a high value product that’s worth the higher price. Others find Windows/Linux meets their needs just as well (or even better) and they’re happy to save some money on the hardware. Different strokes for different folks, as the saying goes.

I think that’s what it boils down to at the end of the day. You either pay or you don’t. I do think some of Apple’s devices are priced too high but I still buy them because in the end they are the best devices for me.

 

[waqas]

I wonder if Apple will one day allow Alexa and other assistants to come together. I know we can trigger Google Assistant using the Siri prompt, but it would be nicer for HomePod as well. Never going to happen though ... it’s not like Microsoft, which allows Alexa. May be just buy from assistant agnostic companies

 

[WatchFromAfar]

I don’t care what anyone says, the HomePod is an AMAZING speaker. Siri could use some improvement, but for an audio device, the HomePod is absolutely stellar.

...and I'm sure there are amazing speakers for $1000 too; what's your point?