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thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 1, 2007
15,618
16,447
Is this guy the mouthpiece for Apple or what, when he's not busy going on political rants that have nothing to do with his craft of writing a tech, Apple-centric blog?

https://daringfireball.net/2017/12/iphone_battery_throttling

Let's dissect the many arguments he puts forth that I take immediate issue with

"Basically, Apple is being painted in a damned if they do, damned if they don’t corner"

This isn't true, if a good amount of people on pre-throttle iOS versions do not experience shutdowns on worn batteries. They've been caught with their pants down and are now trying to articulate throttling as "extending a feature" after the fact. Reality distortion fields are down and more vulnerable than ever. Also, it wasn't an option a) to tell people about it after they've verified it through their own scientific research to where its irrefutable, b) do nothing whatsoever. Surely there must be some sorta middle ground that, might not make some people happy, but could be handled way better than this has been -- which is really not at all, and still unresolved and with even more clouds of confusion and prompted questions. It has been suggested to allow people an easy and native iOS way to check battery degradation and/or have a prompt letting people know its time to service their battery (not like they haven't done this with macOS)

"But now Apple faces accusations that they’re deliberately slowing these devices down to convince people to buy new iPhones. The thing to keep in mind is that there is nothing Apple can do about the fact that lithium-ion batteries decline over time."

Why is this just *now* a problem, after a decade of iPhones, all using lithium ion batteries?

And how is it that 6s was the affected unit, but now since they've throttled iPhone 7 on 11.2 moving forward, its affected too. and "other models" so the 8 and X are affected, too? Why give iOS the throttle feature later in its software life and not upfront with new shipping iOS versions?

since it was just 6s, but now 7, and soon 8/X to get the throttle, does this mean all iPhones 6s onwards are poorly made and have major engineering faults as common practice?

is this common practice for portable consoles too, which coincidentally, rely on lithium ion batteries?
or laptops? or tablets? or androids?

One way or another, older much-used iPhones are going to suffer in some way.

except there are people experiencing problems in their first year of usage, and some very shortly after that. I have a 2009 3gs that still works fine, and as best I can tell, does not throttle. Same with a heavily degraded 4s I got off craigslist. Anecdotal, to be sure, but I had a 5 with a quite worn battery, and hung out on older iOS for jaiilbreak, and shut downs or throttle was never an issue. same with SE, on 10.2, but still with a good capacity battery. Same with my 7+ on 10.1.1 with 85% capacity and 500ish charges. Im also not really thrilled that after a year and a month or two, I'm sitting pretty at 5% above the threshold for throttling should I ever update iOS on it. Very reassuring future ahead, for a device I paid $879 for.

I agree with Panzarino, though, that Apple should do a better job communicating about this:

"Better job communicating" -- oh, you mean like communicating it at all? Not *AFTER THE FACT*

He's quoting someone but agrees:

The point at which iOS will tell you that your battery has gone to hell is currently very, very conservative. Perhaps this can be set to be more aggressive. Then, of course, users will complain that Apple is cash grabbing on battery replacements but humans will remain humans.

cash grabbing is gas lighting people into thinking they need a new phone, when they might just need a battery replacement. But I guess "humans will remain humans" -- wut?

An official battery replacement from Apple is only $79, and free under AppleCare.

So $79 for a battery is now "only" $79? and something that's needed to restore original performance of the cpu? Apple could charge a lot more, but still hardly a deal.

"Free" under "AppleCare" -- does this even need to be broken down?

Also, I've heard varying stories that even if you want to pay for a battery out of pocket, but doesn't meet the diagnostic guidelines (when one still has throttling), they refuse to replace it even for money. That puts consumers in a tough spot, to boss their way into paying for something they should be able to pay for, without being met with any resistance whatsoever. especially after this story has become huge. If this is common practice, this is an obvious form of deception and bullying ("well my iPad reads your battery is fine even though I see your throttled performance") a customer into a corner of giving up, getting a new iPhone, or going to the dark side of android.

If more users with older iPhones knew that replacing the battery could restore the original performance, they might happily opt for that.

"might happily opt" -- yes, this is the entire reason throttle gate is a gate. They weren't given options, due to lack of transparency

I’ve said the following before, but I’ll say it again: Apple does not purposefully cripple older devices to encourage users to buy new devices.

He has personally no way to verify this, its merely his sentiment. Apple had to have known without people having enough information, that upgrading because their old phone has slowed to a crawl, is a common reason people upgrade/justify their upgrade. It is a common perception on this board that even one major iOS leap can introduce enough features that modern hardware can't keep up any longer. I call BS, outright+all around.

(he's quoting himself here from iOS 7 days)
If older iPhones suffer upon being updated to iOS 7 — getting slower, or worse battery life, or losing Wi-Fi — to such a degree that the users conclude they now need to buy a new phone, would not the most likely and logical result be that it would inspire many of them to switch to Android (or Windows Phone, or anything) rather than to buy another iPhone?

Has he looked at macrumors forums? For many people, they will still get X-S or X-2 or X+ next year, fully knowing this throttle thing is a thing. Apple is abusing customers' loyalty, and though it may not be the tipping point for all, it certainly will be for some.

the (or Windows Phone, or anything) parantheses cracks me up. Oh yeah, windows phone. big market share, lots of apps. And the "or anything" option, because there's always a good flip phone or Jitterbug out there for everyone.

If your car breaks down after just a few years, are you not more likely to replace it with a different brand? To posit that Apple customers are somehow different, that when they feel screwed by Apple their response is to go back for more, is “Cult of Mac” logic — the supposition that most Apple customers are irrational zealots or trend followers who just mindlessly buy anything with an Apple logo on it. The truth is the opposite: Apple’s business is making customers happy, and keeping them happy. They make products for discriminating people who have higher standards and less tolerance for design flaws or problems.

Apple does have a cult-like following, the ecosystem keeps people attached despite pains and lack of options (if one doesn't like android), and since iPhone's popularity, their market isn't entirely "discriminating people with higher standards" some people see zero design flaws in iOS 11 whatsoever. Are you telling me every one and their mother, and grandmother, has "discrimination for higher standards and less tolerance for design flaws"?

And at the engineering level, I’ve heard from multiple Apple sources over the years that even if such a dictate were issued from on high, it would result in a revolt. If some shortsighted senior executive demanded that an iOS software update render older iPhone hardware artificially slow, the engineers tasked with the job would almost certainly object. Even if some unscrupulous engineer were willing to implement such a booby trap, how would they keep other engineers on the team from noticing it, fixing it, and figuring out who was responsible? Something along the lines of “if (deviceAgeInYears > 2) { [self _runF****Slow]; }” is going to stick out in code review after being checked into the iOS source code.

Lol a revolt-- people placing principles over having to put food on the table. Where is the revolt for outspoken Tim assuming 100% of his employees are in lockstep with his pol views every time he sends out some memo about reactions to US policies, and oppose the president at every turn? Maybe most, being Silicon Valley, but definitely not 100%. Statistically impossible. These outliers keep their mouth shut, and collect their paychecks. They don't wanna get into a pissing contest over pol when they were paid to do tech.

Gruber's evidence that this isn't malicious, is that it doesn't have expletives explicitly outlined in the code to internally give a tip of the hat to screwing over customers. Gimme a break.

Would they resign in protest if their objections were ignored? Yes, actually, they would.

Who is this unnamed, "they"? I would argue "they" wouldn't, since we don't know who he's talking about whatsoever and because economics are usually a big factor in everything.

Given that Uber found engineers willing to create a “god view” monitoring system that allowed employees to spy on celebrities, politicians, and ex-boyfriends and girlfriends, it’s not hard to believe Apple could find engineers willing to make apps run slower on two-year-old iPhones. Such cynicism is understandable, but Apple is not Uber.

Apple is not Uber. there you have it. Close the books, stop discussing throttle gate, and wait in line for the next iPhone.
 
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Hal~9000

macrumors 68020
Sep 13, 2014
2,162
2,093
Geez... and here I thought the TechCrunch article was rife w/ excuses for Apple’s shady behavior and overall defeatist tone trying to make it sound like what Apple did was ok (it’s not), but this guy Gruber takes the cake on being some Apple mouthpiece that’s happy to bend over and be mistreated by ****ty corporate behavior :rolleyes:
 
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JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
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What a laughable piece of drivel.

"Apple does not purposefully cripple older devices to encourage users to buy new devices. Nor would it be in their long-term interest to do so."

Everything Apple does from the iPhone Upgrade Program to Jony Ive dismissing the iPhone 7 design encourages consumers to upgrade.

Ever see that annoying popup message? - iCloud Storage is Full
If Apple invested even 10% of their coding efforts towards warning people their batteries needed replacement, this wouldn't be a problem. Apple knows how to do warning popups with iCloud. But they have amnesia when it comes to battery warnings and prefer to slow down devices instead.
 
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C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,460
What a laughable piece of drivel.

"Apple does not purposefully cripple older devices to encourage users to buy new devices. Nor would it be in their long-term interest to do so."

Everything Apple does from the iPhone Upgrade Program to Jony Ive dismissing the iPhone 7 design encourages consumers to upgrade.

Ever see that annoying popup message? - iCloud Storage is Full
If Apple invested even 10% of their coding efforts towards warning people their batteries needed replacement, this wouldn't be a problem. Apple knows how to do warning popups with iCloud. But they have amnesia when it comes to battery warnings and prefer to slow down devices instead.
How does the upgrade program say anything about Apple doing something malicious to make people's devices not work well so that they would be more likely to upgrade?

As for a battery message? Would many people not find that malicious in a sense as well that Apple would be telling them their device isn't as good and they need to give Apple more money to make it work fine again?
 

JPack

macrumors G5
Mar 27, 2017
12,893
24,429
How does the upgrade program say anything about Apple doing something malicious to make people's devices not work well so that they would be more likely to upgrade?

As for a battery message? Would many people not find that malicious in a sense as well that Apple would be telling them their device isn't as good and they need to give Apple more money to make it work fine again?

It has nothing to do with malice.

The author of the article insults the intelligence of its readers by suggesting Apple has nothing to gain by crippling the performance of old devices. Apple is a for-profit company that relies on consumers replacing old devices. He might as well suggest oil companies have nothing to gain by encouraging SUV sales.

Don’t try to find excuses for why Apple can’t make a battery pop up message. Do you think automakers are also malicious when all their vehicles have warning indicator lights on the dashboard?
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
51,392
19,460
It has nothing to do with malice.

The author of the article insults the intelligence of its readers by suggesting Apple has nothing to gain by crippling the performance of old devices. Apple is a for-profit company that relies on consumers replacing old devices. He might as well suggest oil companies have nothing to gain by encouraging SUV sales.

Don’t try to find excuses for why Apple can’t make a battery pop up message. Do you think automakers are also malicious when all their vehicles have warning indicator lights on the dashboard?
It seems like the implication that was made wasn't that there wouldn't be something to gain from doing something malicious (like purposefully crippling devices), but that because it would be something malicious that would be involved for that gain, that the author doesn't believe that Apple would do it that way and it wouldn't be in their overall interest do it.

For example, as in someone who doesn't need to do it can still decide to start robbing people, but, even putting morals and ethics aside, for most that wouldn't be in their overall interest as it would be unnecessary risk of something that would threaten their well-being.

Not sure where any excuses were being provided or looked for. Questions were simply asked in relation to comments that were posted.
 
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benz240

macrumors regular
Dec 25, 2008
201
294
Excellent dissection of Gruber's article. I was actually kind of surprised to hear him defending Apple after he was so salty about not getting a review iPhone X unit.
 
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Shanghaichica

macrumors G5
Apr 8, 2013
14,656
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UK
He is correct and this applies to all OEM’s. Android OEMS are slated for not offering updates and Apple are slated for giving older devices updates which compromises them or has limited new features.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,717
Is this guy the mouthpiece for Apple
There was a reason why Apple invited him to Cupertino earlier this year to discuss the plight of the Pro machines. He tends to be pro apple. I've seen other blog sites bend over backwards making excuses for apple saying they did the right thing. I'm not worked up about it, they have their opinion, what matters is how this will shake out for apple. Lawsuits are just the beginning. This has the potential to damage the brand, and apple needs to tread carefully. Just my $.02
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,717
Gruber and Ritchie are two biggest apple apologists... thats how they earn invitations to apple events and get some insider info... see no difference between them and samsung paid reviewers... same **** just different brands
iMore is already doing the logical gymnastics in justifying the actions. I can't wait to MacBreak weekly next week to see how Ritchie defends apple on this.
 

macfacts

macrumors 601
Oct 7, 2012
4,986
5,935
Cybertron
... As for a battery message? Would many people not find that malicious in a sense as well that Apple would be telling them their device isn't as good and they need to give Apple more money to make it work fine again?

I have never heard people complain their car dealer is a money stealing crook when their car check engine oil light goes on.

What makes you think people would be mad at Apple if a pop up message said the battery health was bad?
 
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thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 1, 2007
15,618
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Lawsuits are just the beginning. This has the potential to damage the brand, and apple needs to tread carefully. Just my $.02

I think it already has done a lot of damage to tarnish the blind trust customers have placed in apple without getting burned... until now.

Sure they may be click bait-y articles “Apple slows your device to a crawl” type headlines, but when people have personally experienced it themselves, it’s tough for them to immediately write it off as mere sensationalism and nothing more. Especially when apple calls adding this throttling to 7 with 11.2 “extending the feature”

Funny I didn’t see any mention of this “feature” in 10.2.1 changelog for 6s nor 11.2 for 7. Must be one of those “features” Apple isn’t too proud to advertise. But yet have the arrogance to say it will be coming to “other” devices soon. Is this something I should be excited about, or something?
 

Kmart9419

macrumors 6502
May 4, 2011
292
335
Excellent dissection of Gruber's article. I was actually kind of surprised to hear him defending Apple after he was so salty about not getting a review iPhone X unit.
He’s trying to remedy that problem by cozying up to Apple. Makes sense. In this blog, he’s completely bent over.
[doublepost=1514043094][/doublepost]
I have never heard people complain their car dealer is a money stealing crook when their car check engine oil light goes on.

What makes you think people would be mad at Apple if a pop up message said the battery health was bad?
Check engine is scary, mysterious, expensive and potentially dangerous. Change battery light is a piece of cake. U change the battery. Even if you dont, at least you know what the problem is.
 

yegon

macrumors 68040
Oct 20, 2007
3,429
2,027
Gruber lost me in 2016 during the run up to the US election. I’m from the UK, had no horse in that race but his willingness to believe anything that suited his narrative combined with rank dismissal of anything that didn’t, truly confirmed to me that he’s an uncritical disciple, be it politics or Apple. Suffers horribly from cognitive dissonance.

I didn’t mind him up to that point, I was aware of his fawning, sycophantic following of Apple, but occasionally there was some decent insight that would otherwise remain unknown.

I thought he might tone down the political stuff post election but he doubled down on it. I quit FaceBag and Twitter years ago to avoid the utterly misguided binary good/evil knee jerk commentary on events. I deleted his bookmark when I realised he wasn’t letting up.

It’s funny, after seeing this thread, I visited Daring Fireball for the first time in ages. Numerous echo chamber arguments about battery gate, followed by Trump blah blah.

No change there then.

Btw, love, and have, lots of Apple stuff.
 
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KPOM

macrumors P6
Oct 23, 2010
18,228
8,176
There was a reason why Apple invited him to Cupertino earlier this year to discuss the plight of the Pro machines. He tends to be pro apple. I've seen other blog sites bend over backwards making excuses for apple saying they did the right thing. I'm not worked up about it, they have their opinion, what matters is how this will shake out for apple. Lawsuits are just the beginning. This has the potential to damage the brand, and apple needs to tread carefully. Just my $.02
Agreed. Apple has not handled this well. Tim Cook does not have the public persona to pull a Steve Jobs Antennagate response and say “all phones do this,” but the response so far has been inadequate. Of the class action lawsuits, I think the most potential is with the one arguing that Apple is trying to avoid making warranty replacements for batteries. For all the talk about performance, it’s likely that Apple could show it makes little difference in everyday tasks.
[doublepost=1514051058][/doublepost]
I have never heard people complain their car dealer is a money stealing crook when their car check engine oil light goes on.

What makes you think people would be mad at Apple if a pop up message said the battery health was bad?
People realize cars need maintenance but treat consumer products differently.
 

thadoggfather

macrumors P6
Original poster
Oct 1, 2007
15,618
16,447
Gruber lost me in 2016 during the run up to the US election. I’m from the UK, had no horse in that race but his willingness to believe anything that suited his narrative combined with rank dismissal of anything that didn’t, truly confirmed to me that he’s an uncritical disciple, be it politics or Apple. Suffers horribly from cognitive dissonance.

I didn’t mind him up to that point, I was aware of his fawning, sycophantic following of Apple, but occasionally there was some decent insight that would otherwise remain unknown.

I thought he might tone down the political stuff post election but he doubled down on it. I quit FaceBag and Twitter years ago to avoid the utterly misguided binary good/evil knee jerk commentary on events. I deleted his bookmark when I realised he wasn’t letting up.

It’s funny, after seeing this thread, I visited Daring Fireball for the first time in ages. Numerous echo chamber arguments about battery gate, followed by Trump blah blah.

No change there then.

Btw, love, and have, lots of Apple stuff.

It really Is bizarre that he thinks he has some sorta angle as a (predictable, unoriginal, bring nothing new to the table) political commentator like a Don Lemon and can use that interchangeably in his apple/tech blog and have the blog still remain coherent in subject matter and focus

It Has nothing to do with tech at all!

In that regard, He has followed Tim Cook’s indoctrination/inability to not blather over anything and everything policy related, quite well.

That’s ok though. The president can rent free in their heads, 24/7. They are “the resistance”

Except if there’s any real scandals surrounding Apple, a mega corporation that shuns competition and poops on its customer base, regularly, it gets a pass with flying colors. If there’s any faux scandals surrounding the president, and there are many, a new one every day it seems like they are cooking up (pun perhaps intended) even though they don’t stick beyond feeding people’s emotions for a fake temporary feeling of catharsis, and Don’t hold up under scrutiny and facts, they are all very real and worse than you ever could’ve imagined...Until the next “development” making you instantly forget about what they were upset about adamantly but just let fall by the wayside, only the day prior. Oh The irony!



“I get my pol commentary from Gruber” — said no one ever. Even perhaps people who agree with his general stance and maintain the same impressively sustained level of vitriol.
 
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yegon

macrumors 68040
Oct 20, 2007
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It’s bizarre that he thinks he has some sorta angle as a (predictable, unoriginal, bring nothing new to the table) political commentator and can use that interchangeably in his apple/tech blog and have the blog while still coherent in subject matter and focus

It Has nothing to do with tech at all!

In that regard, He has followed Tim Cook’s indoctrination/inability to not blather over anything and everything policy related, quite well.

That’s ok though. The president can rent free in their heads, 24/7. They are “the resistance”

Except if there’s any real scandals surrounding Apple, a mega corporation that shuns competition and poops on its customer base, regularly, it gets a pass. If there’s any faux scandals surrounding the president, and there are many, a new one every day, even though they don’t stick beyond feeding people’s emotions for a fake temporary feeling of catharsis, they are all very real and worse than you ever could’ve imagine. Oh The irony!

Exactly.

I quite enjoyed The Talk Show upto about March ‘16. I remember him saying prior to that how if he was ever to do anything else other than Daring Fireball, it’d be a political blog. If he had done that separately, maybe I’d still visit his current site.

Instead, we got his existing blog permeated with recycled, warmed over fud from like minded people in his friends list, all of whom have exactly zero real life sources.

At least with regard to Apple, he does appear to have real sources.

It’s all a bit sad tbh. I think the same about people’s blogs with equally insular, but polar opposite viewpoints. I’m not being partisan, it’s the hysteria I actively try to avoid.
 
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