Sidebar Sidebar
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

GT Advanced COO: Apple Told Us 'Put On Your Big Boy Pants and Accept the Agreement'

Windlasher said:
OK - So GT didn't like the deal. Why did they sign it?
Click to expand...

Because some meany Apple negotiator questioned their manhood :(

These GTAT execs are idiots. Apple had no reason to want to destroy their company. GTAT either overrepresented what they could do to Apple intentionally, or they weren't listening to their engineers. They were greedy, thought they could gamble and win big, and they lost. Now the SEC is investigating them for insider trading.

The only victims here are the GTAT employees who had terrible leadership and Apple who made a deal with a company that couldn't deliver. These GTAT execs will hopefully never work in business again.
 
From what it sounds like to me, GTAT was a small company producing limited amounts of sapphire crystal with some pretty cool tech before Apple came along. Apple wanted a sapphire supplier but needed the expertise as well as high volume production. The deal structure looked like Apple would debt finance GTAT with oversight covenants to protect their investment without guaranteeing sales of the sapphire boules to make it so GTAT could sell to competitors if Apple didn't take the product. GTAT would then be one of the only producers of sapphire crystal in high volumes in the world and have a larger business as well as supply Apple with product in an Apple facility. Where they went wrong is possibly overstating the technical specifications of producing said sapphire crystal in large quantities as well as larger boules than normal. This caused a chain reaction activating protective covenants in the debt structure and caused GTAT to not operate normally and creating an unfeasable repayment schedule. GTAT just bit off more than they could chew, it also seems like they weren't confident that their tech could mass produce sapphire crystal at the scale that Apple needed. I would say that they just weren't ready and their management pushed the contract with Apple not understanding that they would need to scale up and communicate what is actually needed in terms of equipment.
 
faustfire said:
It always amazes me how much people will defend a companies unethical practices just because they like their products.

Fun fact, Apple is not your friend, they make great products that you enjoy but would not think twice about putting you and your whole family into the ground to add .0001% to their profit margin.
Click to expand...

There's nothing unethical about what Apple did, here. It was GTAT executives who were unethical in their misrepresenting their company's capabilities to Apple, and signing an agreement they knew they couldn't follow through on, either because of intentional greed or incompetence.

The SEC is currently investigating these same GTAT executives for insider trading. Their lawyers should really tell them to stop talking to the press, because they're only digging themselves in deeper trouble. They're basically admitting they committed fraud in their agreement with Apple, and telling everyone they knew the deal was bad for their company while they were selling off their company shares.
 
spectrumfox said:
Uhh, but Apple did change the agreement.
Click to expand...

Until papers are signed, there is no agreement. The agreement that was signed and, you know, agreed to, was not changed. What the guy is really saying is that GTAT believed a deal with Apple would be more lucrative than the deal Apple actually wanted to make, and GTAT signed anyway knowing they weren't getting the deal they originally wanted.

In negotiation, all kinds of things are said, ideas are floated, but the thing you're agreeing to is what's on paper, not what you imagine a deal might turn out to be. Apple may or may not have said they wanted a bigger more favorable deal for GTAT, but that is irrelevant. If GTAT wasn't happy with what was on paper above the signature line, they shouldn't have signed.

But even assuming this GTAT exec is telling the truth, that Apple was initially prepared for a more GTAT-favorable deal, it's quite possible Apple took a close look at how GTAT does business, and how bad their leaders are, and decided that for Apple's protection they needed to minimize Apple's own risk in dealing with such a shady company, hence the Apple-favorable terms.
 
mercuryjones said:
I'm well aware of it being used on just about every other device out there. What I meant is, if Apple had not used it on the iPhone, WOULD it have been so prevalent on every other device? By Apple pushing for it to be ready for the launch of the iPhone, it gave Corning a huge PR win and pushed for everyone to use it at that time.
Click to expand...

Yes it still would have been used by everyone simply because it's good and Corning is a famous company. I think kdarling said that gorilla glass was being developed for the RAZR originally. If you think that supplying for Apple will give you a PR boost then how come hardly anyone has heard of Japan Display Inc? In fact I've read comments on forums where Apple super fans credit Apple with other companies achievements *cough* A4 based on hummingbird *cough*.
 
mrxak said:
Because some meany Apple negotiator questioned their manhood :(

These GTAT execs are idiots. Apple had no reason to want to destroy their company.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Why would a company vest close to $500 Million into something they seek to destroy. Unless of course GTAT was just about to release a gtPhoneX and a GTBookPro which would immediately cause all all apple sales to stall the minute it was released. But they were not.

GT Was not able to deliver what was aimed for. So instead of investing (loosing) another $500 Million to accomplish perhaps yet another failure, Apple pulls the plug. And while the might well loose a big part of the initial investment, pulling the plug at this point is Damage Control which prevents the tumour from spreading. If GTAT had worn the same pants Apple wore, this thread here would not exist.
 
Why do some posters have to go to some "dark" analysis on this.

No - Apple didn't knowingly or on purpose try to ruin a company. I also don't think that GT ENTERED into the agreement with designs to screw Apple over or that they didn't think they could deliver, etc.

What happened seems "simple" enough. There were specific terms that weren't met which is likely a "fault" of both parties to varying degrees and that led to the current situation.

I don't think Apple intentionally tried to ruin or screw over a company. They made a deal that was completely in their best interest. That's their job. GT did the same thing. Both seemingly failed to make a partnership that worked as it was defined.
 
mrxak said:
Squiller later went on to say that Apple "double dared us to make the deal", and at that point GT Advanced felt they had no choice but to sign the contract or else they'd "look like a bunch of weenies" in front of that girl they kinda liked.
Click to expand...

Everyone knows that you can back down at any time, until the dreaded triple dog dare is thrown out.
 
It appears as if GT chose its COO and CEO poorly.

There is a difference between accepting reasonable risk and agreeing to a contract that GT had to know (or should have known) it would not be able to meet, and that the various clauses would likely result in a bankruptcy filing, as happened.
 
25ghosts said:
Exactly. Why would a company vest close to $500 Million into something they seek to destroy. Unless of course GTAT was just about to release a gtPhoneX and a GTBookPro which would immediately cause all all apple sales to stall the minute it was released. But they were not.

GT Was not able to deliver what was aimed for. So instead of investing (loosing) another $500 Million to accomplish perhaps yet another failure, Apple pulls the plug. And while the might well loose a big part of the initial investment, pulling the plug at this point is Damage Control which prevents the tumour from spreading. If GTAT had worn the same pants Apple wore, this thread here would not exist.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. It is amazing the view points people have about this situation. Anything from Apple did it on purpose to Apple should buy this company! In all honestly Apple did the right thing and cut their losses. We shouldn't forget Apple was competent in having a backup plan on a secondary supplier. We didn't see a delay on the launc and relation to strict timetables and trying to have ample inventory for the launch. Apple foresaw the possible risk in this scenario and protected themselves in the NDA. With all the actions of GTAT and executives making unprofessional statements, clearly shows amateur hour and pop show going on with GTAT.
 
mrxak said:
Any first year business student knows about the sunk cost fallacy. If a deal is bad, you don't do the deal, it doesn't matter how much money you put into making your company look attractive for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but unfortunately GT is not a first year MBA, but lives in the real world.

Sharp ended up in a similar situation with Apple about screens a while back. The bad Sharp deal scared a lot of potential vendors, this is why Apple was apparently having a tough time getting someone bigger to provide sapphire and ended up with GT.

GT may be many things, but don't for a second assume that Apple plays "nice." Apple is just like Walmart, although both companies are finding out that if you push too many smaller entities into a corner, at some point only few want to play with you. Any second year MBA knows this.... :D
 
Last edited:
Never one to pass up an opportunity, Apple takes condescending to a new level, then feigns shock when the blogosphere pushes back.
 
mercuryjones said:
Never caring that there are two sides to every story, the blogosphere latches on to the Anti-Apple side and rides it into the ground.
Click to expand...

Or you know -people "blindly" defend Apple because there's no way they could have done anything wrong.

It really does go both ways on the blogosphere/forumsphere...
 
samcraig said:
Or you know -people "blindly" defend Apple because there's no way they could have done anything wrong.

It really does go both ways on the blogosphere/forumsphere...
Click to expand...

Oh, really... I see a 100 to 1 bashing of Apple in the lightly moderated "bloggosphere" which is comprise of many dozens of sites that are either dedicated to Android, or tech sites with many Android modders that seem to think Apple users are all technological morons. The tone is extraordinarily juvenile despite the fact most of these commenters are undoubtedly in their 20s.

It does take some kind a massive ego to come here day in and day and just then comment on our fervor at "defending" Apple, when you come in a Apple forum and negatively comment just about everything like it was some mission from some random tech divinity to straighten up us poor lost souls.

I actually rarely see anyone "defend" Apple anywhere but on the few site that's should at least reasonably have a majority of Apple users like this one.

BTW, you are so much on the anti-Apple train in all your comments that even a neutral stance would be seen as "defending" by you.

The massive kerfuffle about supposed bending that became a frenesi here... Are you going to tell me that the Android gang foaming at the mouth here were rational beings and we should just take that crap for weeks without answering back? Your cohort will certainly not apologize for the outrageous over the top antics of those few weeks... Where are those people now. Hiding in shame under a rock I hope.
 
Keirasplace said:
Oh, really... I see a 100 to 1 bashing of Apple in the lightly moderated "bloggosphere" which is comprise of many dozens of sites that are either dedicated to Android, or tech sites with many Android modders that seem to think Apple users are all technological morons. The tone is extraordinarily juvenile despite the fact most of these commenters are undoubtedly in their 20s.

It does take some kind a massive ego to come here day in and day and just then comment on our fervor at "defending" Apple, when you come in a Apple forum and negatively comment just about everything like it was some mission from some random tech divinity to straighten up us poor lost souls.

I actually rarely see anyone "defend" Apple anywhere but on the few site that's should at least reasonably have a majority of Apple users like this one.

BTW, you are so much on the anti-Apple train in all your comments that even a neutral stance would be seen as "defending" by you.

The massive kerfuffle about supposed bending that became a frenesi here... Are you going to tell me that the Android gang foaming at the mouth here were rational beings and we should just take that crap for weeks without answering back? Your cohort will certainly not apologize for the outrageous over the top antics of those few weeks... Where are those people now. Hiding in shame under a rock I hope.
Click to expand...

Well said. Apple hating is the thing to do now. Go on any even slightly positive Apple article on any website, and just read the comments. Very rare to see anyone defending Apple, as the majority of comments are either years old memes ("you're holding it wrong") or diatribes against how Apple is the worst company ever. Or just "Apple sucks."

And as for a negative Apple article, well, the floodgates are opened wide on that, and everyone jumps on the bandwagon to attack. If you even remotely suggest that it's blown out of proportion or say let's wait to see how Apple responds, you are quickly drowned out by the "stop defending Apple" group.
 
mercuryjones said:
Never caring that there are two sides to every story, the blogosphere latches on to the Anti-Apple side and rides it into the ground.
Click to expand...

You're 100% correct. It's a product of Apples exaggerated hype and years of acting like superior beings. They've created their very own reputation as a snobby, polarizing, elitist company.
 
iososx said:
You're 100% correct. It's a product of Apples exaggerated hype and years of acting like superior beings. They've created their very own reputation as a snobby, polarizing, elitist company.
Click to expand...

Funny, but I never got that attitude form Apple over the years. I did however, get the sense of that attitude from the community that simply hated Apple for whatever reason of the day. That, as a company, Apple was snobby, as if a company can acquire human attributes.
Now, let's talk about those people that try to attribute that trait to Apple - you want to talk about snobby, elitist and patronizing? Just try and have a conversation with a group of them about why you prefer Apple products. That's a discussion I don't plan on having again, because they simply feed off each other and repeat the same argument over and over again.
 
Keirasplace said:
Oh, really... I see a 100 to 1 bashing of Apple in the lightly moderated "bloggosphere" which is comprise of many dozens of sites that are either dedicated to Android, or tech sites with many Android modders that seem to think Apple users are all technological morons. The tone is extraordinarily juvenile despite the fact most of these commenters are undoubtedly in their 20s.

It does take some kind a massive ego to come here day in and day and just then comment on our fervor at "defending" Apple, when you come in a Apple forum and negatively comment just about everything like it was some mission from some random tech divinity to straighten up us poor lost souls.

I actually rarely see anyone "defend" Apple anywhere but on the few site that's should at least reasonably have a majority of Apple users like this one.

BTW, you are so much on the anti-Apple train in all your comments that even a neutral stance would be seen as "defending" by you.

The massive kerfuffle about supposed bending that became a frenesi here... Are you going to tell me that the Android gang foaming at the mouth here were rational beings and we should just take that crap for weeks without answering back? Your cohort will certainly not apologize for the outrageous over the top antics of those few weeks... Where are those people now. Hiding in shame under a rock I hope.
Click to expand...

I think the problem with some posters is they us vs them mentality. Quite honestly I don't put myself in that category because I love and use various tech from various manufacturers. My cohorts? Wow. I use Linux, iOS, OSX, Windows as well. The right tool for the right job. Are you suggesting that people on this forum have been "bullied" and aren't going to take it anymore? I find that comment odd personally.

Some apparently take what corporations do a bit too personally as evident on this and many other threads.
 
cashxx said:
So the CEO, COO or whoever doesn't know how to negotiate! Sounds like they shouldn't have been in that position and never have that title again if they can't handle it.
Click to expand...

I don't know if you can say that they don't know how to negotiate. They saw an opportunity and decided to take the risk. The risk is that things could go really wrong. But the potential upside was also huge. They saw dollar signs and got excited, thinking they could handle whatever was thrown at them. Many, many people would've done the same in their shoes.
 
mercuryjones said:
Funny, but I never got that attitude form Apple over the years. I did however, get the sense of that attitude from the community that simply hated Apple for whatever reason of the day. That, as a company, Apple was snobby, as if a company can acquire human attributes.
Now, let's talk about those people that try to attribute that trait to Apple - you want to talk about snobby, elitist and patronizing? Just try and have a conversation with a group of them about why you prefer Apple products. That's a discussion I don't plan on having again, because they simply feed off each other and repeat the same argument over and over again.
Click to expand...

Those who know the truth about Apple understand. Why take it personally, denial will make you happy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.
Top Bottom
Back