Guess Apple forgot about PUSH!

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by slapppy, Dec 16, 2008.

  1. slapppy macrumors 65816

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    #1
    Well, I guess Apple forgot about "Push Notification". Hasn't been mentioned since SJ himself said it would not make it in Sept. :(

    Check around and haven't heard any news at all with this much required service.
     
  2. Bryan Bowler macrumors 68040

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  3. bbplayer5 macrumors 68030

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    #3
    Apple doesnt have push anyways. Its just a constant server connection asking for new stuff. Its basically begging, not pushing.

    Its a crock of you ask me. Does nothing good but drain the hell out of your battery all day. If you care about push, get a Blackberry. They hold the patent to true push.
     
  4. slapppy thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #4
    LOL... thats not PUSH. Not real PUSH. Besides I'm talking about Push Notification Services for all the developers to take advantage of. Without it, they are seriously hampering development for the iPhone. At least competitive products that would compete with other SmartPhones out there that has PUSH or background services enabled.
     
  5. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #5

    Wow, 100% of the replies have no idea what you're talking about, slappy.

    At any rate, they didn't "forget" about it. They haven't been able to make it work right. I'm sure they're still working on it. Just because they aren't calling you with daily status reports doesn't mean they aren't working on it.
     
  6. paulsalter macrumors 68000

    paulsalter

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    #6
    think we would need better batteries for this

    push email kills the battery as it is, imagine if all the apps had background services, connecting to servers all the time

    battery might last 30 mins
     
  7. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #7
    Um, that's the opposite of Push.

    Push would be the server connecting to the phone ONLY when it had somethnig to send. In other words, not "all the time."

    You've just described a 'fetch' system.
     
  8. markgamber macrumors 6502

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    #8
    LOL....wow, what a shock! Hasn't stopped 'em from posting tho. :rolleyes:
     
  9. paulsalter macrumors 68000

    paulsalter

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    #9
    Thought that was how push email worked on the phone, it is a while since i read about it

    iphone connects to server for mail
    keeps a connection open waiting to be told if email is there
    after so long if there nothing it times out and reconnects
    then repeat

    It has been a long day so might be thinking of something else :eek:
     
  10. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #10
    1 - This describes how the iPhone mail works with most mail servers. They don't call that 'push' however.

    2 - I THINK (not sure) that this is not how it works with MobileMe. Apple DOES call this push, but I can't tell you if that's an accurate description. If it works like this, they're wrong, but if it works "right" they're not wrong.

    BUT...

    3 - Neither 1 or 2 matter, because he's talking about apps, not e-mail. In the case of the application push service it will work the way I described (if it ever works, that is).
     
  11. paulsalter macrumors 68000

    paulsalter

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    #11
    Cheers for clarifying
     
  12. nickspohn macrumors 68040

    nickspohn

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    #12
    Apple didn't forget about it, and more than likely they are working on getting it to work. Look at the trouble they had with Mobile Me. This is an extremely hard thing to do. With Mobile Me, imagine servers pushing down and up emails, contacts, and calenders. Times that by lets say 1,000,000, because it was free then, and bingo.
     
  13. dccorona macrumors 68020

    dccorona

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    #13
    they don't want to create something else for the whiners on this forum to complain about

    they're making sure they do it 100% right the first time
    (this has been said by apple execs before, so it definantly HAS been talked about since SJ announced it. It was also built into early versions of the 2.1 BETA before being pulled)
     
  14. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

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    #14
    Here's what I think:

    Using PUSH for everything isn't going to use up more battery than using PUSH for just email. I'm thinking that Apple has a central process that is running that will notify the iPhone of any new data. I don't think the iPhone is going to be constantly checking every app you have installed to see if there is new data for it. Instead, the apps are all going to be hooked up to this central system... one process. So having 100 apps or having just mail... it will use up the same amount of energy.
     
  15. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

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    #15
    No, it was in the early 2.1 BETA. I don't think it showed up in 2.2 at all.
     
  16. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #16
    You're exactly right. That's how BOTH mail and application "push" works on the iPhone. My only question is: will they use the same connection?

    @LittleWhiteCar: there's no such thing as a server "connecting to the phone only when it had something to send". Because of timeouts for IP addresses and connections, all phones (except for Blackberries) must send a request to the server as described above, every five to thirty minutes.
     
  17. Small White Car macrumors G4

    Small White Car

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    #17
    Then how do I get phone calls and text-messages instantly?

    Ok, you're going to say that it's AT&T's stuff, not Apple's. I get that. Here's my question:

    If AT&T can do it, why can't Apple?

    Serious question. If they can't, why? I don't know.
     
  18. Scallywag macrumors regular

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    #18
    I use both my yahoo mail and mobile me Email accounts with my iPhone, both set to "push", and they work as they should. There's no constantly open connections or anything like that. Now, when I set my other accounts to "fetch", then my battery life takes a huge hit, even when set to fetch every hour. Using only my two push accounts, however, preserves the battery very well, and it works flawlessly. Emails arrive in seconds. I hardly ever use texts anymore!!
     
  19. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

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    #19
    Phone and text isn't data. I don't know if that makes a difference.

    Also, if MobileMail.app is polling a server every 5-30 minutes, wouldn't that be the same as "fetch"? How come when I send an email to myself (from another email address) I get it within SECONDS of sending it and it has no big affect on my battery life.
     
  20. cellocello macrumors 68000

    cellocello

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  21. TheSpaz macrumors 604

    TheSpaz

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    #21
    Did you just make that date up?
     
  22. Consultant macrumors G5

    Consultant

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    #22
    Submit it to apple.com/feedback/
    or if you are a developer, submit it as a bug report.
     
  23. cellocello macrumors 68000

    cellocello

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    #23
    I did. But honestly, I wouldn't expect anything before that.

    I mean, maybe, maaaybe, we'll see something in January - but I'm not holding my breath.
     
  24. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

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    #24
    Yep, it does. Incoming phone calls and SMS are basically the same thing: a "page" (ring) from the carrier. They're one push method. The carrier always knows where your phone number is located. And your phone is constantly listening for an incoming page.

    On the other hand, data connections use IP addresses, which are temporary. (There's not enough to give each phone a permanent one of its own... at least not until we all go to IPV6.)

    Yep, in this case, "push" is really a "fetch" request with an extended timeout.

    The phone sends a request and waits for a reply. The server gets the request and thus has a known connection back to the phone that it can use if/when it gets something to send.

    - If the server gets something to send, it uses the request path to send a reply, and thus imitates a push.

    - If the server has nothing to send by the time the timeout comes, it sends back a null reply and the phone tries again with the same or longer timeout.

    - If the server doesn't send anything within the timeout, the phone assumes the connection doesn't last that long, and sends another request with a shorter timeout.

    So the timeout adjusts to be as long as the shortest amount of time that your connection is good for without any activity. In most cases, that's around 30 minutes, and thus the push would use about the same battery as a 30 minute fetch.

    If, on the other hand, your connection dies every ten minutes of inactivity, the phone will have to shorten the timeout to nine minutes, and then the push uses three times the battery of a 30 minute fetch.
     
  25. firewood macrumors 604

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    #25
    Because somebody else has a patent on it when used for email. RIM paid close to half-a-billion dollars to settle their patent suit. Anyone else want to get sued for that much? Not likely!

    .
     

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