MP 7,1 Guess when macOS will stop supporting 7,1

[SDAVE]

Since 2024 is the 5th year anniversary of the 7,1 machine (2019) I would assume this year would be the last, but I could be wrong.

I am pretty sure Apple can't wait to dump support for all Intel machines and clean up the code and get rid of Universal apps and dump Rosetta 2.

 

[Mac3Duser]

it would be very risky because many users are still on intel. It is better for them to take it gradually.

 

[mattspace]

Since 2024 is the 5th year anniversary of the 7,1 machine (2019) I would assume this year would be the last, but I could be wrong.

I am pretty sure Apple can't wait to dump support for all Intel machines and clean up the code and get rid of Universal apps and dump Rosetta 2.

It was a new machine, and current model in 2023. So 2023 is the starting year for any counting.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

My guess is 2 more releases. Last sold 2023, so a 2024 and 2025 update seem reasonable, and after that they want to be done with intel.

 

[prefuse07]

Looking at history -- my guess is macOS 16, and I hope Timmy is gone by then, but I know that's wishful thinking...

 

[floral]

Looking at history -- my guess is macOS 16, and I hope Timmy is gone by then, but I know that's wishful thinking...

View attachment 2335377

Unrelated, but I'm... really surprised the 2008 mac has been able to upgrade for so long through patches. The model just two years before it loses out on nearly 10 years-worth of updates, pretty big of a difference !

 

[prefuse07]

Unrelated, but I'm... really surprised the 2008 mac has been able to upgrade for so long through patches. The model just two years before it loses out on nearly 10 years-worth of updates, pretty big of a difference !

That's all thanks in part to the devs who have kept the machines going via OC/OCLP!

Would be really sweet if the same happened for the 7,1, but if apple alters macOS, I suspect we won't be able to keep that going... This is why Timmy and his sad group of sycophants need to go, ASAP.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

That's all thanks in part to the devs who have kept the machines going via OC/OCLP!

Would be really sweet if the same happened for the 7,1, but if apple alters macOS, I suspect we won't be able to keep that going... This is why Timmy and his sad group of sycophants need to go, ASAP.

You know in retrospect I do wonder why not push for a dual architecture strategy. It's a hedge on technology. If you can push out big iron better with intel, why not. No one is surprised. And you could push things so far now. Optical networking. Massive ESDFF SSDs. Massive multiple GPUs. Massive virtualization abilities. I'm sure they will keep an intel version running in the labs, but it's not the same thing. They wouldn't need to try to push a square peg in a round hole.

Eventually maybe they get their processors and video working well enough they wont need intel or better yet, AMD, but until then, hedging your bets is kind of sound business practice.

 

[prefuse07]

You know in retrospect I do wonder why not push for a dual architecture strategy. It's a hedge on technology. If you can push out big iron better with intel, why not. No one is surprised. And you could push things so far now. Optical networking. Massive ESDFF SSDs. Massive multiple GPUs. Massive virtualization abilities. I'm sure they will keep an intel version running in the labs, but it's not the same thing. They wouldn't need to try to push a square peg in a round hole.

Eventually maybe they get their processors and video working well enough they wont need intel or better yet, AMD, but until then, hedging your bets is kind of sound business practice.

Not to mention why they took such an aggressive position AGAINST their own customer base!

All of this just proves how incompetent and single-minded their leadership has become. I mean, they literally have the resources to do whatever they want, and really innovate, yet this is the way they're sinking the ship... All he cares about is $$$, a true bean counter with no vision. I truly hope there is some real change soon, but again, highly unlikely.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Not to mention why they took such an aggressive position AGAINST their own customer base!

All of this just proves how incompetent and single-minded their leadership has become. I mean, they literally have the resources to do whatever they want, and really innovate, yet this is the way they're sinking the ship... All he cares about is $$$, a true bean counter with no vision. I truly hope there is some real change soon, but again, highly unlikely.

The only person with the tech chops I can think of is Craig F. He's an ex-NeXT guy. But he's been eating caviar so long there, that you wonder if anyone can re-juice the company.

Frankly 80% of the company should be fired. They are fat lazy do nothing 'vacationing' around apple, and impeding any progress.

They need a reboot like when Jobs came back, fired everyone useless, and rebooted the company into a huge burst of creativity.

I have no idea who has the gravitas, vision, and drive to do something like that for as big a behemoth as apple has become.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Looking at history -- my guess is macOS 16, and I hope Timmy is gone by then, but I know that's wishful thinking...

View attachment 2335377

Not to mention why they took such an aggressive position AGAINST their own customer base!

All of this just proves how incompetent and single-minded their leadership has become. I mean, they literally have the resources to do whatever they want, and really innovate, yet this is the way they're sinking the ship... All he cares about is $$$, a true bean counter with no vision. I truly hope there is some real change soon, but again, highly unlikely.

The only person with the tech chops I can think of is Craig F. He's an ex-NeXT guy. But he's been eating caviar so long there, that you wonder if anyone can re-juice the company.

Frankly 80% of the company should be fired. They are fat lazy do nothing 'vacationing' around apple, and impeding any progress.

They need a reboot like when Jobs came back, fired everyone useless, and rebooted the company into a huge burst of creativity.

I have no idea who has the gravitas, vision, and drive to do something like that for as big a behemoth as apple has become.

Lol, in all of this ranting and raving about Tim Cook and how he’s leaving Intel Mac customers in the dust, you guys invoke Steve Jobs.
If you forgot, allow me to remind you.
If you bought a power Mac G5 in 2005 or throughout the majority of 2006 while it was available, you got three years of support.
Thensnow Leopard dropped, and power PC was left in the dust.
No more updates, no more active support, nothing, next.

Say whatever you want about how Tim has done this transition, but so far Intel Mac customers have been treated a lot better than power PC customers were treated under Jobs.

We really only have seen certain software going Apple Silicon only (even from Apple themselves) within the last year or so. And the chip has been out for over three years.

We have seen four major versions of macOS since then, and Apple has pretty much followed Intel with Support.
Skylake lost macOS Support around the same time windows 11 also dropped SkyLake.

So I don’t get what’s all the anger about.

 

[PowerMike G5]

Lol, in all of this ranting and raving about Tim Cook and how he’s leaving Intel Mac customers in the dust, you guys invoke Steve Jobs.
If you forgot, allow me to remind you.
If you bought a power Mac G5 in 2005 or throughout the majority of 2006 while it was available, you got three years of support.
Thensnow Leopard dropped, and power PC was left in the dust.
No more updates, no more active support, nothing, next.

Say whatever you want about how Tim has done this transition, but so far Intel Mac customers have been treated a lot better than power PC customers were treated under Jobs.

We really only have seen certain software going Apple Silicon only (even from Apple themselves) within the last year or so. And the chip has been out for over three years.

We have seen four major versions of macOS since then, and Apple has pretty much followed Intel with Support.
Skylake lost macOS Support around the same time windows 11 also dropped SkyLake.

So I don’t get what’s all the anger about.

Apple is a very different company this time around during this transition vs the one from PPC to Intel. There are far, far more people with Intel Macs at this time in the transition then people who had PPC Macs during the transition to Intel. And Apple is a much, much larger company too during this transition then the previous one. So the need to support their customer base is more relevant this time around.

With the 7,1 just being discontinued about 6 months ago, I'd imagine MacOs support goes through 2025 at minimum. With 2026 being a possible last supporting OS version.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Lol, in all of this ranting and raving about Tim Cook and how he’s leaving Intel Mac customers in the dust, you guys invoke Steve Jobs.
If you forgot, allow me to remind you.
If you bought a power Mac G5 in 2005 or throughout the majority of 2006 while it was available, you got three years of support.
Thensnow Leopard dropped, and power PC was left in the dust.
No more updates, no more active support, nothing, next.

Say whatever you want about how Tim has done this transition, but so far Intel Mac customers have been treated a lot better than power PC customers were treated under Jobs.

We really only have seen certain software going Apple Silicon only (even from Apple themselves) within the last year or so. And the chip has been out for over three years.

We have seen four major versions of macOS since then, and Apple has pretty much followed Intel with Support.
Skylake lost macOS Support around the same time windows 11 also dropped SkyLake.

So I don’t get what’s all the anger about.

I agree, you are not getting what the anger is about, at least from me. I don’t care about the platform. Intel. ASI or something else. It’s the lack of innovation and delivring of products to core ”think different” customers.

Most people Today have no idea that John Skully had Steve Jobs kicked out, and soon after, went on to have record sales way bigger than Steve did with the Mac, by milking the Mac, only then leading the company into a decline for lack of innovation and not knowing its core customers. The only difference is is Tim Cook has way more runway money from the iPhone than skully did with the Mac, but otherwise they have some similarities.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Most people Today have no idea that John Skully had Steve Jobs kicked out, and soon after, went on to have record sales way bigger than Steve did with the Mac…

exactly, they don’t know. And most importantly, they don’t care.

People need to stop invoking this nonsense from 40 years ago.

It’s not 40 years ago, technology companies are not just these small firms for rich people and businesses anymore.

Tim couldn’t run Apple like it’s 1984 still, even if he wanted to. Even if that was his inclination.
Really no technology company can be ran like they were 40 years ago, it’s just way too big and powerful of a market

 

[flyproductions]

Question might be "Do we 'need' a 'big' update every year?" in the first place! 🙄

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

exactly, they don’t know. And most importantly, they don’t care.

People need to stop invoking this nonsense from 40 years ago.

It’s not 40 years ago, technology companies are not just these small firms for rich people and businesses anymore.

Tim couldn’t run Apple like it’s 1984 still, even if he wanted to. Even if that was his inclination.
Really no technology company can be ran like they were 40 years ago, it’s just way too big and powerful of a market

Sure Sure. Ignoring history and lessons from the past is alway a great idea. Wonder why Steve and Apple even bothered to make an internal Apple university for such things. Because there’s nothing to learn from then. /sarcasm

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Question might be "Do we 'need' a 'big' update every year?" in the first place! 🙄

That’s a great point and I think we do not. But we also don’t need 6 years of stagnation between meaningful releases too. And if the ”big” change is playing blender with system preferences, rehashing widgets for the desktop, and message stickers, you start to wonder about the over all vision, well at least I do.

Imo the big leap is clearly Vision Pro and I’m very hopeful the actual product is going to bring a lot to the party, but also suspect it’s the cause for a couple of years of syspref blender and stickers elsewhere in the product line.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Sure Sure. Ignoring history and lessons from the past is alway a great idea. Wonder why Steve and Apple even bothered to make an internal Apple university for such things. Because there’s nothing to learn from then. /sarcasm

What does that have to do with the Apple Silicon transition or this thread?

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

And if the ”big” change is playing blender with system preferences, rehashing widgets for the desktop, and message stickers, you start to wonder about the over all vision, well at least I do.

all of those features are obviously about integrating with the settings app, widget types and messaging platforms of the iPhone and iPad, making more of a unified experience across platforms.
You know, the thing Apple is known for.
Sure, they’re not the most interesting of features for longtime macOS users, but for those coming from iPhones and iPads they absolutely are.
The more friendly macOS is to iPhone and iPad users, the more people willing to get a Mac in the first place.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

What does that have to do with the Apple Silicon transition or this thread?

Plenty. I stated earlier in the thread.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

all of those features are obviously about integrating with the settings app, widget types and messaging platforms of the iPhone and iPad, making more of a unified experience across platforms.
You know, the thing Apple is known for.
Sure, they’re not the most interesting of features for longtime macOS users, but for those coming from iPhones and iPads they absolutely are.
The more friendly macOS is to iPhone and iPad users, the more people willing to get a Mac in the first place.

Something about a toaster fridge seems to apply. And letting each thing be itself. Of course one would need to care about and refer to history to understand the meaning there.

 

[bzgnyc2]

Since 2024 is the 5th year anniversary of the 7,1 machine (2019) I would assume this year would be the last, but I could be wrong.

I am pretty sure Apple can't wait to dump support for all Intel machines and clean up the code and get rid of Universal apps and dump Rosetta 2.

I almost get the impression you can't wait for Apple to dump Intel support...

I think you overestimate how much Intel-specific code is in macOS and the impact it has on Apple Silicon performance. At this point macOS is a 20-years mature, multi architecture OS having run production on three architectures (four if you count NeXT). Processor-specific code should be pretty well localized. It really should be just limited to parts of the kernel and devices drivers and key libraries/frameworks (e.g. Accelerate). And it's all already written and shouldn't need to be changed. Nor does it appear that Apple is holding Apple Silicon back for the sake of feature parity between the two platforms.

The other heavily processor-specific component is the compiler. Since they use LLVM and x86_64 probably has the greatest market share of LLVM users, I doubt that team has any interest in dropping support for it.

I can see why they would want to drop Rosetta as its already served its main purpose and its value declines ever day. However doing so before they drop the whole Intel platform would really screw with smaller developers' ability to support legacy customers. Plus I believe Parallels/etc and Docker use it to support Intel binaries from those platforms and dropping support for it just excludes whole classes of users from the Mac platform.

Again already written and working. About the only thing missing is AVX/AVX2 support but at this point there's no real upside to adding that so my guess is they will just leave alone until the end. Maybe move from a general user optional download to a developer optional download (e.g. into some version of Xcode tools).

Then every version of macOS since at least 10.4 has had some sort of Universal app support and doubt they will actually remove Universal support from the platform. They will just drop the ability to generate new Intel binaries in some future version of Xcode meaning it will only be able to generate Universal binaries for one architecture. But I doubt that will be noticeable to Apple Silicon users (except perhaps somewhat smaller application sizes).

With Venutra, Apple dropped support for all systems with pre-Skylake processors along with I am sure lots of other legacy hardware. Of the remaining platforms (I count 10), the Mac Pro is probably the most complicated to support but the one that should be the last to be dropped based on both its last retail sale and nature of its customers.

If I were a betting man, I'd say these platforms will drop out of macOS before the Mac Pro 2019 (in order of likelihood):
-iMac Pro
-MacBook Air8,x
-MacBook Pro15,x

 

[mattspace]

It’s not 40 years ago, technology companies are not just these small firms for rich people and businesses anymore.

Tim couldn’t run Apple like it’s 1984 still, even if he wanted to. Even if that was his inclination.
Really no technology company can be ran like they were 40 years ago, it’s just way too big and powerful of a market

What there is, that there wasnt 40 years ago, is a global environental crisis where obsolescing functional hardware is inreasingly morally unacceptable, a software landscape were security updates are needed on an ongoing basis because devices remain connected to an international network, and a regulatory environment world-wide that is getting very twitchy about almost every aspect of Apple's business.

I would be unsurprised, for example, if Apple was forced to release the source, and tools for the Afterburner card, by virtue of it being marketed and sold as a reconfigurable, and reprogrammable peripheral, for which they never offered a reconfiguration or reprogramming.

 

[avro707]

I would be unsurprised, for example, if Apple was forced to release the source, and tools for the Afterburner card, by virtue of it being marketed and sold as a reconfigurable, and reprogrammable peripheral, for which they never offered a reconfiguration or reprogramming

What would force them to do that?

I would like for instance the ability of third parties to be able to engineer support for the newer NVidia and AMD GPUs for our 7,1 Mac Pros. Radeon 7800 or 7900 or a Nvidia 4090 would be useful as opposed to the old W6800X Duo (which is still good but damn expensive).

 

[mattspace]

What would force them to do that?

A competition regulator holding that marketing (not just the sales brochure, but all the publicity done about it) a peripheral as reprogrammable, and reconfigurable, and then not providing reprogramming or reconfigurability amounts to a bait & switch.

I would like for instance the ability of third parties to be able to engineer support for the newer NVidia and AMD GPUs for our 7,1 Mac Pros. Radeon 7800 or 7900 or a Nvidia 4090 would be useful as opposed to the old W6800X Duo (which is still good but damn expensive).

True, but I think the Afterburner is a narrower case, and specific claims for its lifespan were made for it, which remain undelivered.