guide for connecting apple TV 4K to reciever without 4K hdmi pass-through

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by scott911, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. scott911, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017

    scott911 macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009

    I'm hoping for some help in understating my options - and hope this will help may others too.

    Challenge: connecting the new apple TV 4k to (1) a 4K Television, and (2) a high end AV receiver that does not have 4K pass-though.

    note: I don't want to replace receiver - it is an $1800 unit that contains excellent amps and near magical trinnov room correction processing - and is just too expensive for me to retire. The problem is that this older receiver - a newcastle r-972 - supports only hdmi 1.3 - and no ARC

    In all older apple TV generations - (without 4K video to accommodate) - I would connect the apple's TV's HDMI to the receiver, allowing receiver to extract the audio, and then pass the video through a further HDMI cable to the Television.

    In the apple TV 4K, - I can't connect only to the receiver because it would not pass though the long awaited 4K vidio signal to my television.

    Options that come to mind.

    An audio extractor box (that supports 4K hdmi2.0) would give me a digital audio output to feed my AVreceiver while HDMI goes on to television. But better audio formats like Dolby True HD, DTS master HD don't work over spdif / toslink / optical port. I thought this would be a deal breaker, but the sadly, the apple tv 4K does not seem to support these higher audio resolutions either.
    here's an example of the audio extractor box I was looking at:

    A better option would seem to be to adding an external 4K HDMI splitter - essentially adding a second HDMI out that the apple tv should have had in the first pace - one goes to TV, the other goes to the AV receiver. Does this cause handshaking / hdcp issues? Maybe this approach would help future proof system in case apple adds better audio support in future. Here's one box that happened to come up in a search that looks like it would work: (description is confusing though - is it really 4k?)

    What do you guys think? Any other options, and/or supporting hardware recommendations you might have?

    Thanks, and good luck everyone!
  2. cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    I would try some splitter, but the display might handshake the audio down. I think this might be solved by an advanced one.

    Getting a UHD Blu Ray player with HDMI in and 2 HDMI out might also work.
  3. archer75 macrumors 68020

    Jan 26, 2005
  4. cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    I am seeing the Cambridge CXUHD there.
  5. scott911, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017

    scott911 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009
    The splitter option appeals to me much more. Much respect to Oppo - but that's a $600 option :)

    Anyone have any brand of model recommendations on a splitter ? - lots of unfamiliar companies to choose from!
    maybe this brand? generally like monoprice...
  6. scouser75 macrumors 65816

    Oct 7, 2008
    I'm in the same situation as you. I have an Onkyo 3010 AVR which up to now has done what it had to do. But I now want to connect ATV 4K to this AVR. I know picture won't be an issue. But will.i be able to get the sound through?

    Does Apple rentals/purchases give you an option as to what audio format you want played?
  7. scott911 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009
    SOLUTIONS! On another Thread, user RBDAN provided this information. I thought this would be a good place to share it:

    This one will do exactly what you are trying to accomplish. (4K HDR to TV and Audio to old AVR)

    For many, simply getting a new AV receiver instead might be a reasonable option. But for me, my hdmi 1.3 receiver cost a boatload of cash, and its audio quality remains excellent. So investing $149 in the HD Fury product to essentially extend its life does make a lot of sense.

    ARCHER and CUBES suggestion to use an OPPO 203 is also interesting. The Oppo is among the highest regarded audiophile Bluray players - and in those circles is a bargain at $550. The Oppo has dual HDMI out, and a "in" for your choice of steaming device. Like the hdfury above, it has a HDMI 2.0 port for connecting to the latest UHD TVs and projectors, and an HDMI 1.4 audio port for connecting to older A/V receivers.

    Beware of the many other splitters, like the $35 one from sewell direct and many others. They list spacs of hdmi v2.0, 4K, etc. their specs, but the moment you connect the second HDMI out to your older AV receiver, it will sense the lower HDMI version, and reduce output to BOTH signals to non 4K - essentially turning your new Apple TV 4K machine into a gen 4 machine.

    Thanks for the conversation and solutions - rocks! :)
  8. john.burn macrumors member

    Feb 8, 2007
    You could always connect the AppleTV to a HDMI port on your TV and then ARC the audio back to your AVR. Assuming the AVR and TV support ARC at more than just stereo, this would be a no cost option!

    EDIT: Noticed you mentioned no ARC on the AVR. But if the TV does it, does the AVR really need to support ARC, can't you just stick the ARC from the TV to any old HDMI input on the receiver?
  9. cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    You could try using a cheap 4K splitter plus a cheap EDID manager/feeder.
  10. scott911 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009
    yeah couod work - but a rats-nest of boxes, hdmi jumper cables, power supplies - and lots to go wrong....

    For those who the HD fury is too pricey, I'd bet there will be a couple new options (monoprice?) that come to market soon.
  11. cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    You could in addition need an audio extractor with both in and out HDMI ports. Or maybe just an extractor which takes care of the EDID plus the splitter.

    Some HDMI boxes take power from the cable.
  12. scott911 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009
    Until i decide what route to go - fury or oppo - I'll just run my apple TV direct to the television, and use the television's digital audio out to my AVR. Of course that's awfully limiting in terms of the audio format it will carry, but with so many questions about what apple TV will "pass" - I'm taking it slow... I already have the optical cable running through my wall btw...
  13. john.burn macrumors member

    Feb 8, 2007
    Most ARC capable TV's (if 4K) would be able to pass most of what an Apple TV 4K is capable of back via ARC.
  14. cube, Sep 18, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2017

    cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    You cannot use ARC as a normal audio output. You can use an ARC extractor to send the TV audio via optical to the receiver. ARC does not support HD audio (eARC in 2.1 will).

    You also need to check that the TV will pass audio from the inputs to ARC, and not just internal one.
  15. tonyk23 macrumors newbie

    Mar 16, 2011
    Does anyone Know if this device will work? It states that it "CONVERTS HDCP 2.2 to 1.4: Play today's content on your legacy 4K display; compliant with HDMI 1.4b".,+2.2+to+1.4

    I have a Yamaha RX-V377 that says HDMI 1.4a and I spoke to J-Tech support and they think it will work.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.
  16. cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    Depending on the inputs of your receiver, you could buy a 3D 4K HDR AV preamp/surround processor with:

    1. discrete analog ouputs and 1 HDMI output

    2. 2 HDMI outputs
  17. iFan83 macrumors regular

    Sep 12, 2017
    I don't believe the optical digital out to the AVR will affect the audio being streamed from the AppleTV, this would be true if you were trying to get HD audio but from my understanding it won't affect the DD+ from iTunes.
  18. 2010mini macrumors 68040

    Jun 19, 2013
    Doesn’t your tv have an audio out? If it does... connect the ATV directly to it and use the audio out to your amp.
  19. scott911 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009
    yes - as per post 12 that's what i'll be doing at beginning. But digital audio out from a TV is very limited in what audio format it will pass. so it's far from ideal...
  20. Jayderek macrumors 6502


    Jun 28, 2010
    Madison, WI
    yeah this is what I'll be stuck doing for now. I was foolishly hoping that the new ATV would have 2 HMDI outs with one just for audio like many of the 4k UHD Blu-ray players do. Ultimately I'll be looking for a new receiver for down the road, but it's such a shame since my current receiver has been wonderful
  21. scott911 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Aug 24, 2009
    same boat exactly. I should have gone separates - (receiver and amps in separate boxes, so the receiver can be replaced when going to whatever's next without loosing the whole investment. I have a pair of these in my 2.0 system:
  22. Rpmartinez macrumors newbie


    Sep 21, 2017
    I read somewhere that the HDMI input on the Opposite 203 can pass thru 4k but not HDR.
    So keep that in mind
  23. cube macrumors Pentium

    May 10, 2004
    It seems the Oppo can pass through HDR10 but not Dolby Vision.


    I had some trouble with multichannel SACD with my old BD player, so I bought a $20 EDID feeder not caring much about a poor review:

    - If I put the feeder between the BD player and receiver I will get no audio at all (maybe HDCP issue?)
    - No matter what I do, if I connect the TV to the HDMI out in the receiver, it will still downgrade the SACD audio to stereo
    - If I put the feeder between the primary HDMI out of the BD player and the TV, now I am able to play SACD in multichannel even if the TV is off and I don't need to follow any special startup sequence.
    - Setting the secondary HDMI out of the BD player as "primary" did not help

    So, even if I still cannot have a setup with video from the receiver to the TV, I succeeded in my main objective.
  24. jamiecruise macrumors newbie


    Oct 14, 2017
    I have a similar problem with my 2016 LG OLED TV and an older Arcam AVR400. The AVR400 is a very nice amp and equivalent replacements are in the £2700 price range. The AVR400 won't pass through 4K over HDMI and so I need to use the AVR as an audio processor only. I've tried ARC and toslink/spdif out on the TV to the AVR, but ended with hard, distracting, intermittent dropouts (and ARC in general seems to be a mess as it requires enabling CEC and then all sorts of weird stuff starts happening).

    I've found 3 potentially viable solutions:

    1. This $149 device provides one UHD passthrough and 1 HD HDMI output from a single UHD input. This will let me route the audio to the AVR and send the video unadulterated to the TV.

    2. switch 4x1 ARC port_pro.html. This is a $249 4-1 UHD HDMI switch which allows routing of audio out via toslink, (which I would send to the AVR). This device has the advantage that I could consolidate all my sources to a single HDMI output to the TV.

    3. AppleTV 3 / Airplay. I have a couple of these kicking around so $0. I can hook this into the AVR as an HDMI (or optical using toslink) and route the Apple 4K TV audio to it. I think the 2 sec delay might be a bit of a drag.

    1&3 feel hack-ish. 2 is expensive but enhances the overall setup ...

    I'll start with 3.
  25. timothevs macrumors 6502


    Nov 17, 2007
    In the same boat as OP. I actually chose to go with option 1. The HDMI EDID Audio Extractor/Splitter - like the HDFury box, but at $63, less than half the price of the HDFury, and available via Prime. Link

    Now I have been chuffed with the purchase and it works well for the most part.

    I can view 4K HDR at 4:2:2 and the manufacturer claims that when Sony TVs get Dolby Vision, it will pass that on too. My Oppo gets the full DTS, Dolby Digital sound, and all is well on the Audio front as well. I can control the volume and switch the TV and the AppleTV 4K on with the Apple TV remote. Sweet!

    Now for the part that doesn't work as well. Switching the Apple TV and Sony TV on together with the Apple TV 4K remote will often bring up a static/snowy screen. Not until I switch off the device and plug it back in, will the picture come back. The device doesn't come with a remote, nor is there a power switch. It is meant for continuous operation.

    Does anyone know what this might be - seems to be like a handshake issue, and I'd hate to switch CEC off for this.

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