Had to cancel my ATV4 because no optical audio, question...

[loekf]

I'm still using my original Apple TV as an audio streamer because it's got analogue audio outputs.

Wow.. wish they kept that design. I don't care much about minimalist black boxes. Even Blu-ray players these days turn into anonymous black small boxes.

 

[theluggage]

So I had ordered a 32GB Apple TV 4, but then realized that it has no optical audio port which is what I use on my current Apple TV (Gen. 3) to hook up to my Sony Sound-Bar w/ Subwoofer system.

Hang on - how is the TV connected to the soundbar?
Normally, you'd just hook the ATV to one of the HDMI inputs on the TV and the sound would be routed to the soundbar when you selected that connection.

I agree that the loss of optical out is a pity but I don't quite see what the problem is in your case (other than a woeful lack of HDMI ports on your TV). Sadly, it looks like we're moving into the era of needing multiple HDMI dongles (ChromeCast, Amazon etc.) to get all the services we want, so your system is probably going to prove a pain, anyway.

However, an AV receiver or a better soundbar (with multiple HDMI inputs) might be a better solution than replacing your screen.

BUT, optical audio has been dead since HDMI became standard

Nonsense. Until HDMI 1.4 introduced the Audio Return Channel feature, TVs relied on optical connections to get the sound to AV amplifiers etc. Optical in is still commonplace on AV amplifiers.

 

[paddyi]

Just another thought. I'll often listen to music through my Apple TV and an optical connection. Without optical on the 4th Gen, does this now mean I'll have to leave my TV on if I want to listen to music?

 

[2010mini]

Just another thought. I'll often listen to music through my Apple TV and an optical connection. Without optical on the 4th Gen, does this now mean I'll have to leave my TV on if I want to listen to music?

Not if all your a/v is routed through your receiver. you can tun on your receiver and the ATV. Select whatever input you have reserved for the ATV and then just start air playing. That's how I do it.

 

[paddyi]

Not if all your a/v is routed through your receiver. you can tun on your receiver and the ATV. Select whatever input you have reserved for the ATV and then just start air playing.

Could you explain the set up to me? So the HDMI is running from the Apple TV to the receiver? How is the Apple TV connected to the TV?

 

[zhenya]

Could you explain the set up to me? So the HDMI is running from the Apple TV to the receiver? How is the Apple TV connected to the TV?

It depends on your gear and how you have it connected. If you have your HDMI connections all going to your receiver, with a single HDMI connection to the TV, then you won't have to have the TV on to listen to music. If instead you have all the HDMI connections going to the TV and a single connection going back to your receiver, then yes, you'll have to have the TV on to listen to music.

 

[Jago]

Whining and bitching about the lack of optical output in ATV4 is getting really really old. Vast majority of AV receivers sold in the past 10 or so years have multiple HDMI inputs -> you are supposed to connect multiple HDMI devices to the AV receiver and then have 1 HDMI cable going out of the receiver into the TV. If for some reason you are stuck with 15-20 year old audio equiptment, spend 10$ and buy a HDMI->HDMI+Optical breakout splitter. Problem solved.

Stop whining. This isn't rocket surgery.

 

[HoiPiet]

For the cost of a few cents in production

I think there are solid arguments for keeping the optical out, but c'mon, it would cost more than a few cents. Its not as if they just tell the factory to solder on another connector.

 

[2010mini]

Could you explain the set up to me? So the HDMI is running from the Apple TV to the receiver? How is the Apple TV connected to the TV?

all my equipment is going to the receiver via HDMI. Blu-ray player, Apple TV, and Game System. And only one HDMI cable goes from the receiver to the TV (HDMI OUT).

The receiver is the only thing switching inputs based on what I want to see on the TV screen. The receiver is the hub and the TV only displays video

 

[theluggage]

Could you explain the set up to me? So the HDMI is running from the Apple TV to the receiver? How is the Apple TV connected to the TV?

If you're using a cheaper 'soundbar' that is really just an extension speaker for your TV then this won't make sense. Sounds like that's what the thread starter has.

If you have a "proper" A/V Receiver (Home Cinema amplifier) then it doubles as a HDMI 'switch box' for your TV. All of your devices (Blu Ray, PVR, Apple TV, whatever) plug in to it via HDMI and a single HDMI goes from the A/V Receiver to the screen. Fancy A/V receivers will add on-screen graphics for volume etc. You use the A/V receiver to select the picture source.

 

[bluespark]

If you're worried about high end audio, why are you interested device where the majority of the music/sound options are going to be filled with compression instead of a dedicated high end audio player?

I enjoy high end AV as much as the next guy, but I know I'm getting less than stellar AV quality out of any streaming box compared to something like a Blu-ray player or audio deck, but I'm willing to make the concessions out of convenience, ease of use and not having 10 things connected to my receiver.

The AppleTV does just fine with lossless source material and many people use it for this purpose.

 

[paddyi]

all my equipment is going to the receiver via HDMI. Blu-ray player, Apple TV, and Game System. And only one HDMI cable goes from the receiver to the TV (HDMI OUT).

The receiver is the only thing switching inputs based on what I want to see on the TV screen. The receiver is the hub and the TV only displays video

That's great. Thanks for explaining

 

[bluespark]

Optical digital ( or coaxial ) is still the preferred digital connection for high end 2 channel ! I only know of one quality DAC that uses HDMI ( NAD 51 ) and that is more of an additional feature as it still runs optical and coaxial.

HDMI is notably worse for jitter that optical and is not in any way a better connection for music.

For the cost of a few cents in production Apple have lost and entire, but small market, those who use external DAC's or DAC equiped 2 channel amplifiers.

Adapters, as posted are a pain and typically made of cheap components and sound poor.

Those saying that optical is old tech are demonstrating a very incomplete knowledge of the audio world.

There are / was a reasonable group of "audio" guys hoping that this ATV would have HiRes, 24bit, audio, and that apple might enter that area perhaps with a higher fee as some others have done, seems that instead they had gone backwards.

HDMI has come a long way since the early days, but you're exactly right that optical/coax is preferred for high-end two-channel systems. Case in point: I currently run an ATV3 through a very good DAC before I send it to my two-channel amplifier. Similar two-channel systems are the mainstay of the audio-enthusiast world. (Yes, there are also excellent home theatre systems -- and I have one of those as well -- but that's an entirely different deal.) The notion that one would "upgrade" a high-performing two-channel system to accommodate HDMI is simply uninformed.

 

[oneMadRssn]

If you're using a cheaper 'soundbar' that is really just an extension speaker for your TV then this won't make sense. Sounds like that's what the thread starter has.

If you have a "proper" A/V Receiver (Home Cinema amplifier) then it doubles as a HDMI 'switch box' for your TV. All of your devices (Blu Ray, PVR, Apple TV, whatever) plug in to it via HDMI and a single HDMI goes from the A/V Receiver to the screen. Fancy A/V receivers will add on-screen graphics for volume etc. You use the A/V receiver to select the picture source.

The problem with this is it doesn't let you adjust the TV settings per input. For example: on my input for the xbox, I have it set to a brighter backlight and brighter colors; on my input for the appleTV, I have it set to "cinema" mode; and when watching OTA signals, I have the 120fps interpolation turned on because usually I watch sports OTA.

I know some A/V receivers can do some but not all of those adjustments, but there is no doubt that the TV is the "proper" place to make those adjustments.

 

[bluespark]

People don't replace high end audio recovers like they do iPhones. They cost a hell of a lot more overall generally speaking if they're really good receivers. And for custom set ups it's a nightmare to replace sometimes. Apple should've kept optical out or at least put a coax audio out.

I can't even find an AV receiver with the quality amps in it that mine has at a reasonable price (under 2000) and I also don't see the need to replace it for an appletv. I ordered an adaptor and I'll be fine. But it should have been on the box.

Oh and my AV receiver has 3 coax 5 optical ins and two optical outs. No HDMI. But a million analogue connections. And kicks most of today's receivers buts in audio quality.

Oh and most tvs don't pass full and all audio from HDMI sources out their Digital outputs to soundbars.

Exactly. A $2000 integrated amplifier will absolutely destroy a $2000 HT receiver in terms of sound quality. While some people nevertheless might want a home theatre system, plenty of people will not. The AppleTV loses a huge segment of people who love good sound.

 

[GizmoDVD]

Wait, the apple TV won't play my DVDs either?!?!

 

[Serban]

Can i watch a movie from my mac through TV 4 connected to my 4k Tv and put this device http://www.engadget.com/products/libratone/lounge/ to be my movie speaker?

im wonder because i think on connectivity does not have Bluetooth

 

[TurboPGT!]

I already have my AppleTV setup to HDMI > TV, and the TV goes Optical out to > Soundbar. This allows me to connect other devices via HDMI to the TV, and have all them funneled over Optical to the Soundbar.

This is the "right" way to do it, whether you have 1 device or multiple.

 

[theluggage]

The problem with this is it doesn't let you adjust the TV settings per input.

Well, yes, thats a perfectly good solution if you've got a TV with plenty of HDMI inputs, that remembers picture settings for each input and does digital audio passthrough to a connected AV receiver... OTOH, the A/V receiver will be able to remember its custom settings for each input...

To summarise the summary: the A/V industry is a mess of half baked standards like HDMI CEC and DLNA that should allow cross-platform compatibility but that, in practice, are proprietary.

Real problem: mass-market TVs should have decent sound systems built-in (even if the speakers are external) and cinephile 'TVs' should just be monitors, with no audio or tuners at all, designed to work as part of a separates system.

 

[oneMadRssn]

Well, yes, thats a perfectly good solution if you've got a TV with plenty of HDMI inputs, that remembers picture settings for each input and does digital audio passthrough to a connected AV receiver... OTOH, the A/V receiver will be able to remember its custom settings for each input...

I have yet to come across a TV that doesn't remember picture settings for each input, and most TVs today have at least 3 HDMI inputs - most have more.

That said, very few or none have digital audio passthough - and that is the real shame.

To summarise the summary: the A/V industry is a mess of half baked standards like HDMI CEC and DLNA that should allow cross-platform compatibility but that, in practice, are proprietary.

I certainly agree with that. Even when they work properly, HDMI-CEC, HDMI-ARC, and etc. don't solve the issue. As I mentioned above, I think a proper digital audio passthough would fix many of the issues. Let the TV handle HDMI switching and video settings, and let the amplifier handle audio and speakers. Seems simple to me. I don't want my amplifier handling video, and I don't want my TV messing with the audio.

 

[page3]

Whining and bitching about the lack of optical output in ATV4 is getting really really old. Vast majority of AV receivers sold in the past 10 or so years have multiple HDMI inputs -> you are supposed to connect multiple HDMI devices to the AV receiver and then have 1 HDMI cable going out of the receiver into the TV. If for some reason you are stuck with 15-20 year old audio equiptment, spend 10$ and buy a HDMI->HDMI+Optical breakout splitter. Problem solved.

Stop whining. This isn't rocket surgery.

I've not seen anyone whining and bitching on here. They're discussing, which is what a discussion board is for even if Mac Rumors seems to be becoming more and more opinionated.

I've got an Anthem setup, which sounds amazing and obviously has full HDMI support.

My brother has a 2.0 system, with AppleTV. Unison Research valve amp with Martin Logan electrostatic speakers. It sounds incredible and he sees no reason to go multi speaker. His 'equipment' is new. Not everything has HDMI, particularly high end. After hearing it, I can understand why! A $10 splitter will not do the job to any degree of quality.

Just accept different people have different setups and different requirements than you. That doesn't make them wrong.

 

[leon44]

I was using optical out to my speakers and wasn't sure how I would use it with ATV4.

But it turns out there is a headphone jack on my TV which I can route to my speakers, might not be perfect but it works pretty well!

 

[davygee]

It's always the same on this forum. Apple drops some feature to cut corners, and of course that needs to be defended because it was "outdated" or "dead" anyway, regardless whether it makes any sense or not. When the Macbook came out without any ports that can be used in the real world, the fanboys defended that too.

The fact is that connectors are not dead as long as a significant number of people are using them. Can you provide any reason at all why dropping this output is a good idea, besides making Apple's profit margin even fatter?
Most better receivers (yes, including brand new ones) have multiple S/PDIF inputs.
People who are not affected often don't.

You are approaching this in the wrong way. Apple don't tend to cut corners and don't intentionally remove features to say a few dollars (as you say). They come to the decision internally that they don't need the port and would rather remove it if it's not good moving forward for them.

What in your words is significant? 30%, 10% or 1%? At the end of the day, Apple make decisions based on their internal focus.

In the end though, I think it's a shame this port has been removed, but I'm sure Apple have a reason to do it.

 

[det2004]

I'm in the group that has been using optical audio for my ATV. I have a projector, so I have to have something with HDMI input to get the audio, since I for sure do not want to be listening over my projector speakers. I've been looking at replacing my home theater system, but am having trouble finding an affordable option with HDMI inputs so I'm considering getting one of the pass through boxes that has an optical audio out from there and using that, but that's just one more device to plug in, and more cables laying around...

 

[MacManTexas56]

People don't replace high end audio recovers like they do iPhones. They cost a hell of a lot more overall generally speaking if they're really good receivers. And for custom set ups it's a nightmare to replace sometimes. Apple should've kept optical out or at least put a coax audio out.

I can't even find an AV receiver with the quality amps in it that mine has at a reasonable price (under 2000) and I also don't see the need to replace it for an appletv. I ordered an adaptor and I'll be fine. But it should have been on the box.

Oh and my AV receiver has 3 coax 5 optical ins and two optical outs. No HDMI. But a million analogue connections. And kicks most of today's receivers buts in audio quality.

Oh and most tvs don't pass full and all audio from HDMI sources out their Digital outputs to soundbars.

no kidding, the same goes for tv. so you have people complaining about no 4k, yet there are a ton of people that still have tv's with 1 or 2 hdmi ports. People are gonna whine and complain no matter what apple does. If it had 4k, then you'd have people complaining that their tv is old and they are now overpaying for a device that does something they can't use. But i always find it funny that the people complaining are the ones that don't want to fork out any money to keep their system up to date. Yet, it's apple's fault they have a 10-15 year old sound system?