Hand washing poor implementation

[ahostmadsen]

To me, hand washing is not working very well. For one thing, it doesn’t always start. But more annoyingly, it seems to not count down consistently. Every second seems to take several seconds to count, and often it’s just stuck. I would say I have to wash hands for a minute for it to count 20 seconds.

I think it’s because of a paternalistic attitude from Apple. The simple implementation would be that when the watch detects hand washing, it starts a 20 second timer. Instead, from the description on Apple’s website, it seems to really want to check continuous hand washing. What’s the point? Only so that Apple can say: “you’re bad, you did not wash your hands for 20 seconds.” I don’t need that. I just need a 20 second timer that starts automatically.

 

[StumpyBloke]

Works perfectly for me every time. About the only thing of Apples that does (for me). The only slight issue is I don’t always get the audible feedback after 20 seconds, but do get the haptic and display feedback.

 

[ahostmadsen]

Works perfectly for me every time. About the only thing of Apples that does (for me). The only slight issue is I don’t always get the audible feedback after 20 seconds, but do get the haptic and display feedback.

Perhaps I move my hands the wrong way when I wash hands!

 

[lelisa13p]

watchOS 7.1 handwashing worked perfectly for me. Since upgrading to watchOS 7.2 over the Christmas weekend, handwashing feedback/haptic/sounds have become unreliable, often not working and the handwashing app is overall crappy now. If you wear long sleeves in Winter, like I do, you may as well not even have handwashing enabled. I don't know when it starts and it is very rare to hear any sound or feel haptic feedback when timer finishes counting down. watchOS 7.1 sounded a chime followed by another different chime one second later, when timer was finished. Now I'm back to singing "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star" in my head again to mark the 20 seconds. If I could downgrade back to 7.1, I'd do it in a heartbeat. No real reason why I bothered to upgrade in the first place. Upgrade regret is the worst.

UPDATE: I submitted a Feedback Report with Apple Watch describing change in behavior between watchOS 7.1 and 7.2. Hoping it helps.

 

[Coltaine]

To me, hand washing is not working very well. For one thing, it doesn’t always start. But more annoyingly, it seems to not count down consistently. Every second seems to take several seconds to count, and often it’s just stuck. I would say I have to wash hands for a minute for it to count 20 seconds.

I think it’s because of a paternalistic attitude from Apple. The simple implementation would be that when the watch detects hand washing, it starts a 20 second timer. Instead, from the description on Apple’s website, it seems to really want to check continuous hand washing. What’s the point? Only so that Apple can say: “you’re bad, you did not wash your hands for 20 seconds.” I don’t need that. I just need a 20 second timer that starts automatically.

They want to make sure that you really wash your hands AT LEAST 20 seconds. So only the combination of the right sounds and the right hand movements makes the timer go down. Just as you said. But this has been the case for me ever since the functionality was implemented. I still use it, but I would also prefer at least the option to set up the automatic start of a "dumb" timer that just counts down from 20 to 0.
Of course, I would still keep washing my hands for the full 20 seconds, who are you cheating?

 

[ahostmadsen]

They want to make sure that you really wash your hands AT LEAST 20 seconds. So only the combination of the right sounds and the right hand movements makes the timer go down. Just as you said. But this has been the case for me ever since the functionality was implemented. I still use it, but I would also prefer at least the option to set up the automatic start of a "dumb" timer that just counts down from 20 to 0.
Of course, I would still keep washing my hands for the full 20 seconds, who are you cheating?

Exactly, that’s what I mean by paternalistic attitude. I don’t need Apple to stand like a teacher and checking over my shoulder if I’m properly washing my hands. Just start a 20s timer when hand washing is detected. That would be practical.

 

[dallardice]

Since upgrading to 7.2, every morning when I pour my breakfast cereal into my bowl, my watch thinks I am washing my hands.... Every morning.

 

[Aspasia]

For me it's intermittent at best. Sometimes I get a pat on my head for washing my hands when I'm actually washing a few dishes. And at times I'll be washing my hands and my AW5 ignores it. It's not something I rely on.

 

[Sirious]

Works perfectly for me every time. About the only thing of Apples that does (for me). The only slight issue is I don’t always get the audible feedback after 20 seconds, but do get the haptic and display feedback.

They changed the audible feedback slightly in some recent update. I kinda liked how it made a sound to let me know its started counting and ended. I think its reduced to a mini audible feedback and haptics.

 

[easy4lif]

It was never reliable to me so I turned it off. I can count in my head.

 

[StumpyBloke]

They changed the audible feedback slightly in some recent update. I kinda liked how it made a sound to let me know its started counting and ended. I think its reduced to a mini audible feedback and haptics.

There is a bug with it I believe. Sometimes it makes the audible feedback, other times it doesn’t. It worked perfectly before the latest update.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

One person's "paternalistic attitude" is another's "effective implementation."

If the point of the hand washing feature is to ensure the hand washing be done effectively, then Apple is guilty as charged. If you want to simply start a timer, run the water for 20 seconds and perhaps wash your hands well, or perhaps wash them poorly, then do what I did before the feature was introduced - count down from 20 (or count up to 20) on your own. If thoroughness of the washing doesn't matter, then accuracy of the "timer" doesn't matter either.

 

[ahostmadsen]

One person's "paternalistic attitude" is another's "effective implementation."

If the point of the hand washing feature is to ensure the hand washing be done effectively, then Apple is guilty as charged. If you want to simply start a timer, run the water for 20 seconds and perhaps wash your hands well, or perhaps wash them poorly, then do what I did before the feature was introduced - count down from 20 (or count up to 20) on your own. If thoroughness of the washing doesn't matter, then accuracy of the "timer" doesn't matter either.

Frankly, there is no way the Watch can check “thoroughness of the washing.” No way. It’s called the Apple Watch not the Magic Watch. It only checks that you continue to wash your hands. It serves no purpose except being able to scold you if it thinks you’re not washing your hands. When I wash hands it often stops counting in the middle. So, I simply give up following it. By being so paternalistic it becomes less effective.

I think some Apple engineers overthought the problem. They should simply have made a 20s time started by detecting hand washing. Instead they made a Rube Goldberg machine that does not really solve the problem.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Frankly, there is no way the Watch can check “thoroughness of the washing.” No way. It’s called the Apple Watch not the Magic Watch. It only checks that you continue to wash your hands. It serves no purpose except being able to scold you if it thinks you’re not washing your hands. When I wash hands it often stops counting in the middle. So, I simply give up following it. By being so paternalistic it becomes less effective.

I think some Apple engineers overthought the problem. They should simply have made a 20s time started by detecting hand washing. Instead they made a Rube Goldberg machine that does not really solve the problem.

Yes, way. Since the Watch has an accelerometer and microphone it's indeed able to measure indications of thorough washing - continuous, vigorous activity and the squishy sounds of water and soap. It doesn't even require the sound of continuously running water (which would be a waste of resources). In some senses it's little different than a parent who detects you've left the bathroom without washing your hands - no sound of running water after the sound of the toilet flush. Except in this case it also has motion detection; handwashing certainly has a distinctive, detectible pattern of motion.

Yet try rubbing your dry hands together, as if you were washing. The timer doesn't start - it depends on a combination of sound and motion that if not present, doesn't trigger the app. That's a fair bit more sophisticated than "Hey Siri, start a 20-second timer."

It does no "scolding" whatsoever unless you turn on the optional Handwashing Reminders setting, which is off by default. If you tell a machine to remind you, it will - don't blame the machine for doing what you've instructed it to do.

Even so, a reminder is not a scolding. The reminder doesn't say, "Oh, you dirty, unsafe person, go wash those hands this instant!" Does it keep track of failed/interrupted washings? Does it set a daily goal or "reward" you for doing well with monthly badges like the Activity app? No, no, and no. No faux fireworks display, no mocking sound effect if you fail to finish. It counts down when it detects handwashing-like activity and indicates when you've finished the task.

It has started counting a few times when I've rinsed items in the kitchen sink, but it also abandoned counting when that rinse was short-lived. No "Why did you stop?" indications, no "Finish what you started." It just quietly went away.

I really don't get your problem. It's not some sort of parental authority that you can't escape. If you want some help with thorough hand washing, you use it. If it's too thorough for your own taste go into the settings and turn it off.

 

[ahostmadsen]

Yes, way. Since the Watch has an accelerometer and microphone it's indeed able to measure indications of thorough washing - continuous, vigorous activity and the squishy sounds of water and soap. It doesn't even require the sound of continuously running water (which would be a waste of resources). In some senses it's little different than a parent who detects you've left the bathroom without washing your hands - no sound of running water after the sound of the toilet flush. Except in this case it also has motion detection; handwashing certainly has a distinctive, detectible pattern of motion.

Yet try rubbing your dry hands together, as if you were washing. The timer doesn't start - it depends on a combination of sound and motion that if not present, doesn't trigger the app. That's a fair bit more sophisticated than "Hey Siri, start a 20-second timer."

It does no "scolding" whatsoever unless you turn on the optional Handwashing Reminders setting, which is off by default. If you tell a machine to remind you, it will - don't blame the machine for doing what you've instructed it to do.

Even so, a reminder is not a scolding. The reminder doesn't say, "Oh, you dirty, unsafe person, go wash those hands this instant!" Does it keep track of failed/interrupted washings? Does it set a daily goal or "reward" you for doing well with monthly badges like the Activity app? No, no, and no. No faux fireworks display, no mocking sound effect if you fail to finish. It counts down when it detects handwashing-like activity and indicates when you've finished the task.

It has started counting a few times when I've rinsed items in the kitchen sink, but it also abandoned counting when that rinse was short-lived. No "Why did you stop?" indications, no "Finish what you started." It just quietly went away.

I really don't get your problem. It's not some sort of parental authority that you can't escape. If you want some help with thorough hand washing, you use it. If it's too thorough for your own taste go into the settings and turn it off.

I just want a 20 second timer that starts automatically when you start to wash hands. That's all that's needed, and that’s all the watch can realistically do. Everything else is an illusion. At the start of the pandemic I watched instructional videos from doctors on how to do hand washing. There is no way the Apple Watch can check that you do it correctly.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

I just want a 20 second timer that starts automatically when you start to wash hands. That's all that's needed, and that’s all the watch can realistically do. Everything else is an illusion. At the start of the pandemic I watched instructional videos from doctors on how to do hand washing. There is no way the Apple Watch can check that you do it correctly.

So, how does your hypothetical 20-second timer automatically detect when you start washing your hands? How does it distinguish between hand washing and some other kinds of activity? It seems you'd need exactly what this app already does.

Apparently, all you can object to is that the timer pauses if your activity is not sufficiently vigorous or long-lasting.

Does it determine whether your washing activity is "surgical-standard?" No. A person could conceivably fool the app by washing only some parts of their hands while neglecting other parts. Maybe they could use hand lotion instead of soap and water. But if someone feels the need to cheat the app, then why use it at all? Hand washing (in most cases) is entirely voluntary. This app isn't an enforcer, it's an aid to doing a better job of something you intend to do well. If you don't intend to do it well, then you turn it off.

If you say you watched instructional videos on proper hand-washing technique, then you presumably care about doing this correctly. You started this discussion complaining that it's too "scolding." Now you're complaining that it can't truly determine that you've done a good job.

Again, it doesn't keep track, it doesn't reward, it doesn't scold, it does't certify your cleanliness to the authorities... It automatically starts a timer when it detects handwashing-like activity. If that activity is insufficiently vigorous or short-lived, it pauses. If you opt into the reminders, it detects when you've returned home and suggests a hand washing. The rest is up to us.

 

[ahostmadsen]

It automatically starts a timer when it detects handwashing-like activity.

Very useful.

If that activity is insufficiently vigorous or short-lived, it pauses.

And what would be the purpose of that? It cannot teach you proper hand washing. It cannot detect proper hand washing. It can only say: “I don’t trust that you actually wash your hands.”

I would say I have to wash hands for maybe a minute for the app to give me credit for 20s hand washing. Instead I get “A bit more” “almost there” allthough I rigorously wash hands.

 

[lelisa13p]

Any handwashing timer users tried WatchOS 7.3.2 yet? The update notification just showed up on my Watch S4 today. As I said earlier, my experience with timer performance using WatchOS 7.1 was perfect (that function was a new one) but then 7.2 broke it and no subsequent updates have fixed the handwashing timer. Any hope for 7.3.2? Currently timer is hit or miss. I just wish reliable feedback/haptic/sounds function was restored. (I realize this is not a world crisis problem but it's annoying.)

 

[rhyme2]

In Australia, we are encouraged to conserve water, so the advice on hand washing is to lather up, rub your soapy hands together for 30 seconds without the water running, and then turn on the tap to rinse off. The watch only counts the time while the water is running, so it doesn't work.

 

[ahostmadsen]

Yes, I switched it off. Apple could have made it simple: start a 20s timer when the start of handwashing is detected. Eng of story.

I think the problem is that the hand washing design team is actually the workout design team! They are treating hand washing as a hand exercise: how many calories is burned with hand washing? Is it vigorous enough to count? My wife has no problem, but she did not learn how to properly wash hands like they do in the medical field. She just rubs her hands vigorously.

 

[lelisa13p]

Also in California, USA. Thanks for the reminder. Covid-19 scrubbing seems to require more resources to be effective. The timer's really almost a novelty feature; I'm back to singing "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" in my head again, just like in Kindergarten. LOL

 

[Aspasia]

Any handwashing timer users tried WatchOS 7.3.2 yet? The update notification just showed up on my Watch S4 today. As I said earlier, my experience with timer performance using WatchOS 7.1 was perfect (that function was a new one) but then 7.2 broke it and no subsequent updates have fixed the handwashing timer. Any hope for 7.3.2? Currently timer is hit or miss. I just wish reliable feedback/haptic/sounds function was restored. (I realize this is not a world crisis problem but it's annoying.)

Updated WatchOS overnight. Handwashing timer worked for me using 7.2 and again this morning with 7.3.2. That said, my watch also sometimes thinks I'm washing my hands when I'm cooking, brushing my hair, putting on hiking boots and rinsing dishes. But it does ask me if I'm washing my hands so I can respond accordingly. I'm enrolled in a health study which does include hand washing, so maybe my watch is more attentive to hand movements or what it hears.

 

[jest3rd]

It hardly ever works for me. It seems like a waste of time...

 

[minimo3]

The stupid thing kicks in whenever I put on hand moisturizer. It’s about as effective as the stand activity that prompts me to stand up when I’ve been doing so for the last hour at my standing desk.

 

[Jenniferpilcher]

The hand washing feature is a total disappointment. Like others’ comments, I need the timer to simply work and tell me when 20 is up! The timer is always way too late. It also does not remind me when returning home to wash like it is supposed to. I also do not feel the haptics. Need the beginning and ending beeps too, so we aren’t raising our wrists to see the status.