Handbrake file shows white screen in QT, but is ok in VLC, when used decomb

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by Cox Orange, Apr 28, 2014.

  1. Cox Orange macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #1
    Hi,

    when I encode a DV file to x.264 with Handbrake (9.0.4, Mac OS 10.5.8 PowerPC) and choose deinterlace or decomb, the resulting file is a QT file that gets displayed with a white screen plus audio. If I open that file in VLC I can see the video.

    So, what is wrong with Quicktime or, if not, what is wrong with Handbrake.

    Also, for decomb, you can choose custom. A little field will open, where you can type something in. But what am I supposed to type in.

    Thanks.
     
  2. ColdCase macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    NH
    #2
    Dunno why, but I get this when there is some corruption in the source video. QT doesn't seem to handle it as well as VLC. When I use handbrake to convert to MKV, and use another app like compressor or iVI light to make a prores for editing, the video result seems to be fine.
     
  3. Chad3eleven macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    #3
    Sounds like a codec issue.

    VLC contains many codecs that otherwise have to be installed separatly in other programs to view content (quicktime for example)

    When you have white for video in quicktime, that means the codec is not present.. so search around and get the .264 codec for quicktime and install it.. and you should be able to view it.
     
  4. Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #4
    Hm, I don't know. I have perian for QT and also there is the x/h.264 encoder that came with iMovie and Handbrake and one that I downloaded from the net (from 2007), or do the encoders not come with decoders?
     
  5. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #5
    Official h.264 has been the QuickTime default codec for years.
     
  6. Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #6
    I found something funny. When I choose different settings for picture dimensions or cropping, the same h.264 video is viewable in QT.

    At the moment I have a problem to figure out, what is the right dimensions, to make the video as it is really. Of course keep aspect ratio should do that, but that's not everything.

    Handbrake seems to save it as anamorphic video. Saving it as 720x and the player then shows it in the right 768 (though it says it is 769) for the LCD.

    Also, it autocropps the letterboxing bars. This video is a 16:9 video that was recorder on a 4:3 Tube-TV with the bars.
    Everything seems to be fine, if I choose "strict" and let it crop the bars and the 2x8 empty pixels at the left/right.

    Handbrake defaults to:
    input 720x576
    output 704x400
    anamorphic 769x400

    If I choose any other option or customize the cropping (with 0 lines above and under) the anamporphic disappears.
    How do I get Handbrake to do the right picture size for an LCD of 768x576?

    I would make a screenshot, of what I mean, if the screenshot application would not make the settings window disappear.
     
  7. Cox Orange, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #7
    I repeated it and did encodes with variing picture formats and that seems to really affect, if QT can show a picture or not, for some reason.

    Apart from that I am a bit puzzled as to what would be the right setting, if I just want the same 4:3 picture as it is originally, but set for LCDs.

    Handbrake cuts off 8 pixels on each side and the result is 704, which then with anamorphic is turned into 769. If I let these 2x8 pixels stay and have 720, it turns it into 786 (mind 786, not 768).

    More strange, if I tell Handbrake not to crop anything and keep aspect ratio and turn anamorphic off, it gives me 528 pixels for the vertical axis.

    That is a bit confusing for me.

    I did several tests an made screenshots, but the I decided, it would perhaps not help much. Anyway here are some.

    The file with the name "handbrake suggest1" is what it automatically chooses. The "iMovie 1" ist from the iMovie project DV-file opened in QT.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Cox Orange, May 2, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #8
    This is how mediainfo displays the information on the iMovie-project-file (which itself is DV). Mind the resoltution.

    Edit: added clarificational sentences
     

    Attached Files:

  9. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #9
    You have been barking up the wrong tree. It appears that your video tracks are in the DV format with PCM audio-track format. These are editable camera formats in contrast to h.264, which is a storage format. Back in 2011, Apple made available to the general public a set of codecs for editable formats that shipped with Final Cut Pro. ProApps QuickTime Codecs 1.0.4, the latest version release just this year, is available for free download here.
     
  10. KeithPratt macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    #10
    Try the following settings:

    Crop left: 8
    Crop right: 8
    Crop top: 72
    Crop bottom: 72

    Resolution: 704x432

    Anamorphic: Custom
    Display width: 768
     
  11. Cox Orange, May 3, 2014
    Last edited: May 3, 2014

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #11
    NO!!!!!!! Only the original DV file from the iMovie project folder is DV.
    When I convert it with Handbrake it is h.264, which I chose.
    You may be confused by the screenshots.

    The more detailed one is of the DV file, same as the one of the follow up post.
    The smaller rectangular, dark pictures are from the settings window of Handbrake, just before I encode to h.264. If, you like, I can upload a picture of after the encode.
    The pictures were only to show the dimensions problems.
    But Handbrake, wants me to type something in an empty field, if I choose "anamorphic: custom".
    Also, I would rather like to keep the letterboxing, so that on a 16:9 TV/LCD the picture does not get bigger and blurry. What I want to say with this is. If I crop the black letterboxing bars, I get a 16:9 picture, which would fill the whole screen of the TV/LCD. If I keep them, I will have a 4:3 picture with letterboxing in the movie itself, plus(!) Bookends (I don't mean the little black overscan bars). So I can force the viewable area to be smaller.

    The movie shows fine in QT with:
    Crop left: 8
    Crop right: 8
    Crop top: 74 (4 is different from your 72)
    Crop bottom: 72
    Resolution: 704x430
    Anamorphic: strict
    Display width: 768

    But that is only the white screen issue. What I was adressing with my post about not knowing which format etc. to choose, is about that I get the picture itself show right, without having it slightly squeezed or squished.

    While Handbrake wants to crop 74, instead of 72, does that mean, if I want to keep the letterboxing baars and have the picture in the right aspect, I will have to tell it to
    Crop left: 8
    Crop right: 8
    Crop top: 2 (<--- though I guess this would end in missing some of the 567))
    Crop bottom: 0
    Resolution: 704x567
    Anamorphic: strict (769x567 <--- though I find it still strange, that it wants 869 instead of 868)
    Display width: 768

    I found this http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech3/theory-videoaspectratios.html

    So, the LCD-TV wants 704 instead of 720 (when anamorph is not applied yet)???
    This would fit the observation that I get "anamorphic: 786", when I choose 720.
    - So the question is, if the picture really has the right dimensions, when I choose 704 and if I have to choose "top+bottom crop 0" when I want to keep the top+bottom black letter boxing bars.
     
  12. KeithPratt macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    #12
    Some encoders/decoders have issues with resolutions not evenly divisible by 16. If you want to keep the letterboxing, then try the following settings:

    Crop left: 8
    Crop right: 8
    Crop top: 0
    Crop bottom: 0

    Resolution: 704x576

    Anamorphic: Custom
    Display width: 768

    The Display Width should be set to 768.
     
  13. Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #13
    I will try that.

    For now...
    I did some more tests, with 720 and with 704 and with or without anamorphic.

    All are visible in QT, and surprise QT is very good. It does show every movie right. nothing gets squished or whatever. Even, if I do NOT choose anamorphic. It seems to diplay 720 as anamorphic.

    If I do not crop anything, QT lets just the window be bigger, but the area, where there is colour does always have the same sizes. That is perfect. So one can really screw it, but QT will always show it right (at least, if it does not show the white screen ;)).

    Something strange though with the LCD-TV. Even with that, what should be right, it does cut off part of the picture or squeezes it.

    Example: you would expect that the black area left+right, that one can't see on a Tube-TV, will be seen, but that is not shown.
    The bookends of the 16:9 LCD-TV even reach into the couloured parts.

    Imagine a movie that shows a row of letters:
    black 8 pixels, A, B, C, D, E, F, black 8 pixels.

    The cheap LCD-TV I have will cut off of the A and the F, if I tell Handbrake to crop 8 left+right.

    AND!!! The cheap LCD-TV I have, will cut off half of the A and the F, if I tell Handbrake to crop 0 left+right.

    This is a bit of a problem.
    I would expect the Tube to not show parts of the coulored area, but the LCD-TV should show the whole picture for my taste. But it doesn't.
     
  14. Chad3eleven macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    #14
    default? how do you figure? Quicktime plays most compliant files, nothing being default. I work as a video editor.. nothing truly is default, its all based on user selection.

    I wasnt entirely clear, I was referring to x.264 codec.

    ----------

    I'm at a loss..

    What is your source clip? and what is your target use?

    Are you trying to export something captured in iMovie and display it on a TV?

    Why handbrake? Are you ripping a DVD?

    And you need to understand a bit more about video, video compression, and then monitors.. spending all this time trying to crop it right isnt needed.

    How are you playing this clip on this LCD? Is it hooked up to a computer?

    Also, there are display modes on TVs.. such as stretch, full, zoom, fish tank, etc.. those can affect how this clip is being displayed.

    Also, different TVs handle the edges differently.. this is what we call the Live area... there are guides we abide by, 2 of them are 'action safe' and 'title safe'.. I have 3 monitors in my edit suite, and the largest one (a prosummer panasonic) cuts off a little more of the image then the 2 panasonic professional broadcast monitors.. it cuts off almost to the action safe area, which is 10% of the width of the image. Just the way it is.

    For compressing, try mpeg stream clip.. handbrake is fine for somethings, but I tend to use streamclip, adobe media encoder or compressor.
     
  15. Cox Orange, May 8, 2014
    Last edited: May 8, 2014

    Cox Orange thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2010
    #15
    the source is:
    DVB-S-Signal from TV (or eventually an old family video recorded with vhs-c-camera) recorded on VHS-Player (back, when I did not have a DVB-S set top box that could record itself).
    This VHS tape is captured via SCART to Thompson Canopus ADVC-300 and from there via Firewire to iMovie.
    iMovie saves files as DV. I cut off trash and scenes I don't like. Save. Now, iMovie keeps the whole data exact same file size. 20GB stays 20GB, no matter how much you cut off. (iMovie up to 4 did really delete cut off data, a file would be smaller, because minutes are missing).

    What is my aim?:
    The movie should also show a circle as a circle and not an egg, even not a minimal slightly egg-like circle.
    To save space on HDD and to keep the source in the quality, that is was captured at, I export it already cut/edited as DV file.
    [Don't let the following info get into your brain, it will disturb the understanding flow, just a side note - I lately discovered that iMovie does change this DV file (from the project folder) to DVCpro during export, though, wich means a loss, if you plan to later encode it once more (to h.264).
    So, I now use mpegstreamclip to cut DV, because it lets you save the file just without the edited/cut scene, but does nothing to the file format, if you use "save as". Later I encode this file to x.264/h.264. But I always keeep the DV file as source backup. For x.264 I use Handbrake, because it has newer h.264 codecs than mpegstreamclip (that uses the one from iMovie) or iMovie. Also I added free x.264 codecs, I found on the internet, but the latest compatible with PowerPCs was from 2007. Handbrakes built in x.264 is nearly up to date and is from the ffmpegX project.
    You may aks, why do you not directly encode with iMovie to h.264. Because the Handbrake has the better x.264 codec and Mpegstreamclip can't access this, while it automatically can acces the one from Apple that came with iMovie and the ones I additionally installed]

    What is my target?
    I want to have a h.264/x.264 file that I can play on the mediaplayer that is built into my DVB-S set top box. This box can be connected to a 4:3 Tube TV and a LCD 16:9 TV.
    The DV file was captured as 4:3 (though movie is actually 16:9, but with the black bars added it is 4:3), I want to keep the black letterboxing bars, so that this file does not get blown till it fits the 16:9 screen and it will be less sharp. But, if I keep it with the black bars, it will be 4:3. The 16:9 LCD TV will have to show it in the center, not maximizing or zooming it and it will add bookends to the left and right. The coloured pieces of the movie is smaller and I "waste" room for black bars, but I gain sharpness. And don't say, I should just sit away more meters from my TV. ;)

    On top of that my DV file has a small black bar at the left and right, this has nothing to do with bookends. I supposed, that this was the Overscan-area (do you use that word in englisch, too?), but I learned, it is something historical, overscan is something different. The black left and right are 8Pixels, that are put to it to make 704 be 720.

    Now, in another forum a professional measured my soruce file and said, that the signal was screwed, 52µs was turned into 53,3µs which resulted in a very slightly smaller/squished picture. The computer during capture thought "this is not big enough, so I will ad black to left and right". I thought to do me a favour, but in fact. I will need a NLE to repair that 53,3µs back to 52µs.

    BUT, even if the movie was standard 4:3 I find that Handbrake seems to not quiet do, what guides tell me, it should do. (Why does it make 788 out of 720 anamorphic? If I keep 704, as sugguested by Handbrake, with cropped/cut off 8 Pixels left and right, the height is only 528, instead of 567.)

    analogue video, digitalized with a/d-changer-box,
    software to take the digital output of that box is iMovie.
    I could now tell iMovie to send/export "that is encode" the movie as DV, h.264, divx, jepgA etc., but I want the superb x.264 of Handbrake.
    So what can I do?
    I open the original DV file that can be found hidden in the project folder of iMovie and then I let it encode by Handbrake.
    Now I would have a .mov file with a x.264 file in it.
    That file I would put on an USB stick and then stick it into a mediaplayer connected to a Tube-TV and LCD-TV. I also will watch that file on my ibooks built in LCD.

    Handbrake can do far more than ripping DVDs (I use mactheripper for that, btw., I won't go into detail).
    Handbrake for encoding DV to something other, because it has the newest codecs for PowerPC Macs.
    I am not cropping. I am trying to find the right resolution and what Handbrake thinks is right. (That Handbrake intially suguested to crop the letterbox bars, is understandable and I did not alow that. It is different with the 2x 8 Pixel left and right. Some guides suguest they have to bee kept and others say they must be deleted. (read what they say http://www.animemusicvideos.org/guides/avtech3/theory-videoaspectratios.html unfortunately, the other more detailed professional guide is german, so I don't link that)

    I know, that old Tube TVs have an area that is not seen, even if the picture has seeable objects there. Then there is the overscan area (should be roughly 6% I learned). The question is, do the 2x 8 Pixels left+right belong to the movie or not. Furthermore, will a circle be a circle on a 4:3 TV? If the 2x8 Pixels belong to the movie, the circle will not be a circle on a Tube (let aside, that there will be more seeable content not seen at the boarders), if the 2x8 pixels do not belong to it, then will the circle will not be a circle, perhaps, because what is right on the Mac might show differently on the TV.

    Also, shouldn't a LCD-TV show every coloured content from a movie? (i.e. only a Tube has areas around that lay outside of the viewable area). But my LCD-TV does also not show the whole picture.

    I know, additionally, the TV has to be set right. I can't feed 14:9 cienma stuff to it and tell him use 4:3 and zoom in. a big portion of the movie will be out of the TV screen. When I want to show 16:9 and not zoom in, I shows, fit 16:9 in 4:3. 4:3 needs to add black bars.
    Since my file is a 4:3, where the black bars allready belong to the movie and the movie is not a 16:9 anymore, my 4:3 TV must be set, to correctly show a 4:3 movie. Which it is. (My 16:9 LCD TV is set to show a 4:3 movie without zooming in. It just does it so, that the height matches the upper and lower plastic frame of the TV. The width will get Bookends, so that the 4:3 movie does not get "torn".

    put h.264 file on usb stick, hook up usb stick to media player, media player hooked up to TV.
    Other way. Let file sit on HDD open in QT or VLC and watch on screen of ibook (the historic predecessor of the MacBook).

    Third way, whih I did not test: hook up mini-VGA-to-SCART Apple connector to ibook, connect other end to TV. Let ibook choose "external monitor", though I am not sure, the ibook will choose a TV aspect resolution. I think it will use something 5:4 computerish.

    But a circle should be a circle, if I set it to show a 4:3 movie as 4:3 on a 4:3 TV, right?

    I knew, that Tubes do that, but do LCDs do that, too? But, even if the boarder parts are lost, shouldn't be a circle a circle?

    See above. Better codec in Handbrake. Also better advanced options for pxel estimation, CABAC, setting frames etc.

    ------------
    Apart from that I have another question. I said I use mpegstreamclip to cut/edit the DV stream, to keep it as DV - and that iMovie changes the DV file.
    In iMovie you have several options to export a DV file:
    a) use "save as" -> highest quality (no options to set) -> product will be DVCpro (if the source was interlaced, it will have the combing)
    b) use "save as DV-stream" -> it will give you options and you have to set interlaced or progressive. In both cases, the combing will disappear and it will be a DV file. (I wonder, how apply interlacing to an interlaced source can result in combing being eliminated)
    c) save as QT-movie or save as avi -> you can choose DV or DVCpro or DVCpro50, but you will again have to choose interlaced or progressive. With both settings the resulting file will be without the interlaced typical combing, that the original captured DV file had. (I would prefer to not make a DVCpro whatever file out of a DV file. Because, if I later want to transform that into a h.264 movie, the details that got lost from DV to DVCpro, will be helpful, if they are still there, I assume.

    So question, can interlacing an interlaced source result in decombing/deinterlacing?
     
  16. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Location:
    USA
    #16
    You misunderstand the term default. The term default has nothing to do with what the QuickTime Player can play. If you save a standard .mov video in the QuickTime Player, then its video track is h.264 and its audio track is AAC. You may chose other formats, but they are not chosen automatically.
     

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