MisterMe
macrumors G4
Compressed video is not a manufactured good for which the defect rate can be used as a quality metric. What would you use as the metric for this quantitative analysis?
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Handbrake now includes H.265 but....
- Thread starter absolut_mac
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masotime
macrumors 68030
Perhaps I'm not using the right words. What I mean is a mathematical pixel-by-pixel analysis of the outputs to objectively compare the quality of the outputs, rather than doing an eyeball of the quality which is highly subjective.
wlossw
macrumors 65816
Try the tunespan app if you want to store your library over multiple drives.
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
I've always kept my iTunes library on a separate referenced HD (as large as I want it to be & or is available) which currently is a 4TB RAID. So there is not an issue with running out or having to worry about storage space for iTunes media.
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
Why referenced? It's a standard feature you can put it anywhere you want and it currently is on an external USB drive with 3TB capacity.
However, I need even more and being able to use multiple drives without the need for RAID would seem like a nice touch.
Glassed Silver:mac
I think you can use multiple, separate (not RAID) drives in iTunes. However, only in the sense that iTunes can read the media, and remember the locations of the media, in a referenced style set-up. So, for example, a friend gives you a USB external HDD with all their iTunes media, you can simply plug this in, uncheck "copy new media to iTunes library" in preferences and drag the contents of the new external into iTunes and iTunes will index it and add it to your library without moving any of the media - so iTunes will be reading media from more than one location
If you want to add media to a more than 1 external HDD iTunes set up, then iTunes will only add to your designated media location. I guess you could go on like this, but it would involve constant re-indexing and maintenance every time a new external is added. Not really practical.
phrehdd
Contributor
Rather interesting conversation. Best I recall is that h.265 offers about 15-24 percent reduced size as compared to H.264 for same "quality" output. Assuming one sets it for about 25 percent reduced size, they can generate 4 files and get a 5th file thrown in for the same amount of space as doing an h.264 conversion. That certainly does add up on a hard drive but perhaps of little value on an i-device.
Perhaps a more prudent test would be to convert each using the same file, same bitrate, same SIZE output. Chances are the H.265, properly handled should be superior. In terms of creation of files for streaming that are 2k/4k, that 25 percent makes a huge difference of the actual streaming.
There are forums elsewhere that discuss H.265 vs 264 (and V9) in greater detail with some comparisons which can give far more clear information with better tests involved. As for me, the less compression the better unless it is for an i-device.
Perhaps a more prudent test would be to convert each using the same file, same bitrate, same SIZE output. Chances are the H.265, properly handled should be superior. In terms of creation of files for streaming that are 2k/4k, that 25 percent makes a huge difference of the actual streaming.
There are forums elsewhere that discuss H.265 vs 264 (and V9) in greater detail with some comparisons which can give far more clear information with better tests involved. As for me, the less compression the better unless it is for an i-device.
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
Ah right, yeah but I want iTunes to manage all those folders.
So yeah, as per usual with Apple, they only really cater to the simplest solution.
As soon as you have a slightly more advanced use case you have to do tricks and workarounds, basically leaving the world of "it just works" and entering beta world with unsupported tools etc...
I could have a software-RAID, but as with any RAID, you depend on the controller, in this case software.
I wouldn't even mind having a big enclosure on my desk with multiple drives in JBOD, all I want is iTunes to handle multiple drives without having to do a lot of tricks or using multiple iTunes libraries, which is unacceptable.
I know this is a niche need in Apple's eyes and I'm not EXPECTING them to cater to this, all I'm saying is that I'd love this to be added.
(I'm adding this, because this forum likes to take apart niche needs and tell people to suck it up basically or "go Android/PC/<insert any alternative here>")
Depending on the file in question you can get easily 50% savings, some even way more than that if you're willing to take some slightly more visible quality loss. (really slight)
This is true when encoding anime, I've tested it and really cranked down the file size and lo and behold, I was able to get a third or fourth of the original file size and the trade off was pretty acceptable.
For source quality storage I would go with ~50%-40%, depending on the files, anime can easily be squeezed a little more (which is already the case on H.264) and for iDevices, say some on-the-fly encoding or as a second copy as it is handled already I'd easily be okay with much more compression with said slight decrease in picture quality.
Glassed Silver:mac
phrehdd
Contributor
I understand your thinking about 50-40% but you did mentiont hat was anime which is of course, not the same as regular movies. I'll stand by what I have said about the reduction size for near equivalent PQ. I would never compare animation to regular movies but will agree that you are probably correct that animation certainly can be compressed further with far less loss of quality. This btw is evident on large screen TV as opposed to an i-device.
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
I
Anime can be compressed even more down to a third or fourth of its original file size and still maintain PQ that can be rated as good to pretty good.
I was test watching these files on my iMac by the way, so well beyond the resolution needed on 27".
Then again, it's a very personal choice how much compression you're happy with, but H.265 indeed does free up considerable storage space and I wished Apple was a bit more progressive beyond just including it for Facetime.
Maybe they'll unlock it this year when they have both a last gen and current gen lineup ready for it, whilst a late-summer refresh of the Apple TV could unlock H.265 as well with the Mac and PC running iTunes being the long waiting devices that are well ready already if not with hardware decoders then with the beefier CPUs and GPUs making for good software-based playback.
Ugh, my Mac has been ready the minute H.265 was released, it's iDevices that are holding us up as so often.
Glassed Silver:ios
I'm referring to regular movies with the 50-40% savings.
Anime can be compressed even more down to a third or fourth of its original file size and still maintain PQ that can be rated as good to pretty good.
I was test watching these files on my iMac by the way, so well beyond the resolution needed on 27".
Then again, it's a very personal choice how much compression you're happy with, but H.265 indeed does free up considerable storage space and I wished Apple was a bit more progressive beyond just including it for Facetime.
Maybe they'll unlock it this year when they have both a last gen and current gen lineup ready for it, whilst a late-summer refresh of the Apple TV could unlock H.265 as well with the Mac and PC running iTunes being the long waiting devices that are well ready already if not with hardware decoders then with the beefier CPUs and GPUs making for good software-based playback.
Ugh, my Mac has been ready the minute H.265 was released, it's iDevices that are holding us up as so often.
Glassed Silver:ios
wlossw
macrumors 65816
I believe only iPhone 6/ iPad Air 2 has the capacity for h265... The current atv3 isn't powerful enough, and lacks the dedicated hardware decoder. If we see a new atv today, or later this year, perhaps that will support h265.
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
That's exactly what I'm saying. 🙂
What I meant by last-gen is when new hardware releases this year, it will be last-gen (now current-gen) and then current-gen (from today's perspective next-gen) that will be capable.
AppleTV 3 still being lugged around after today is a huge letdown that we had been speculating on for a week now, now we've got confirmation that Apple want the whole licensing and content trara with the AppleTV launch together, having us wait even longer for a matured AppleTV that's being overtaken by competitors.
Oh well...
Glassed Silver:mac
I don't feel h.265 is worth it until 2k/4k becomes mainstream, which is at least 5 years away. As storage prices go down every year, will there come a point in time where we won't need to compress digital media, as in CD's, and Blurays?
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
Yes, probably, but that time is in the far more distant future than 4K or even 8K.
If there was an equivalent in video to audio's FLAC or ALAC and my entire collection and then some would fit onto one or two of the bigger capacity drives I'd be on that train in a heartbeat, but until then it doesn't make sense to hold back technology that is readily available and can solve a problem a lot of people have.
Full HD isn't exactly small either you know.
Glassed Silver:mac
Riven Lee
macrumors newbie
apple suported h.264 format by h.264codec, perhaps the video format you mantion is h.265 codec that apple has not supported yet. the best way to this situation is to convert the video to h.264 codec formot.
Glassed Silver
macrumors 68020
Hmm, something tells me you didn't quite get why I need H.265 in the first place.
I know H.264 is supported and that's how it's set up atm, but I want to switch to H.265 so the files are smaller.
Glassed Silver:mac
Actually, the h.265 codec has been in handbrake for the last year or two. You had to specifically choose it in the codec selection. It was not part of the presets. The similar quality with smaller file size, is due to the extremely long encoding time. As in anything, there are trade-offs. If you want smaller files, it uses more processor in the encoding stage ... if you want faster encoding, you need more processor on the playback side. The h.265 would play on my ipad when using VLC. From what I was told, Facetime, uses the h.265 codec for its encoding. Perhaps that is why it played without a problem on the ipad. Additionally, on the Mac Pro, the "nightly builds" versions did play h.265 back. That was just before they released the 2.x versions of VLC.