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So I take it you’re not in the creator/film industry or even a professional at all for that matter, because if you were, you wouldn’t be making a comment like this, which also leads me to believe that you’re probably not fully informed on what this machine is capable of.

Are you in the creator/film industry RP? And by that I don't mean do you have a Youtube channel, but do you work at an actual network or studio, or a production company that provides content to a network or studio?

Because no one in gfx or the edit suites at my network see the value in changing our upgrading our present set up (HP workstations for edit suites, trashcans for gfx suites) to the new Mac Pro. The consensus opinion seems to be that the marginal benefit of upgrading is minimal to nonexistent while the marginal cost is jaw-dropingly high. What information are you speaking of that we all supposedly lack?
 
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In spite of some of the experts and pros in this thread, I know people that work in film and animation for large studios and they are already planning on getting rack mounted version for their workflows. This is not a product for your home office. Its for companies that get handsome tax deductions spread over decent depreciation schedules that need a reliable workhorse.

Can you build a faster benchmark machine for a fraction of the cost, probably. But would you really put it in an environment with scores of expensive employees that charges in tenth of an hour intervals?
 
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It’s comments like this which make me wonder at times whether a lot of the “demand” for a new Mac Pro is actually coming from PC users who knew that Apple’s solution would cost a ton of money, just so they would get the ammo they need to step in and criticise.

I would actually encourage management at my company to upgrade our gfx department to the new Mac Pro, but that's only because I secretly want to buy one of the old trashcan Macs the new Mac Pro's would replace at one of our network's garage sales. 😂
 
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Its not pointless at all. I am actually thinking about ordering close to the base model. Upgrading the CPU to 12 core, and that is all. I am mainly a developer who would love to run multiple simulators without my computer throttling. I also do some after effects and photoshop stuff but not a lot. Xcode, VMs, and Dockers all running at once use a lot of my current MacBook Pro. To the point the RAM and CPU are maxed and its constantly throttling.. so the base Mac Pro is potentially my fix. the iMac Pro is probably better options but I DO NOT want another monitor. I love the 5k, but do not want my monitor attached to my computer.
nobody here thinking like you vm /docker need a lot of memory and compiling speed. All thinking video editing(most of youtuber), image editing those 50 megapixel per picture just want to browse image .

** I always on peak 8 GB ram on my 21 " imac and have optimize to max whatever here like external ssd, memory usage and so on. The only i hate mac, window and linux they don't have option like performance for "service" which i can stop non wanted.

** some people also think programmer just need vi/notepad to type and no need powerful machine to run visual studio, jet brain.. ( uhk ,uhk , my ram)
 
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I wouldn't say a overall loss leader, but definitely at lower profit margins than Intel. Like modern technology, CPUs require a huge amount of engineering to design and test the product.

My understanding is that for Intel, on a whole, these non-recurring engineering costs are about the same as the direct cost to make a CPU. Any company has to recover all of their costs, or else they will go out of business eventually. They also need to make a fair profit. How these costs and profit are divided up among market lines can be varied.

For nearly all tech companies, including AMD, Intel, Nvidia, Microsoft, etc., these costs are put more into the high end. For example, if you're Amazon and a server is bringing in $50,000 of revenue over its life, you can afford to pay $1000 of costs and profit to Intel. Whereas, if you're a home user, you don't want to spend more than $800 on a computer, you pay a much smaller share, maybe $100 on a $300 CPU.

What if you divided it up evenly? Amazon would love to pay $550 instead, but simultaneously, as a home user, you wouldn't buy a $750 CPU. So Intel would only be able to get $550, not $1100. They'd have to make a crappier product, or go out of business.

However, you're getting the same CPU core, which is why when you divide speed by cost, the higher-end CPUs seem less optimal.

Companies also want to recover their costs as soon as possible. You want the cash back quickly to reduce uncertainty and be ready to invest in something else, the next generation.

This all gives companies some knobs to tweak. Do you recover the costs quickly, charging more, or slowly? How much of the costs do you charge the low end vs high end? By accepting a lower profit, spending less in R&D, taking a longer return on investment, and adjusting the cost distribution, you
In spite of some of the experts and pros in this thread, I know people that work in film and animation for large studios and they are already planning on getting rack mounted version for their workflows. This is not a product for your home office. Its for companies that get handsome tax deductions spread over decent depreciation schedules that need a reliable workhorse.

Can you build a faster benchmark machine for a fraction of the cost, probably. But would you really put it in an environment with scores of expensive employees that charges in tenth of an hour intervals?

In 10 years i want one. By then it will still be ridiculously overkill for anything i can throw at it... But it would be fun to have. The case itself will still be an engineering marvel, even if tech has moved on.
 
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It is a comparison to illustrate my point, which is that the base model Mac Pro, expensive as it is, is not a very powerful machine for pro tasks such as 3d rendering, machine learning, simulation, photogrammetry processing etc.
No one will be buying the base model for anything except to subsequently fill it with whatever they want. That’s the point. Otherwise they’d get an iMac Pro.
 
I've been a pro Mac user since the PowerMac G4 days and have since owned PowerMac G5s and Mac Pros, but, like others on here, I also don't see who the new MacPro is for and it certainly doesn't seem to provide an upgrade path from the trash can MacPro.

I just keep seeing comments saying that the MacPro is for "true professionals" who need that power and that there are no alternatives that are any cheaper and that anyone questioning the price is just jealous that they can't afford a "superior" machine and that if you don't understand why it's so expensive then it isn't for you. Again, I'm a huge Apple fan (I don't even know how many PowerBooks, MacBook Pros, iPods, iPhones, iPads, AppleTVs, and Mac Desktops I've owned over the past 15 or so years), but it seems like anyone that doesn't think these machines are far overpriced for anyone but a very niche market is just a blind Apple fanboy.

Sure, for users that need insane amounts of RAM and VRAM (applications likely limited to intense scientific calculations and crazily complex 3D rendering), the super high end MacPros might be a worthwhile investment, but for all other pros, there are definitely more cost effective alternatives. Even 8K RAW video editing benefits very little from more than 11GB of VRAM in some DaVinci Resolve testing I've seen.

The base model almost seems like a joke. $6000 gets you about the same performance as a high end iMac. $10000 gets you a machine that's matched by a $1000 Ryzen CPU and a $1000 2080Ti. A Threadripper and a pair of 2080 Tis would likely match the performance of even the highest end MacPro CPUs and GPUs for less than the cost of the base mode. Plus, Threadripper 3990X (which is powerful enough to playback 24FPS 8K Redcode RAW without any GPU acceleration) and Nvidia Ampere GPUs are right around the corner, making the MacPro already feel even more overpriced and outdated.

And if you still think Threadripper isn't for professionals:
 
this is outdated thinking. Whilst cuda is a current thing. All pro software developers have come out in support or metal and will be releasing new versions to use the Mac Pro.

IF cuda is a current thing, then wouldn't Promostyle's opinion be current thinking rather than outdated thinking and wouldn't industry pledges of support be future (or wishful) thinking? The graphics people I work with all regard the lack as cuda support as a non-starter. And considering the high cost of the Mac Pro, I can't imagine a responsible purchasing department pulling the trigger to upgrade on the promise that at some point in the future the software we use will probably be optimized for the Mac Pro.

I remember support being pledged to Final Cut Pro X by production companies and to the Mac platform by gaming companies, but FCPX remains an also ran among networks, studios and production houses and the Mac has failed to materialize as a gaming platform. Promises and commitments of this kind have no value in a daily production workflow. If Apple's ideal future materializes, only then does in make sense to factor it into your purchasing decisions.
 
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No one will be buying the base model for anything except to subsequently fill it with whatever they want. That’s the point. Otherwise they’d get an iMac Pro.

And just what do people plan on filling the base model MacPro with?
-A couple SATA drives?
-SSD upgrades can only be performed by Apple and are proprietary modules.
-There's no Nvida support.
-As of right now only Apple MPX modules are officially supported for graphics.

What do people really want to add to a fairly low-spec machine that they're willing to pay more than twice as much (and give up a display) versus a high-end iMac?
 
And just what do people plan on filling the base model MacPro with?
-A couple SATA drives?
-SSD upgrades can only be performed by Apple and are proprietary modules.
-There's no Nvida support.
-As of right now only Apple MPX modules are officially supported for graphics.

What do people really want to add to a fairly low-spec machine that they're willing to pay more than twice as much (and give up a display) versus a high-end iMac?
If apple can swap the ssd then maybe we can too, there is probably a utility to reset the t2. remains to be seen. also m2 drives for storage ? remains to be seen.... same with non standard video cards ! early days. bummer about nvidia of course :(
 
nobody here thinking like you vm /docker need a lot of memory and compiling speed. All thinking video editing(most of youtuber), image editing those 50 megapixel per picture just want to browse image .

** I always on peak 8 GB ram on my 21 " imac and have optimize to max whatever here like external ssd, memory usage and so on. The only i hate mac, window and linux they don't have option like performance for "service" which i can stop non wanted.

** some people also think programmer just need vi/notepad to type and no need powerful machine to run visual studio, jet brain.. ( uhk ,uhk , my ram)
Real programmers only need vi. :)
 
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but it seems like anyone that doesn't think these machines are far overpriced for anyone but a very niche market is just a blind Apple fanboy.

You don’t think that the design of the Mac Pro contributes to that price? The case, PSU and motherboard look like they would cost more than $2500 minimum.

It’s expensive, but doesn’t seem overpriced in that context. You are just paying a lot upfront for the hardware, which while not contributing anything directly spec-wise, is integral to the device working as intended. So the only way it makes financial sense (compared to the iMac Pro) is to spec it to the point where this fixed cost makes up just a small proportion of the final price of the Mac Pro overall.

In a sense, it feels like complaining that after paying the entrance fee to get into Disneyland, you don’t have much money left to try out any of the other attractions. If you want the full experience, you better be prepared to spend. Else, there are cheaper alternatives.

I don’t think I am being a blind fanboy by pointing this out. Yes, it targets a very niche market (and naturally has a price tag that takes this into consideration), and that’s just the reality of how Apple has decided to position and market this product.
 
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And just what do people plan on filling the base model MacPro with?
-SSD upgrades can only be performed by Apple and are proprietary modules.

No, M.2 on PCIe cards should work at least as secondary storage. They work in external chassis on all existing platforms.

What do people really want to add to a fairly low-spec machine that they're willing to pay more than twice as much (and give up a display) versus a high-end iMac?

The GPU options are still superior to the iMac Pro. If your task runs largely on the GPU, then you don't need an expensive CPU. The extreme example of this was cryptocurrency mining, but also tasks like some machine learning and some graphics/video. (Look at the Xbox One X: a mid-high end GPU stuck with a netbook CPU).

Some people don't want a display because they have a setup anyway, like a mixing console. They'd rather rack mount the computer out of the way, and they can't use a Mac mini.

And you can add a ton of RAM. For a lot of problems, you're limited by RAM.
 
This Mac Pro is not for professionals who need alot of power because.
1. No AMD Epyc 64-core CPU’s
2. No dual socket option for 128-core AMD Epyc CPU’s.
3. No CUDA support.

Even a non-server AMD (TH) build is more powerful than a Mac Pro.
 
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You forgot to mention that a cheap midrange gaming PC with a Threadripper is much, MUCH faster than this $6,000 thing.

An iPad Pro has more storage and basically comparable CPU performance. That is just... embarrassing.

"cheap midrange threadripper"

what the hell kind of gaming PC's are you building that are "cheap midrange" and possess a threadripper? if you are building for other people, cease that behavior immediately as you are completely shafting your associates.

what kind of pc purpose built for gaming requires a CPU with that many cores?
 
"cheap midrange threadripper"

what the hell kind of gaming PC's are you building that are "cheap midrange" and possess a threadripper? if you are building for other people, cease that behavior immediately as you are completely shafting your associates.

what kind of pc purpose built for gaming requires a CPU with that many cores?

I am not talking about playing games. I am talking about bucketed raytracing rendering, in which case you do want 32 cores.
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No one will be buying the base model for anything except to subsequently fill it with whatever they want. That’s the point. Otherwise they’d get an iMac Pro.

Exactly right - that is my point too. The $6,000 base model is not good value. You’re paying $6,000 just so you can begin to spec it up from there.
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It’s comments like this which make me wonder at times whether a lot of the “demand” for a new Mac Pro is actually coming from PC users who knew that Apple’s solution would cost a ton of money, just so they would get the ammo they need to step in and criticise.

I am a Mac user who has used Macs since the early 90’s and I own many Macs. But I also have a job to do,for which I would like to use the Mac Pro, if only it made sense.
 
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It is a comparison to illustrate my point, which is that the base model Mac Pro, expensive as it is, is not a very powerful machine for pro tasks such as 3d rendering, machine learning, simulation, photogrammetry processing etc.
Sad but when I said very much the same thing some posters seemed to think it was a personal attack. It is not a very powerful machine and there are cheaper alternatives.

From my perspective the Mac Pro being so upgradeable is how it should be anyway. But one way to increase its power is by changing the problem and reducing its power overheads from unnecessary glitzy operating system features.

With a system designed as a workhorse you really don't need the same level of glitz as on an iPhone, so the constant updates to get everything the same with regards to a dedicated workhorse doesn't really make sense for that machine.

One way around this particular point is for Apple to have a different set up procedure for the Mac Pro that strips out some of the unnecessary overhead in play iMacs and other more consumer targeted products where I know user intervention can reduce overhead but where perhaps setups should be more in keeping with the intended use. Some users buy Macs as fashion items and good luck to them. Some buy them for business, but still need that glitz and panache that Apple definitely has. Others though may have systems purely as workhorses. It doesn't preclude iPhones, iPads, iMacs not producing some excellent work from very creative and innovative use, but in other areas workhorse requirements take over.

All in all though the reason Apple became the apple of my eye (sorry for the pun) was its innovative GUI borne out of Xerox originally, and the stability of its systems, which in my opinion are still far more stable than the Wintel platform.

My old Mac Pro's were bought for one reason...to work, and I still have a Mac on OS9!

The point made about crashes though, is why Apple in my opinion is still the best platform, and perhaps being an oldy the overhead is no longer as important as it once was, with Moores Law still at work.
 
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If I had $5,999 to spend on a new Mac, I'd put it in the bank and wait for the next redesigned 27" iMac.

Wait. I have been doing that since 2014.
 
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Yet you compared the MacPro to a gaming machine: "You forgot to mention that a cheap midrange gaming PC with a Threadripper is much, MUCH faster than this $6,000 thing."

I did, and it’s still true. For the tasks I am doing, which are not gaming but CUDA-raytracing and *making* games, the gaming PC will be faster, even though it’s designed for playing games.
 
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