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Thats like $600 and change today. Wow!
Just in line with mid tier daps today… not far fetched as it was simple and performant. I’d buy one with today’s ssd if they kept everything else the same.

600 for a good sound is not that bad, my Ibasso was around 400, it is considered mid tier it is amazing, i only use the audio part, it has internet and browser and some other app i can install trough Android, the sound is amazing, i removed everything that is not music related as for me it is a music player.

I bought it for the sound signature, if it was simplier with less feature I’d still have bought this cause there is no iPod, give me an iPod with same or better sound quality and it is a day 1 purchase.
 
Still going strong on original HDD and battery...granted only last about an hr now without charge

Should swap the battery and HDD soon

tempImageegmpBU.png
 
Just in line with mid tier daps today… not far fetched as it was simple and performant. I’d buy one with today’s ssd if they kept everything else the same.
On that note it's interesting to me that the iPod's category of product does still exist, it's just a niche for audiophiles.

And while the modern devices available have audiophile price tags attached, you can absolutely spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars today on a portable music player that does basically nothing else. $600, as you say, is just midrange.

I was surprised to learn today that Sony still makes Walkmans, which are now audiophile-type portable music players. The cheapest one lists for $400, and the most expensive is $3700--how times change.
 
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On that note it's interesting to me that the iPod's category of product does still exist, it's just a niche for audiophiles.

And while the modern devices available have audiophile price tags attached, you can absolutely spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars today on a portable music player that does basically nothing else. $600, as you say, is just midrange.

I was surprised to learn today that Sony still makes Walkmans, which are now audiophile-type portable music players. The cheapest one lists for $400, and the most expensive is $3700--how times change.

Kind of amazing Apple doesn’t wanna play in this space.
 
For perspective, the only real competitor the iPod had as far as storage in an MP3 player when it was released was the Creative Nomad Jukebox, which was the size of an ugly Diskman and extremely thick. The iPod was unthinkably small for when it was released. View attachment 2578166
The Creative Nomad later went on to be the design inspiration for label printers.
1763074259157.png
 
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Kind of amazing Apple doesn’t wanna play in this space.
It’s be cool, but it’s not at all surprising Apple isn’t interested; Apple has an incredibly small product portfolio for a company of its size any type and this sort of very small niche just isn’t what they do.

Apple does sell some very niche accessories, but among tech products they just don’t go there. The closest you could argue they make is the Vision Pro or Mac Pro, but even those probably sell at least an order of magnitude more than a $3000 Walkman, and they both fit into Apple’s strategy as developer/pro tools tools, not niche consumer devices—one as a necessary ultra-high-end model, and the other as a prototype of what they hope to be a future platform.

The closest to an audiophile iPod that Apple makes is the AirPods Max, and even that is a far more mass-market product.
 
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On that note it's interesting to me that the iPod's category of product does still exist, it's just a niche for audiophiles.

And while the modern devices available have audiophile price tags attached, you can absolutely spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars today on a portable music player that does basically nothing else. $600, as you say, is just midrange.

I was surprised to learn today that Sony still makes Walkmans, which are now audiophile-type portable music players. The cheapest one lists for $400, and the most expensive is $3700--how times change.
I won’t go in the audiophile territory as it is …. Bumpy,but audio player have a spot.

As i mentioned earlier there are times where i need Storage (without compromising my cellphone storage) i need. Descend battery, again without using the cell one, better audio quality (undeniable that a decent dac and a good amplifier makes better sound) and above all i need no distraction.

Dap offer just that, with varying level of audio quality, some I perceive, some i don’t and some are debatable ….impossible to hear.

Never really did an a and b blind test, for some it might be placebo effect, for me…i know what I hear, DX180 for me sound great, anything above it i start to struggle hearing a big difference worth the extra $$ but some might feel a valuable gain from more expensive gears.

But as for the iPod, what i like of current dap, is their ability to be just that, a Digital audio player.
I started reusing a dap with the original FIIO X3, wich i still use to this day, it is a no android no app installlable pure music player with amazing quality for the price it had and still rocking to this day, i wanted more and the DX180 fits the bill.

It is not for everyone, i guess targeting the audiophiles marked would make it an expensive niche wich is already fairly covered (Astell & Kern), but it’s a demanding niche, where they care little less about the branding and more about the quality of sound (if you are neutral some people will be mad, if it is too bright some other will, make it warm and you have another part offended….)

There are moments when i want to listen to music and not just hear music.
 
Instead of the Apple sock, I wish they had released an OG-style iPod—slimmed down, with a super battery, a 1 TB or 2 TB option, the classic click wheel, and a nice screen.
So do I, although I wouldn't buy either. But that's an Apples to Honda Civics comparison, which comes back to the point I was making about Apple's tech product portfolio being extremely small, and with almost not exceptions products that sell a lot of units in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms to a ridiculously popular product like the iPhone.

How much design time went into the Sock vs even a light refresh of an iPod that wouldn't suck? (Answer: Likely none, since Apple didn't even design the Pocket thing, Issey Miyaki did, although if they had it would still be a much simpler job.)

How much software development would be required to support the sock vs. a new iPod? Again, none, vs. not-none, since even if they just used the same old OS they'd still need to review it, make it work with whatever hardware changes needed to be made, and make sure it could sync with whatever it is supposed to sync with.

Likewise for the amount of manufacturing--I don't know how the sock was made, but it obviously wasn't that hard, I'm not even sure Apple even had anything to do with the manufacturing, and it certainly didn't require spinning up and maintaining a factory line to assemble the thing, and go through various consumer electronics approvals, and make sure the battery doesn't explode when you leave it in the car, and so on.

All of which is why, I assume, Apple will do oddball one-off non-tech products like the Pocket thing--especially when they're "collaborations" with some other company that probably require nothing but a branding agreement--but keeps their tech portfolio extremely small and focused on things they sell a lot of.

I won’t go in the audiophile territory as it is …. Bumpy,but audio player have a spot.

[...]

It is not for everyone, i guess targeting the audiophiles marked would make it an expensive niche wich is already fairly covered (Astell & Kern), but it’s a demanding niche, where they care little less about the branding and more about the quality of sound (if you are neutral some people will be mad, if it is too bright some other will, make it warm and you have another part offended….)
There's no formal definition, but I'm pretty confident in saying from the "normal consumer" perspective that a $600 DAP is an "audiophile" product. No, it's not a $3000 Walkman DAP, or a $50,000 speaker, or a $1,000 quantum-dust-infused power cord, but it's certainly beyond what the vast majority of consumers consider sufficient audio quality, and is well into the rage of, to use your words, people who are dedicated to "listening to music instead of just hearing it".

My point being the entire DAP space, at this point, is just varying levels of audiophile.

And why Apple isn't interested--it's a demanding niche, and a small one, which just isn't what Apple usually goes for. The only statistic I could find pinned the current global DAP market at around $1.2B, which (if it's even remotely accurate) means that if Apple took that entire market segment (which obviously isn't realistic), it would add up to less than 7% of the revenue of just various AirPods, and back-of-envelope not even a third of what Apple makes on the AirPods Max, which is by far the closest product they make in terms of target market.

It's not that nobody wants high-end audio players, or that Apple couldn't make one, but small-volume, high-engineering-cost, demanding niche markets just is not Apple's thing. It's better served by dedicated small companies, which it is.
 
So do I, although I wouldn't buy either. But that's an Apples to Honda Civics comparison, which comes back to the point I was making about Apple's tech product portfolio being extremely small, and with almost not exceptions products that sell a lot of units in absolute terms, even if not in relative terms to a ridiculously popular product like the iPhone.

How much design time went into the Sock vs even a light refresh of an iPod that wouldn't suck? (Answer: Likely none, since Apple didn't even design the Pocket thing, Issey Miyaki did, although if they had it would still be a much simpler job.)

How much software development would be required to support the sock vs. a new iPod? Again, none, vs. not-none, since even if they just used the same old OS they'd still need to review it, make it work with whatever hardware changes needed to be made, and make sure it could sync with whatever it is supposed to sync with.

Likewise for the amount of manufacturing--I don't know how the sock was made, but it obviously wasn't that hard, I'm not even sure Apple even had anything to do with the manufacturing, and it certainly didn't require spinning up and maintaining a factory line to assemble the thing, and go through various consumer electronics approvals, and make sure the battery doesn't explode when you leave it in the car, and so on.

All of which is why, I assume, Apple will do oddball one-off non-tech products like the Pocket thing--especially when they're "collaborations" with some other company that probably require nothing but a branding agreement--but keeps their tech portfolio extremely small and focused on things they sell a lot of.


There's no formal definition, but I'm pretty confident in saying from the "normal consumer" perspective that a $600 DAP is an "audiophile" product. No, it's not a $3000 Walkman DAP, or a $50,000 speaker, or a $1,000 quantum-dust-infused power cord, but it's certainly beyond what the vast majority of consumers consider sufficient audio quality, and is well into the rage of, to use your words, people who are dedicated to "listening to music instead of just hearing it".

My point being the entire DAP space, at this point, is just varying levels of audiophile.

And why Apple isn't interested--it's a demanding niche, and a small one, which just isn't what Apple usually goes for. The only statistic I could find pinned the current global DAP market at around $1.2B, which (if it's even remotely accurate) means that if Apple took that entire market segment (which obviously isn't realistic), it would add up to less than 7% of the revenue of just various AirPods, and back-of-envelope not even a third of what Apple makes on the AirPods Max, which is by far the closest product they make in terms of target market.

It's not that nobody wants high-end audio players, or that Apple couldn't make one, but small-volume, high-engineering-cost, demanding niche markets just is not Apple's thing. It's better served by dedicated small companies, which it is.
Partially true, apple vision is a niche, a demanding one, AirPods Max pretty much as well.

I get your point and I agree that while Apple could they never will, but at the right price they could sell a lot of them and make a good roi….will they no, should they? Maybe, it would help withApple. Uscì subscription as well.
While 600 for a player might sound steep ( i know it’s a lot of money ) i would say is at the low end of audiophile market, i couldnt probably tell the difference from mine to a 3x more expensive one, so my limit was more what I hear and like vs being audiohile or price…..wich i guess should be how anyone pick a player, hearing different one and pick the one that sound the best to them.
 
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