Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Hard drive vibratey/not spinning down in 2010 13" MBP? (Was: constantly running fan?)
- Thread starter Miss Terri
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Okay, that's what mine is doing. It does not sound "clicky" or chattery like what I think of as a dying hard drive (I do have a backup that is about four hours old though
). It simply runs/spins/vibrates 24/7 when I am using the computer. This seems odd to me.
Maybe I will "have" to.
Few issues with that for me now
1) They seem like one of those things one should be waiting slightly on (was reading about sleep issues, new ones about to come out that are a better type? etc.).
2) I don't think this one would bother me if it would EVER spin down. That still seems wrong to me
and I would like to get to the bottom of it vs. just getting an SSD.3) $$ are a bit tight right now (laid off)
I do see an SSD in my future, but for now I would like to know why this hard drive is always running exactly the same (when my past ones would always spin down or rest with same usage pattern).
Easy way to determine if this is HDD vs Fan.
Download SMCFanControl and run the following command via an Apple Script:
do shell script "/Applications/smcFanControl.app/Contents/Resources/smc -k F0Mx -w 12c0"
This will force your fan to run @ 1200 RPM. If you notice an immediate change in the vibration, it's a fan issue. (Reboot to clear this)
To stress the HDD, I would download and run AJA System Test. Run it on a 2GB test. Keep your palms on the Mac and see if you can tell if the vibration characteristics change.
I'd lean towards HDD. If it were a fan bearing, those issues tend to be accompanied by a noise (not all the time, but a good portion of the time.)
Download SMCFanControl and run the following command via an Apple Script:
do shell script "/Applications/smcFanControl.app/Contents/Resources/smc -k F0Mx -w 12c0"
This will force your fan to run @ 1200 RPM. If you notice an immediate change in the vibration, it's a fan issue. (Reboot to clear this)
To stress the HDD, I would download and run AJA System Test. Run it on a 2GB test. Keep your palms on the Mac and see if you can tell if the vibration characteristics change.
I'd lean towards HDD. If it were a fan bearing, those issues tend to be accompanied by a noise (not all the time, but a good portion of the time.)
Maybe I will "have" to.
Few issues with that for me now
1) They seem like one of those things one should be waiting slightly on (was reading about sleep issues, new ones about to come out that are a better type? etc.).
2) I don't think this one would bother me if it would EVER spin down. That still seems wrong to me
3) $$ are a bit tight right now (laid off)
I do see an SSD in my future, but for now I would like to know why this hard drive is always running exactly the same (when my past ones would always spin down or rest with same usage pattern).
3 is a bummer and I'm sorry to hear that.
1 is blown out of proportion by some forum folks. I have had (2) SSD's with zero "issues" with Sleep, Wear down, etc... Both OCZ, one a Summit, one a Vertex 2 (and I'll likely get a 3 when they come out for a reasonable price). I would use smart sleep, remove the 4/8gb sleep file, and have it only sleep and not hibernate. Problems solved.
2 can be a hard drive about to go bad, or it could be something you've downloaded is doing some writing to the drive. Or it could be excessive paging (which I doubt). Open Activity Monitor and check the Disk tab. See what, if anything, is writing to the disk. If it isn't stuck (which would be odd) some process is likely using it. Also open the memory tab and check page outs. This also indicates items being paged out from RAM into the HDD. Excessive amounts here could indicate another issue. (A few MB is nothing out of the norm - if you have several hundred I would worry you don't have enough RAM)
Internal Hard Drive Never "Spins Down".
Another thread posted on these forums made me examine my own system. I have noticed that I have never seen my internal Macintosh HD "spin down" or "sleep whenever possible" before. I'm wondering what could cause this and if it is cause for concern?
Thanks
Another thread posted on these forums made me examine my own system. I have noticed that I have never seen my internal Macintosh HD "spin down" or "sleep whenever possible" before. I'm wondering what could cause this and if it is cause for concern?
Thanks
From iStat:
I have minimal page outs: 109,937 page ins; 36 page outs.
CPU is running at ~90% idle.
Fan around 1990 rpm.
Temps are CPU 54ºC; heatsink 48ºC
This seems pretty "relaxed," no?
Looking at Activity monitor (I'm not sure what these stats mean):
I have 4GB RAM, btw
Can you see any reason why it would never spin down? I'm now 99.99% sure it IS the hard drive not the fan (thanks to the folks here). And it does not sound like a bearing, or clicky bad drive. But why does it run all the time? That is inconsistent with my same usage on two previous Mac laptops.
I have minimal page outs: 109,937 page ins; 36 page outs.
CPU is running at ~90% idle.
Fan around 1990 rpm.
Temps are CPU 54ºC; heatsink 48ºC
This seems pretty "relaxed," no?
Looking at Activity monitor (I'm not sure what these stats mean):
I have 4GB RAM, btw
Can you see any reason why it would never spin down? I'm now 99.99% sure it IS the hard drive not the fan (thanks to the folks here). And it does not sound like a bearing, or clicky bad drive. But why does it run all the time? That is inconsistent with my same usage on two previous Mac laptops.
So there is another thread with the same issue...so you posted a separate thread on this?
I imagine it has something to do with having your home directory and all apps / content on one drive. Even light browsing and OS operations interact with the HDD at some level. If you completely do not use it for an extended period, I would imagine it might power down if the "Put HDD to sleep..." option is checked in Power Management.
A quick Google search out on the 'net indicates others have experienced similar issues with various WD drives in MBP's. Not sure it's an "issue" or by design. I'm trying to find more info on it.
It may be that it is configured to not sleep until zero activity occurs, which even light browsing will cause some HDD interaction. After all, the OS and your home directory is still on the primary disk.
Okay, more info:
I had the back of the computer off the other day; just happened to notice that the drive was either a Toshiba or a Hitachi. I can't remember which one for sure, but I think Toshiba.
I do have "energy" saver set to "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" on BOTH ac adapter and battery. Yet it never goes to sleep, EVER.
Same usage on my old G3 iBook (last night in fact) = hard drive only spins up occasionally.
Same usage on my 2008 MB with same CPU = hard drive only spun up occasionally (but whole computer RIP).
Does this change any of your thoughts?
I had the back of the computer off the other day; just happened to notice that the drive was either a Toshiba or a Hitachi. I can't remember which one for sure, but I think Toshiba.
I do have "energy" saver set to "Put hard disks to sleep when possible" on BOTH ac adapter and battery. Yet it never goes to sleep, EVER.
Same usage on my old G3 iBook (last night in fact) = hard drive only spins up occasionally.
Same usage on my 2008 MB with same CPU = hard drive only spun up occasionally (but whole computer RIP).
Does this change any of your thoughts?
My 2008 pre-unibody MBP is actually the one that the HDD never seems to go to sleep on. It's my work machine though, so I've always chalked it up to some big brother type software or something running in the background that was likely accessing the HDD.
Could always try a SMC reset, but I'm not sure that would fix this.
Could always try a SMC reset, but I'm not sure that would fix this.
I'm the OP of the other thread. Maybe you could post there?
I'm noticing the same thing on my 2010 MBP 13"
People are saying it could be usage but I wonder about that because my 2008 MB also had the Core 2 Duo and a 5400 rpm drive, and was the exact same in terms of what I had loaded onto it (just migrated in fact) and my typical usage. That hard drive was usually "spun down" and only sometimes "spun up."
This one is 100% "spun up" even though I have it set to "sleep hard disk whenever possible" on both AC and battery.
I have not got to the bottom of it yet (feel free to read the thread).
I'm noticing the same thing on my 2010 MBP 13"
People are saying it could be usage but I wonder about that because my 2008 MB also had the Core 2 Duo and a 5400 rpm drive, and was the exact same in terms of what I had loaded onto it (just migrated in fact) and my typical usage. That hard drive was usually "spun down" and only sometimes "spun up."
This one is 100% "spun up" even though I have it set to "sleep hard disk whenever possible" on both AC and battery.
I have not got to the bottom of it yet (feel free to read the thread).
I don't think you can spin down a hard drive while the system itself is running. What I think it means by that is, put hard drive to sleep along with the computer, and when the computer is idle for an excessive amout of time (3-4 hours).
As for the vibrating hard drive, of course a hard drive vibrates. It uses a super high-speed motor to spin a metal plate at extreme speeds. However, contrary to popular belief, a faster hard drive can reduce vibration, just like how a faster bike can reduce wobbling.
If the hard drive makes any clicking, whining, scratching, or groaning noise, BACK UP AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. This is a good indication that the hard drive is failing, even if it's new (I had a hard drive fail in less than 3 months of use).
If you want a complete vibration-free computer, you should have opted for the Air and its specialized fans. The MacBook Pro will always have some vibration, due to the CPU fans and hard drive.
Specialized fans in Air? I just thought they were smaller due to the profile. In fact, if you ramp up the Air's CPU, they tend to be louder than the MBP due to the smaller size. (At least that was some of the initial complaints in the Air forum)
Are you sure about that? I don't see why *any* setting would be needed to sleep the hard drive when the whole computer is sleeping
I mean, doesn't that just happen by sleeping the computer (or shortly thereafter).I think "Put the hard disk to sleep when possible" means "Spin down the hard disk when possible" (in fact, did they used to call it that?).
On my very similar 2008 MB it was spun down "sleeping hard disk" most of the time, WHEN the computer was running. So was my iBook. So is my friends unibody MB which is virtually identical to my computer but with 2GB RAM not 4GB RAM. So I don't know that this is unrealistic. I am trying to find out.
I can't use the Air as the screen resolution is too high for me, or I would consider it.
Meanwhile, I would like to get this figured out, if possible.
As I mentioned above, partway through the thread, the hard drive is not clicking, or making any "I'm about to fail" noises. In fact I would not consider it unusually loud at all. (One reason I first thought it might be the fan - just a constant whirring noise). I have now determined, thanks to help here, that is IS the hard drive; BUT what is unusual is that it runs 100% of the time the computer is on.
Last edited:
OP ~
You can try:
sudo pmset -a disksleep 1
This should force the HDD to sleep after 60 seconds of inactivity. YMMV
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10346924-263.html
You can try:
sudo pmset -a disksleep 1
This should force the HDD to sleep after 60 seconds of inactivity. YMMV
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13727_7-10346924-263.html
Thank you, I just read through that article and that may be useful.
I see they say that the tick-box in system prefs that I have selected means this:
When this setting is enabled, the system changes the power management system to turn off the disks after 10 minutes of use.
Does this mean after ten minutes of NO use? I would still like to make sure it's working properly before I "tweak" since it is an almost brand new computer. So I could test this factory setting by just letting my computer sit "on" for ten minutes without doing anything and it should spin down, right?
LIke I say though, the one weird thing is that with my same behavior, same system, same processor..... my old hard drives were almost always "spun down" and it was the exception when they came to life (so no vibrating palm rests). This one has never ever spun down the whole time I have been using the computer. Not one spin down even though I have it set to spin down on both AC and battery power.
So.. trying to figure out if anythign is wrong here (Four hour drive to check at Genius bar, so would like to avoid if possible; plus I have had some less-genius experiences there. So I do take my computers in, but only once I am sure I need to.
I do appreciate that link though; nice to know how to tweak it myself!
MIss Terri
2010 MBP 13" 2.4Ghz
I see they say that the tick-box in system prefs that I have selected means this:
When this setting is enabled, the system changes the power management system to turn off the disks after 10 minutes of use.
Does this mean after ten minutes of NO use? I would still like to make sure it's working properly before I "tweak" since it is an almost brand new computer. So I could test this factory setting by just letting my computer sit "on" for ten minutes without doing anything and it should spin down, right?
LIke I say though, the one weird thing is that with my same behavior, same system, same processor..... my old hard drives were almost always "spun down" and it was the exception when they came to life (so no vibrating palm rests). This one has never ever spun down the whole time I have been using the computer. Not one spin down even though I have it set to spin down on both AC and battery power.
So.. trying to figure out if anythign is wrong here (Four hour drive to check at Genius bar, so would like to avoid if possible; plus I have had some less-genius experiences there. So I do take my computers in, but only once I am sure I need to.
I do appreciate that link though; nice to know how to tweak it myself!
MIss Terri
2010 MBP 13" 2.4Ghz
Another thought could be the operating system you're running perhaps won't allow this? (can't say for sure, don't have Snow Leopard on this) - I CAN say, that spinning down of drives can be a REAL annoyance. The system will hang for a few seconds while the drive spins up - and this tends to be more annoying than the noise itself.
With that setting enabled, if you do not touch the mouse, or anything (no video playback, ect) - then yes, it should spin down after 10 minutes of inactivity.
At the very least, when the computer goes to "sleep / standby" it most definitely should spin down then.
With that setting enabled, if you do not touch the mouse, or anything (no video playback, ect) - then yes, it should spin down after 10 minutes of inactivity.
At the very least, when the computer goes to "sleep / standby" it most definitely should spin down then.
It should be NO activity at all. So if something is getting paged out to the drive, I would imagine the write could constitute resetting the timer. Not 100% sure though.
You can do the command in Terminal above to see if the 1 minute timer actually allows the HDD to go to sleep. I'd shut down any apps, etc... run that command, and wait 60 seconds to see if it does spin down. If it doesn't, you can always set it back, just change the value 1 back to 10, and it will be back to default (what it gets set to when that check box is checked)
I don't believe anything is "broken" - or at least to the extent the Genius bar would be able to do anything for you. It's either a 1) setting out of whack or 2) working as designed and something is tripping the "10 minute timer".
Im having the same issues with my 2011 13" I7. This one is a replacement because the 2010 13" I bought had a defective SuperDrive and was doa. However the 2010 model definitely didn't make this noise. I got to compare it because it was an advance replacement so the 2010 was still here.
Seeing as it did happen with your baseline 13" 2010 and with my 2011 13" I'm thinking our HDD's are defective..or am I wrong?
Seeing as it did happen with your baseline 13" 2010 and with my 2011 13" I'm thinking our HDD's are defective..or am I wrong?
shoegal, I wish I knew.
I posted a new thread here today, because I felt this one had wandered around pretty far and I had new, more specific question/info, but I have still not found an answer.
Here is what I have done:
1) Of course I already have "Sleep (spin down) disk when possible" checked in preferences. The default time for that is 10 minutes. Not that mine even spins down in ten hours, mind you.
2) I used the Terminal command to change the 10 minutes to 2 minutes, for an experiment.
3) I closed every program on the computer (except Finder, which I can't close of course) and waited 5 minutes, listening and not touching the computer.
4) The hard drive never spun down at ALL.
This just does not seem right to me (and does not match my other similar computers or my friends 2010 MB which is virtually identical for all intents and purposes).
But.... I don't know what else to try or check. It's 4 hours' drive for me to go to the Apple store (plus I've had some negative experiences there), so I would like to try anything I can try myself first.
If I find anything out, and I don't think you've seen it here, I'll PM you. Maybe you could do the same for me?
It's really making using the computer a less-pleasant experience than what I am used to, and I'm about to go back to my iBook (which, if you knew how tired that thing was, would explain how distressing this is!)
Miss Terri
2010 MBP 13" (build month: December 2010) (250gb Toshiba factory HDD)
I posted a new thread here today, because I felt this one had wandered around pretty far and I had new, more specific question/info, but I have still not found an answer.
Here is what I have done:
1) Of course I already have "Sleep (spin down) disk when possible" checked in preferences. The default time for that is 10 minutes. Not that mine even spins down in ten hours, mind you.
2) I used the Terminal command to change the 10 minutes to 2 minutes, for an experiment.
3) I closed every program on the computer (except Finder, which I can't close of course) and waited 5 minutes, listening and not touching the computer.
4) The hard drive never spun down at ALL.
This just does not seem right to me (and does not match my other similar computers or my friends 2010 MB which is virtually identical for all intents and purposes).
But.... I don't know what else to try or check. It's 4 hours' drive for me to go to the Apple store (plus I've had some negative experiences there), so I would like to try anything I can try myself first.
If I find anything out, and I don't think you've seen it here, I'll PM you. Maybe you could do the same for me?
It's really making using the computer a less-pleasant experience than what I am used to, and I'm about to go back to my iBook (which, if you knew how tired that thing was, would explain how distressing this is!)
Miss Terri
2010 MBP 13" (build month: December 2010) (250gb Toshiba factory HDD)
I know what you mean. Right now i'm using a friends' laptop because using the noisy macbook just gets me on edge. I'm very upset with Apple too. My 2010 model had a defective superdrive and airport, the advance replacement had this noise issue. The advance replacement was declared DOA because the service provider said the HDD shoud NOT be making that noise. New replacemnt: same noise and cosmetic defect(unpolished part). Well my options now: take back the advance replacement with the noisy HDD or keep the 2010 defective model(which the service provider ALSO damaged and chipped when trying to repair the superdrive).
So yeah, not happy with Apple at the moment....
I'm going to take my advance replacement with the noisy HDD to a DIFFERENT service provider and ask them for their opinion. will report back!