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Thanks for the reply, mscriv.

Not looking to make trouble here. I understand your reasons and they make sense. I'm curious as to why you allowed the Tom Brady trade in the other league. Seems the circumstances were similar.

But yes, I agree with rdowns, the situation seems similar enough to warrant the question. Why did you allow my trade to go through? TCD is and has been out of it.

You all bring up a good point and in truth I hadn't considered the similarity of the two trades. In my mind the Brady trade was more of a novelty in that QOS has been open and obvious about her Boston homerism and she did give up a lot to make the deal happen. However the primary difference in my mind, and the reason I didn't consider vetoing the deal, is that one trade was clearly processed prior to the end of the season and thus both teams could benefit and use their acquired players before the post season. In the other trade the parties agreed to a trade that they knew would not process until the end of the season. In a redraft league with no carry over to the next year the post season only counts for those who make the playoffs. Thus, there is no legitimate way for a team not making the playoffs to improve their chances through a trade that takes effect after the season is completed. I understand you can say "hey, I want to win those loser's bracket games" but in terms of the competitive balance of the league those games don't count. In fact, there is no way to "play spoiler" in the post season loser's bracket.

Based on some of the comments that have been made, I want to be clear that I didn't veto the trade based on the perceived value of the players involved. The veto was solely based on the fact that it was not possible for the teams involved to both legitimately benefit from the trade because one of the teams was out of the playoffs and the trade wouldn't process until the season was over.

As to the question of voting on the trade. In the leagues I manage team owners do not vote on trades. The league manager alone has veto power. The rules that were quoted were for ESPN standard leagues not League Manager leagues.

Now, I would like to think that those here at MR who know me, especially those who have played in our leagues for years, can count on the fact that I am a person of integrity. I'm willing to continue discussion on the subject and open to the possibility that a compromise or alternative decision could be made. I'm not saying I will reverse the decision as I still stand by it, but I'm open to more feedback and will continue to mull it over. That being said, at the moment, grapes is unwilling to discuss the matter, and not many others from the actual Hardware league have weighed in on things. Dandaman expressed understanding of the veto and recognized that his games going forward don't count, but I would like to hear more from him on the matter if he has anything additional to add.
 
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Just to toss a couple pennies...

I just wanted to say that I really enjoy playing Fantasy Football with you guys and have done decent (besides this year) for a guy that rally doesn't follow Football that closely. I am nowhere near as knowledgable about Fooball as almost all of you and honestly, I really only watch the Vikes. That doesn't mean I don't care or I don't want to win games. I just wanted to say that even though I was out of contention, I do not give players for free. I know the Brady trade looks bad but the only reason I accepted the third trade proposal was because I had another QB (Big Ben). Even I know that Big Ben doesn't have the clout that Brady has but comparing the numbers wasn't all that lopsided this season. I hadn't played Brady since week 7 and was looking to improve my WR slot.

In fact, if you look at my last game, I could have beaten the Queen if I wasn't caught sleeping on the Thanksgiving games (1 pt loss). I do play "for fun" and I'm well aware that I lack the knowledge/competitiveness required to WIN IT ALL but I try and I am in no way trying to help somebody else win.

As for the trade drama: I see both sides of the story but honestly I don't care/know enough to pick sides. It's definitely a borderline case but was it done for personal reasons? I'm not so sure.

I will say that I find it highly ironic that a guy classified as a "moderator" on this site refuses to discuss the matter and is willing to trash the league because of it.

I consider you both friends, here and outside of MR, and I sincerely hope it can all be worked out.

Thanks....
-TCD
 
Sorry for the late response.

I didn't feel that the trade offered to me was too one-sided. Welker had a tremendous start to the season but he's been tapering off in the second half of the season (I'm a broncos fan so I've noticed this probably a bit more than others). Cooper and the Eagles have been on an upswing so it looked like a good trade to me. Not a solid trade, but potential for some benefit for my team. In fact, last week, Cooper scored more than Welker.

Getting Ray Rice seemed nice since my RBs are so terrible. As horrible as Rice has been this season, I still would have tried starting him on my team.

I understood mscriv's position in terms of a playoff team benefiting from the trade while my last place team has nothing to gain or lose. I'm assuming if this trade were offered earlier in the season, he wouldn't have vetoed it? I'm not a huge fan of the trade veto rule set up in this league, but kind of understand why he has it the way it is.
 
I understood mscriv's position in terms of a playoff team benefiting from the trade while my last place team has nothing to gain or lose. I'm assuming if this trade were offered earlier in the season, he wouldn't have vetoed it?

Absolutely correct, if the trade would have been made earlier I would not have vetoed it.
 
Well, in order to be fair to the league as a whole, there needs to be some sort of resolution to this issue and a decision made regarding how to move forward. Seeing as how the first game of the week is tomorrow night we are on a deadline.

So, as I see it there are a few options available.

1. The veto stands. While disagreeing with the decision being made grapes911 honors his commitment to the league and actively finishes the post season. He's got a good chance of winning the whole thing. :D If he feels my integiry as a commissioner is questionable then he is free to not play next year though I would be sad to see him go.

2. The veto decision is reversed. As commissioner I can adjust team rosters and make it as if the trade was never vetoed. At this point I'm not comfortable with this option because I do stand by my decision. In truth, the only reason I am entertaining this possibility is due to grapes911's current stated course of action. He is willing to selfishly "blow up" the entire league in order to make his point. I can totally understand frustration, but I don't think that justifies ruining the experience for everyone else involved, especially considering the controversial nature of the issue in question. I mean no disrespect with these comments. Grapes911 is aware of what he is doing and himself described it as "taking his ball and going home".

3. Another player in the league is chosen amongst those who did not make the playoffs to finish the season with grapes911's team. TCD communicated,

FYI: Grapes has stated that he would allow somebody to become co-owner of his team if somebody wants to take it over.

In my opinion this option is not very desirable. I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I wouldn't want to "make the playoffs" with someone else's team, let alone win the league. The experience and potential victory would feel hollow. I also don't know that this would be fair to the other players in the league.

4. If grapes911 insist on removing himself from the league due to his disagreement with the decision then his team can be removed from the playoffs and all seeds adjusted accordingly. This would allow team owners to play their own teams and the league would finish with no disruption, albeit, modified. The new playoff seedings would be as follows:
#1 Team mscriv
#2 Team SoCal Californians
#3 Team Dontazemebro
#4 Team Wonton Hand Cannons
#5 Team Portlandia
#6 Team HarryPot

Like the current format the top two seed would have a bye and seeds four thru six would square off this weekend with 3 vs 6 and 4 vs 5.

I don't really see any other viable options to resolve our present circumstance. Among the four options my order of preference would be option #1, followed by option #4, and last either of options #2 or #3 which in my mind are both undesirable.

Thoughts?, Feedback? Grapes911, are you willing to share your thoughts? It's unfortunate we find ourselves in this predicament. My only goal at this point is finding a way to maintain the integrity of the league so the season is not ruined for everyone involved.
 
I like choice #4. If grape truly does want to remove himself from contention, then honor his wish. Even if someone does take over grape's team, it would ruin the hard work and dedication of either your original team or grape's.

But, I prefer choice #1. I lost to him the first week because I didn't play someone that would have given grape a loss. I would love for a chance to potentially matchup with him for the win!
 
What about the players from Grapes team ? What happens to them ?

Nothing would happen to the players from grapes team if he chooses to withdraw from the league (no longer actively manage or set a starting line up). I would simply remove his team from the playoffs. The team would remain intact and would play in the consolation bracket with whatever starters he last put in when he was actively managing his team. This would still be an undesirable option as those whom he plays over the next three weeks would know that he is no longer participating. :(
 
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The fact that this community is tight knit to the point where you guys are doing a league is awesome. Oh, and count me in for next year. Wishful thinking, but maybe I can get some of the team to play too. :)
 
Allright everyone, the clock is ticking. So, I will have to make a decision and adjust things prior to tonights kick off.

Grapes911, I'm asking that you please respond regarding your decision about continued participation in the league. I'll also PM you so that this is not the only place where the request is made. I know you said you were out in a previous post, but I believe that post was likely made in the "heat of the moment" with emotions running high. So, I'd like to get some confirmation now that the "dust has settled" a bit. Thanks. :)
 
At this point you can consider me out of the league. I’m no longer going to be posting or reading this thread and I’m no longer going to be setting a lineup. Don’t bother PMing me about it either as I’ll just delete the message without reading it.

You may call me a cry baby and think I’m “taking my ball and going home” but this is more about me removing myself from a situation before I say something unbecoming of a member of this forum. It’s taking every ounce of my restraint to keep this a PC as possible and not use the words I truly want to use. Unless I remove myself from this situation now, I’m sure I’ll say something I regret.

Well, grapes911 does not appear to be open to any other course of action other than to withdraw from the league. He has not responded to any of the discussion in this thread and has not responded to my attempts to reach out to him via PM and email. If you look at his team in the league you will see that he has removed all of his starters from play by benching them, effectively refusing to compete in any of his match-ups from this point forward. His team will record a score of zero due to there not being an eligible starting line up.

I guess the best way to describe the situation is that he has a definite case of "sour grapes". :D ;)

Ooh... too soon? Sorry, I couldn't resist and in truth it's one of those cases where we all need a laugh to keep us from crying.

Regrettably the only course of action I am left with is to remove his team from the playoffs and adjust the seeds accordingly so that active team owners can enjoy the remainder of the season and fight it out in the playoffs. This is not what I wanted to do, but his refusal to respond and unwillingness to play has forced my hand.

The ESPN system will continue to show your team ranked according to how the season ended, but I have reset the playoff match ups according to the following seeding:

Seed #1 Team mscriv
Seed #2 Team SoCal Californians
Seed #3 Team Dontazemebro
Seed #4 Team Wonton Hand Cannons
Seed #5 Team Portlandia
Seed #6 Team HarryPot
Seed #7 Team Berlin Pretzels
Seed #8 Team Dez Dispensers
Seed #9 Team Whittier Poets
Seed #10 Team grapes 911

The #1 and #2 seeds have a first round bye. The #3 seed will play the #6 seed and the winner will advance to play the #2 seed. The #4 seed will play the #5 seed and the winner will advance to play the #1 seed.

As for the consolation bracket, I sincerely apologize to Dandaman because you will be matched up with grapes this week and thus you will not have an active opponent. This trend will continue in weeks 15 and 16 as whoever is matched up against grapes will essentially be guaranteed a win due his unwillingness to participate. Thus, I extend the apology to all of the players who are in the consolation bracket as all of you will be affected by this.

I am sincerely discouraged by the way this league is going to finish and I greatly apologize to all of the team owners. The one hard and fast rule I have tried to maintain in our MR Fantasy Football leagues is to only allow active team owners to participate. In the past there have been some disputes about various things like trades, tie-breaker rules, etc, but this is the first time we have had a league participant openly quit the league in mid season, thereby placing his personal feelings above those of everyone else. In every other situation we have been able to put the disagreements aside or move past them for the best of all involved and finish the league successfully.

Please know that this experience will definitely have an impact on how we do things in the future. I will make every effort to be more specific about rules as much as I can so that we can hope to avoid these kinds of situations as much as possible. I am not flawless and as league commissioner ultimately what happens in the league falls at my feet. I take responsibility for my part in what has occurred and promise you all that I will try to grow from this in the areas that I need to grow. I will do my best to be a better league manager in the future.
 
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Wow. So much has happened in this last days!

I had no access to internet until today, so I didn't knew I made the playoffs!.:eek: (Living hell not having internet by the way).

I guess I'm happy I made the playoffs!:) But sad that it happened this way. I agree that for the next year we should try and clarify which trades will be vetoed. And I hope grapes911 comes back for next year.

I understand both sides in the case. Mscriv decision has its good reasons, but I have to say that if I were to decide, I wouldn't have vetoed the trade.

But, even considering this situation, I think you are making a great job as commissioner mscriv. I really liked taking part of this league and I hope I'm back for next year.
 
We'll, I'm gonna get killed today by a Wonton Hand Cannon's team that has had multiple players go off for big numbers. Congrats on the win and best of luck in the championship.
 
Well the team played well. We had some mid-season injuries that hurt us a lot and I admit I made a bad trade.

We are going to be working on some stuff off-season and hopefully make a comeback next season.


/End of season press conference.
 
I admit I made a bad trade.

I think you made an excellent trade. Although, I do think that what happened does show the inherent risk in the strategy of taking multiple top players at a specific position in the hopes of trading one of them. I've always thought it best to draft to fill your team as best you can. There's just so much left to chance in hoping that you can work out a trade.
 
Thanks! This was my first time playing an actual fantasy league. I'm surprised I made it so far without a single trade, just waiver adds.

Foles definitely came up big for me. Think I would have beaten Grapes though?
 
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