Has anyone ever calibrated a pro display XDR?

[chfilm]

Hey,

I have two Pro Display XDRs here and am considering the right path forward. I got a cheap calibrate display probe PRO HL to do some measurements and both displays show delta e values of around 3-4, which is kind of starting to bother me. I can calibrate them with the colorimeter, sure, but all I’ll get is an ICC profile which is insufficient for grading work.
The proper way as Apple suggests would be to use a spectrometer but I don’t know where to find a specialist in my region who can do that for me.

Hence just the interest- has anyone ever perform this procedure themselves? How does this work? Does this generate an actual hardware 3d lut to adjust the display on a deeper level? I feel this is necessary at this point before it gets even worse.

 

[JimmyG]

Hi chfilm,

I cannot speak from any personal experience but I have kept abreast of Apple's XDR implimentations re: "display calibration" in regards to the XDR display on my M1 Max XDR MBP (which I've yet to calibrate! LOL). Here's a list of resources I've accumulated...

Measure the calibration of your MacBook Pro with Liquid Retina XDR display, Apple Studio Display, or Apple Pro Display XDR - Apple Support

Measure the calibration of your MacBook Pro with Liquid Retina XDR display, Apple Studio Display, or Apple Pro Display XDR - Apple Support

Learn how to measure the calibration of your display. Depending on the needs of your workflow, you can also fine-tune the calibration or perform in-field recalibration on your display.

support.apple.com

Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0.0 - Apple Support

Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0.0 - Apple Support

Every Pro Display XDR undergoes state-of-the-art factory calibration with laboratory grade instrumentation.

support.apple.com

And there's this alternative route from the folks at Portrait Displays (makers of CalMan), (Disclaimer: Link provided for educational purposes, I have zero affiliation)...

How to Calibrate an Apple XDR Display using Patterns and Calman - YouTube

Hope this is helpful.

JimmyG

 

[chfilm]

Hi chfilm,

I cannot speak from any personal experience but I have kept abreast of Apple's XDR implimentations re: "display calibration" in regards to the XDR display on my M1 Max XDR MBP (which I've yet to calibrate! LOL). Here's a list of resources I've accumulated...

Measure the calibration of your MacBook Pro with Liquid Retina XDR display, Apple Studio Display, or Apple Pro Display XDR - Apple Support

Measure the calibration of your MacBook Pro with Liquid Retina XDR display, Apple Studio Display, or Apple Pro Display XDR - Apple Support

Learn how to measure the calibration of your display. Depending on the needs of your workflow, you can also fine-tune the calibration or perform in-field recalibration on your display.

support.apple.com

Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0.0 - Apple Support

Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0.0 - Apple Support

Every Pro Display XDR undergoes state-of-the-art factory calibration with laboratory grade instrumentation.

support.apple.com

And there's this alternative route from the folks at Portrait Displays (makers of CalMan), (Disclaimer: Link provided for educational purposes, I have zero affiliation)...

How to Calibrate an Apple XDR Display using Patterns and Calman - YouTube

Hope this is helpful.

JimmyG

Mhhh yea I reckon that none of these approaches works as a really full, proper calibration. I need someone with a spectro to come and measure / hardware calibrate my XDR. those ICC workflows don’t do anything useful I think..

Having measured my XDRs with calibrate revealed a quite significant delta e of 3.8 in average after four years. While not terrible, this is still not alright anymore for color accurate work :/

 

[JimmyG]

Hi chfilm,

I am curious as to your use-case here and your need for "color accurate work", can you elaborate? Also, as a point of reference, which display profile are you working in where you're finding that Delta E error? Also, owning your own colorimeter is/is-not an option?

I'm assuming (big mistake?!) that since you''re working with the Pro Display XDR (PD XDR henceforth) you have requirements for HDR color fidelity?

I ask all this as my interest here with PD XDR centers around being able to implement an HDR post-processing setup. My use of the 16.2" XDR display in my M1 Max MBP is, er, suboptimal (size-wise and resolution-wise) for the 6K and 8K HDR footage I'm accumulating. FWIW, I would find either a 32"/6K or 42"/8K XDR iMac an ideal AIO solution for my desk!

Keep us posted on how you proceed with getting your PD XDR calibrated!

Many thanks,
Jimmy G

 

[chfilm]

Hi chfilm,

I am curious as to your use-case here and your need for "color accurate work", can you elaborate? Also, as a point of reference, which display profile are you working in where you're finding that Delta E error? Also, owning your own colorimeter is/is-not an option?

I'm assuming (big mistake?!) that since you''re working with the Pro Display XDR (PD XDR henceforth) you have requirements for HDR color fidelity?

I ask all this as my interest here with PD XDR centers around being able to implement an HDR post-processing setup. My use of the 16.2" XDR display in my M1 Max MBP is, er, suboptimal (size-wise and resolution-wise) for the 6K and 8K HDR footage I'm accumulating. FWIW, I would find either a 32"/6K or 42"/8K XDR iMac an ideal AIO solution for my desk!

Keep us posted on how you proceed with getting your PD XDR calibrated!

Many thanks,
Jimmy G

Well I'm an editor but starting to do more and more colour grading work. I considered getting an LG oled Monitor as a reference screen, but I own two XDR displays and it's just unreasonably crowded on my desk with three of these monsters.
Also I really like the XDRs as Guis and need to switch back and forth.

I own my own colorimeter, but you need a spectroradiometer to properly calibrate the XDR. And they costs 5 digits...

I meased the high delta e's in the bt1886 reference mode. HDR is not really a topic for me at this point, only SDR.

The LG that I had here had deltas around 0.2 vs 3.8 on the XDR... :/

 

[JimmyG]

Hi chfilm,

While Apple's documentation does specify the use of a spectroradiometer for the PD XDR I see that the folks at Calibrite off two Colorimeters (Display Plus HL, Display Pro HL) that are advertised to work for Apple's miniLED XDR displays. In looking at their advertisement documentation here...

Selecting the Correct Backlight Technology - Calibrite - United States

Welcome to Calibrite

We are dedicated to providing the very best solutions for photographers, filmmakers, designers and content creators.

calibrite.com

...they state...

<<
Apple display technology types:


– Mini LED – Current M1 and M2 series Macbook Pro systems and the Apple Pro Display use a Mini LED XDR Liquid Retina Display. On these systems a full P3 gamut is only achievable using the Calibrite Pro HL and Plus HL devices. For other devices and to limit display gamut to sRGB, select ‘PFS Phosphor’.


– White LED – Apple displays manufactured after 2009, including the new 27″ Apple Studio Display (see exceptions below)


– PFS Phosphor – Intel based Macbook Pro 15″ and 16″ manufactured in and after 2016 and Macbook Pro 13″ manufactured in and after 2020.


– GB-LED – iMac 4K 21.5″, 4.5K 24″, 5K 27″ Retina displays in and after late 2015.
>>

As they did not specifically mention the Pro Display XDR by name I did put in a support request inquiring about whether either of their two spectrometers are suited to calibrate the PD XDR. I'll report back their response.

Good to know these products are appropriate for my 16.2" M1 Max XDR MBP, but I would seriously have to reconsider the viability of a PD XDR purchase if the calibration tools (spectroradiometer) more than double the cost of ownership!
_______________

Edit: addendum: So, in looking further into my previous suggestion for the Portrait Displays Patterns/C6 HDR2000 colorimeter solution they specifically state...

<<
The perfect Pro Display XDR companion.

You validate me. Patterns™ paired with Calman is the perfect companion for Pro Display XDR allowing for calibration and validation. If color accuracy was a crime, you could lock these two up. We all want that perfect partner in life and Pro Display XDR is no exception.
>>

Patterns

Patterns™ for Mac

Patterns Testing, red, green, blue… Introducing Patterns, the quintessential video test pattern generator for macOS. Backed by Metal, Patterns is the world’s first generator to support HDR on the Mac. It doesn’t stop there, Patterns is also color management compliant allowing for validation...

store.portrait.com

...and this would be a no-go on your end?

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with any of the products mentioned, questions and information provided for educational purposes only.

JG

 

[chfilm]

Hi chfilm,

While Apple's documentation does specify the use of a spectroradiometer for the PD XDR I see that the folks at Calibrite off two Colorimeters (Display Plus HL, Display Pro HL) that are advertised to work for Apple's miniLED XDR displays. In looking at their advertisement documentation here...

Selecting the Correct Backlight Technology - Calibrite - United States

Welcome to Calibrite

We are dedicated to providing the very best solutions for photographers, filmmakers, designers and content creators.

calibrite.com

...they state...

<<
Apple display technology types:


– Mini LED – Current M1 and M2 series Macbook Pro systems and the Apple Pro Display use a Mini LED XDR Liquid Retina Display. On these systems a full P3 gamut is only achievable using the Calibrite Pro HL and Plus HL devices. For other devices and to limit display gamut to sRGB, select ‘PFS Phosphor’.


– White LED – Apple displays manufactured after 2009, including the new 27″ Apple Studio Display (see exceptions below)


– PFS Phosphor – Intel based Macbook Pro 15″ and 16″ manufactured in and after 2016 and Macbook Pro 13″ manufactured in and after 2020.


– GB-LED – iMac 4K 21.5″, 4.5K 24″, 5K 27″ Retina displays in and after late 2015.
>>

As they did not specifically mention the Pro Display XDR by name I did put in a support request inquiring about whether either of their two spectrometers are suited to calibrate the PD XDR. I'll report back their response.

Good to know these products are appropriate for my 16.2" M1 Max XDR MBP, but I would seriously have to reconsider the viability of a PD XDR purchase if the calibration tools (spectroradiometer) more than double the cost of ownership!
_______________

Edit: addendum: So, in looking further into my previous suggestion for the Portrait Displays Patterns/C6 HDR2000 colorimeter solution they specifically state...

<<
The perfect Pro Display XDR companion.

You validate me. Patterns™ paired with Calman is the perfect companion for Pro Display XDR allowing for calibration and validation. If color accuracy was a crime, you could lock these two up. We all want that perfect partner in life and Pro Display XDR is no exception.
>>

Patterns

Patterns™ for Mac

Patterns Testing, red, green, blue… Introducing Patterns, the quintessential video test pattern generator for macOS. Backed by Metal, Patterns is the world’s first generator to support HDR on the Mac. It doesn’t stop there, Patterns is also color management compliant allowing for validation...

store.portrait.com

...and this would be a no-go on your end?

Disclaimer: I am not affiliated with any of the products mentioned, questions and information provided for educational purposes only.

JG

Yeah, what they’re offering is just ICC calibration which has nothing to do with a proper hardware calibration :/ the issue with the XDRs is that they are so locked into the Apple system, you can not use industry standard calibration software to generate a 3d lut and load that into the display itself.

 

[JimmyG]

Yeah, what they’re offering is just ICC calibration which has nothing to do with a proper hardware calibration :/ the issue with the XDRs is that they are so locked into the Apple system, you can not use industry standard calibration software to generate a 3d lut and load that into the display itself.

Well, I'm just trying to understand your use-case and why a full hardware calibration would make such a difference (or be preferable) for your end-user needs.

By way of example, I certainly understand if a client requires the utmost color fidelity to properly display their corporate colors across various mediums. And I understand the desire to have one's creative work seen/viewed as close to one's creative intent.

However, in both cases, where the medium/device choice of the viewer is (obviously) out of the control of the creator I ask myself "just how good does color fidelity have to be to be "good enough"?"

Using a personally-specific need as another example, in my years of outdoor imaging I've yet to find any camera or post-processing setup that satisfactorily provides me the accurate violet hues I encounter in nature. I've come to accept that there is a "good enough" that I have had to settle for as technology has yet to provide me with the tools to either capture or display, to my satisfaction, that hue range. So, "going PD XDR" to see if it helps me get closer to that realization is, by itself, an tidy investment and gamble and, that it does not solve my creative need, I'm hard-pressed to see where either a software vs hardware calibration will make any difference on my end with that particular display.

I am curious as to what benefits you hope to gain with a proper hardware calibration via spectroradiometer vs the software calibrations provided via colorimeter? Your thoughts and feedback on all this?

 

[ojfd]

Are you sure guys you need spectroradiometer and not spectrophotometer?

 

[JimmyG]

Are you sure guys you need spectroradiometer and not spectrophotometer?

Hi ojfd,

The OP has done a preliminary measurement of their 2x Pro Display XDR's using the Calibrite Display Pro HL colorimeter which can generate an .ICC Profile meant to correct the display's Delta E color error. In contrast, Apple's own Pro Display XDR Calibrator specifically recommends the usage of several different spectroradiometers which can provide hardware Delta E error correction values to the display.

<<
Pro Display XDR Calibrator enables in-field recalibration of Pro Display XDR for specific color workflows that may require custom calibration. Recalibration with this utility requires one of the following spectroradiometers:

• Photo Research SpectraScan PR-740, PR-745 or PR-788
• Colorimetry Research CR-300

>>

I'm unaware of usage of a "spectrophotometer", which, to my knowledge, measures light passing through a material, for display calibration. Can you elaborate?

Jimmy G

 

[ojfd]

Spectroradiometers are mostly used for scientific research purposes and are total overkill. And way too expensive.
Apple is nuts with their requirements. On the other hand, there's a sucker born every minute.

X-Rite i1Pro series devices (original, 2; 3) are all spectrophotometers. That's what I use for display calibration. Still on the first version, still going strong in my enviroment (non ARM).

X-rite i1Photo Pro 3 review using the i1Pro 3 spectrophotometer

Review of the X-Rite i1Photo Pro 3 monitor, scanner and printer profiling package using the i1Pro 3 spectrophotometer. Comparison with i1Pro 3 plus

www.northlight-images.co.uk

They should not be confused with their i1Display Pro colorimeters, which, in my opinion, are useless, no matter what the ads and YT parrots say. Just google colorimeter lifespan.

EDIT. Here's how I used mine for one fun project.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-have-you-done-with-a-powerpc-today.2233788/post-32379785

 

[JimmyG]

Spectroradiometers are mostly used for scientific research purposes and are total overkill. And way too expensive.
Apple is nuts with their requirements. On the other hand, there's a sucker born every minute.

X-Rite i1Pro series devices (original, 2; 3) are all spectrophotometers. That's what I use for display calibration. Still on the first version, still going strong in my enviroment (non ARM).

X-rite i1Photo Pro 3 review using the i1Pro 3 spectrophotometer

Review of the X-Rite i1Photo Pro 3 monitor, scanner and printer profiling package using the i1Pro 3 spectrophotometer. Comparison with i1Pro 3 plus

www.northlight-images.co.uk

They should not be confused with their i1Display Pro colorimeters, which, in my opinion, are useless, no matter what the ads and YT parrots say. Just google colorimeter lifespan.

EDIT. Here's how I used mine for one fun project.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/what-have-you-done-with-a-powerpc-today.2233788/post-32379785

I concur that going the spectroradiometer route per Apple's recommendations is, er, "overkill" for most folks' needs and is most-certainly, price wise, not a consumer-friendly solution.

Use of a spectrophotometer is useful for folks working in print (i.e. for color matching prints), I'm not sure what to make of your experiments applying the device directly to an ancient PowerBook G4 display. Am I missing something obvious? Regardless, the OP's application is for film/video work.

I did do a quick search for "colorimeter lifespan" and did not locate any information that would confirm your "useless" assertion. Can you provide a link or two?

I did stumble on this tidit this morning...apparently Ventura has now incorporated the Apple Pro Display Calibrator into the Display preferences for with XDR displays in the M(x) MBPs which now adds the same spectroradiometer calibration functionality of the Pro Display XDR Calibrator 1.0.0 (linked earlier) to the Apple silicon MBPs.

YouTuber ArtIsRight has provided a full rundown and calibration usage scenarios for Sonoma in this tutorial...

Apple Pro Display Calibration Guide & Tips in macOS Sonoma - YouTube

(Note: Link provided for educational purposes, I have zero affiliation.)

After watching this tutorial a couple of times it's become clear to me that the need for a full hardware calibration using a spectroradiometer has its place and need in professional environments, otherwise, it would seem that the Fine Tuning with a colorimeter should suffice for non-professional, non-color-critical use cases.

My synopsis, color perfection is an unattainable goal in all use cases, one must decide based on their use case which criterion they need to attain to understand which calibration path to travel.

However, my question to the OP remains inquiring about their use-case and need.

JG

 

[ojfd]

Use of a spectrophotometer is useful for folks working in print (i.e. for color matching prints)

Are you trolling me or what?

X-Rite (formerly Gretag Macbeth) i1Pro has been industry standard measurement device for almost two decades. It has been used to calibrate literally millions of displays worldwide. And yes, it can do more than just measure displays.
It has been supported by all major software packages on a Mac and Win for ages. From freeware to 10k+ stuff.

It is just a precision measurement tool. If software supports it, it will just measure either emitted or reflected light spectrum. What you do with data coming out of it, depends on the software.

X-rite i1 Pro Review - TFT Central

I'm not sure what to make of your experiments applying the device directly to an ancient PowerBook G4 display.
Am I missing something obvious?

Yes. Every display needs to be calibrated, whether crappy or not.

Regardless, the OP's application is for film/video work.

It doesn't matter whether the display is for video, pre-press or photo. A display is a display. ICC profiles might be different (LUT or matrix based), but that's about it.

I did do a quick search for "colorimeter lifespan" and did not locate any information that would confirm your "useless" assertion. Can you provide a link or two?

Monitor Calibration Longevity | Image Science

The expected life-span of monitor calibrators and how to know when to upgrade.

imagescience.com.au

 

[JimmyG]

Are you trolling me or what?

X-Rite (formerly Gretag Macbeth) i1Pro has been industry standard measurement device for almost two decades. It has been used to calibrate literally millions of displays worldwide. And yes, it can do more than just measure displays.
It has been supported by all major software packages on a Mac and Win for ages. From freeware to 10k+ stuff.

It is just a precision measurement tool. If software supports it, it will just measure either emitted or reflected light spectrum. What you do with data coming out of it, depends on the software.

X-rite i1 Pro Review - TFT Central

Yes. Every display needs to be calibrated, whether crappy or not.



It doesn't matter whether the display is for video, pre-press or photo. A display is a display. ICC profiles might be different (LUT or matrix based), but that's about it.

Monitor Calibration Longevity | Image Science

The expected life-span of monitor calibrators and how to know when to upgrade.

imagescience.com.au

Hi ojfd,

Not trolling, whatsoever, apologies if my queries came across so! FWIW, I ask a lot of questions whenever subject-matter gets a bit complicated on my end. When posting, I figure, "if I'm having a time getting my "head around" something", likely, other folks are, too.

The fact that Apple's recommendation for Pro Display XDR calibration is to go the display hardware calibration route with a spectroradiometer does pose a daunting cost-wise challenge for the non-professional "I can't write it off as business expense" user base. Being clear on "how that type of calibration with that type of equipment" differs in terms of user usage/application from the results one will get using a colorimeter solution was not absolutely clear for me coming into this thread/topic...ergo, my inquisitiveness. Writing as a non-professional user learning how to work with 4K/6K/8K HDR/SDR footage I'll have to content myself with the latter solution whether I'll be using a PD XDR (which I'm still contemplating "ownership of") or some other display solution! LOL

Thanks for the links and info and for sharing your G4 experiments, all very informative!

Hopefully the OP finds solutions on their end!

Best,
JimmyG

 

[ojfd]

Apple's recommendation to use the same, very expensive, piece of laboratory grade equipment that they use at the factory to regular consumers is plain silly! Putting up the app they use for calibration as download for consumers only makes matters worse and confuses people.

I was going to write a long-ish post, but then decided that I am not here to educate people in theoretical matters.

Anyway, first you have to find the software that:
* works on M1/M2
* recognizes your Apple/MBP display
* can create matrix based profiles
* can create LUT based profiles for video work
* recognizes your measurement device

The rest ist just an understanding of the process, setting the correct measurement parameters (most errors occur here) and a lot of elbow grease.

There are two apps that come to my mind.

1. DisplayCal (free)
GUI for ArgyllCMS engine. People are reporting good results. You'll need the ArgyllCMS distro that works on M1/M2.

DisplayCAL—Display Calibration and Characterization powered by ArgyllCMS

Display calibration and profiling with a focus on accuracy and versatility

displaycal.net

2. basICColor Display (affordable, full demo available)

basICColor display 6 Pro - monitor calibriation and ICC-profiling | basICColor | Ingenieurbüro Dipl.-Ing. Karl Koch

Here's one useful paper:

https://www.basiccolor.de/assets/Uploads/calibrate-XDR-display2.pdf

If you only have a colorimeter, give it a go. If it's a recent model, maybe the RGB filters are OK. XRite and others say they have improved the design over their previous models.

(I'm still sticking to spectrophotometers )