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msackey

macrumors 68040
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Oct 8, 2020
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As my signature shows, my computer is a MacBook Pro from 2017. It still works fine for my needs, though just a few days ago I discovered that its battery has swelling issues. It swells when it's charging, but once it has stopped charging it de-swells. This is not the original battery, but is rather the replacement which I think I had Apple install several years ago. I will use this laptop as long as I can, though I have no intentions of replacing the battery at this point since the money spent to replace the battery is better spent towards buying a new one.

Anyhow, this has made me wonder if Mac laptop battery technology has made significant improvements since 2017. I intend to replace my laptop with something like a MacBook Air, although when that would be would really depend on the swollen battery. Have they even solved the problem of swollen lithium-ion batteries? Quite annoying to have a swollen battery though. At its current state, it slightly impedes the trackpad button.
 
If your battery is showing any signs of swelling you should get it replaced or stop using it completely.

They can rupture, explode and catch on fire.
Yeah, that's what I thought, too. However, over a year ago when my spouse's laptop did the same thing with even more swelling (and it's an older model), we took it to the Apple store for an assessment and they said it's fine and to keep using it. I was a bit surprised too at the advice.
 
However, over a year ago when my spouse's laptop did the same thing with even more swelling (and it's an older model), we took it to the Apple store for an assessment and they said it's fine and to keep using it. I was a bit surprised too at the advice.
How they know battery swelling unless they look and battery visibly swollen? Battery that has swollen and impeding hardware functionality definitely should be replaced.
 
I, too, recommend against using a laptop with a battery that swells up.

I have no insider knowledge, but I reckon that since 2017 battery tech has improved for ALL laptops, not just Macs.

If you don't want to get the battery replaced again, might be time to start shopping for a replacement. You can save some money by going Apple refurbished, if they are available where you are...
 
To answer your question...there has been no widespread battery swelling, so I'm not sure what you mean by improving battery technology.

The laptops you have seem to be flawed in some way.
 
To show I’m not just picking doom and gloom or click-bait sources, I’ll start with this:

Potential For A Swollen Battery To Explode​

Key PointsExplanation
Swollen Battery = Increased RiskA swollen battery indicates internal damage or a chemical reaction producing gas. This buildup of pressure makes it far more likely to rupture or explode than a healthy battery.
Explosion is Possible, Not GuaranteedWhile a swollen battery presents a significant safety hazard, immediate explosion is not inevitable. Factors like the severity of the damage, temperature, and external pressure influence the risk.
The Danger Lies in the UnexpectedThe main concern is that you can’t predict when a swollen battery might finally fail. It could happen during use, charging, or just sitting idle, leading to potential fire or injury.
Prevention vs. WaitingProactive replacement of a swollen battery is vastly preferable to waiting for it to potentially explode. Even if it doesn’t explode, a swollen battery will severely impact device functionality.




To answer your question...there has been no widespread battery swelling, so I'm not sure what you mean by improving battery technology.

The laptops you have seem to be flawed in some way.
I’ve only had one instance of battery swelling/bulging/inflating and — perhaps coincidence — it was when I had my MacBook plugged in more than not.

By the way, for many years now, (in most instances) I’ve been using my devices until they auto-power off due to low battery charge state, then allowing them to charge to full.
 
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To be fair with the advances in mobile phone batteries and how much juice they can now squeeze out of them, Im hoping this jump in technology will come to Laptops swell.

Take the Honor V3 and Oppo N5 phones and how slim their batteries are. They last longer than Samsung whose phones are significantly bigger.

Let's hope Apple and manufacturers can take this technology either into making even thinner laptops or laptops the same size with longer lasting batteries.
 
To show I’m not just picking doom and gloom or click-bait sources, I’ll start with this:







I’ve only had one instance of battery swelling/bulging/inflating and — perhaps coincidence — it was when I had my MacBook plugged in more than not.

By the way, for many years now, (in most instances) I’ve been using my devices until they auto-power off due to low battery charge state, then allowing them to charge to full.
I have owned eight Apple laptops in 25 years, worked as a private IT guy for Mac users, and have only seen one battery swelling in that time.
 
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By the way, for many years now, (in most instances) I’ve been using my devices until they auto-power off due to low battery charge state, then allowing them to charge to full.

You know that is a massive shock to the battery, right?
I've been taught to never, ever do it that way, unless absolutely necessary.

Where did you learn this?
 
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Lithium ion is the best battery type we have for technology but the drawback is they can swell especially if they're older. It has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with lithium ion technology. It's rare, but it happens and you shouldn't use any device with a swollen battery. We had someone do that and not tell IT at a previous job of mine and their laptop literally caught fire in their office.
 
To answer your question...there has been no widespread battery swelling, so I'm not sure what you mean by improving battery technology.

The laptops you have seem to be flawed in some way.
It seems that swelling lithium-ion batteries is not uncommon. It is not necessarily a common affair, but it isn't uncommon either. I've had two iPhone 6 battery swell in the distant past, each time the battery was replaced by Apple. I've also had this laptop's battery swell before and that was replaced by Apple, and 4 or 5 years later it's swelling again.
 
Lithium ion is the best battery type we have for technology but the drawback is they can swell especially if they're older. It has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with lithium ion technology.

Yeah, that's why I wondered if battery technology has improved since 2017, especially to lower chances of swelling.

The current laptop I have should last me many, MANY more years except this swollen battery issue might shorten its life and/or become too much of a hazard to use. Without this swelling issue, I wouldn't even consider getting a replacement.
 
I have owned eight Apple laptops in 25 years, worked as a private IT guy for Mac users, and have only seen one battery swelling in that time.
Then you're lucky. I've seen it multiple times and I'm not an IT person. I've seen it twice on this laptop that I'm using; my partner's laptop; and my dad's laptop.
 
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Then you're lucky. I've seen it multiple times and I'm not an IT person. I've seen it twice on this laptop that I'm using; my partner's laptop; and my dad's laptop.
It's odd how you assume I'm lucky and not that you're unlucky.
 
It seems that swelling lithium-ion batteries is not uncommon. It is not necessarily a common affair, but it isn't uncommon either. I've had two iPhone 6 battery swell in the distant past, each time the battery was replaced by Apple. I've also had this laptop's battery swell before and that was replaced by Apple, and 4 or 5 years later it's swelling again.
Are you your family's IT person?
 
Yeah, that's why I wondered if battery technology has improved since 2017, especially to lower chances of swelling.

The current laptop I have should last me many, MANY more years except this swollen battery issue might shorten its life and/or become too much of a hazard to use. Without this swelling issue, I wouldn't even consider getting a replacement.


I could be wrong but I thought 2017 you could still fairly easily replace the battery on it, iFixIt may have a guide on their site and you can see if it's something you want to try and undertake.
 
You know that is a massive shock to the battery, right?
Nah. For lead and NiCd, that’s still somewhat true. However, any (respectable) modern charging system and battery has a fair amount of safeguards
Additionally, when an iPhone, iPad, MacBook, etc battery reaches zero state of charge, it’s quite a bit from fully discharged, super low voltage. Beyond lessening the likelihood of actual deep discharge, the extra, hidden margin is to extend features such as Find My and to show status indicators (e.g., display the low battery and connect to charger icons).

Just like the 80% battery cutoff, whether state of charge (i.e., charging up to) or state of health (i.e., “should” be replaced if below/less) is arbitrary. There’s fact behind it but it’s not absolute and simply a reasonable compromise — that is, a batteries most comfortable state is hovering around 50% charge but it would be unrealistic/unfeasible to use only a small fraction of a battery’s capacity, for example, 40 - 60% charge. Oh… And furthermore, the “calibration is harmful to a battery” ‘urban myth’. In fact, (re)calibration is still very much useful.


If you have Charge Limit set to less than 100 percent, your iPhone will occasionally charge to 100 percent to maintain accurate battery state-of-charge estimates.


Where did you learn this?
The behavior primarily stems from my OCPD, that is, it feels wrong to stop or start charging at some arbitrary or otherwise seemingly random percentage. Although, there’s nothing entirely wrong with connecting and disconnecting a device from a charger whenever it’s convenient. But learning the previous paragraph items has helped reinforce how not harmful/problematic the action is.
I've been taught to never, ever do it that way, unless absolutely necessary.
There are only a few things you need to know and do:
Avoid high ambient temperature:
Your device is designed to perform well in a wide range of ambient temperatures, with 62° to 72° F (16° to 22° C) as the ideal comfort zone. It’s especially important to avoid exposing your device to ambient temperatures higher than 95° F (35° C), which can permanently damage battery capacity. That is, your battery won’t power your device as long on a given charge. Charging the device in high ambient temperatures can damage it further. Software may limit charging above 80% when the recommended battery temperatures are exceeded. Even storing a battery in a hot environment can damage it irreversibly. When using your device in a very cold environment, you may notice a decrease in battery life, but this condition is temporary. Once the battery’s temperature returns to its normal operating range, its performance will return to normal as well.
— The device can manage temperatures fairly well except when the ambient is above a recommended or required level. It’s not as if an iPhone has a refrigerant system.

• Exercise (i.e., use) the battery, whether that’s charging or discharging. Don’t let it sit (i.e., be static) at the edge of charge range for a long period of time.
— Age is going to degrade the battery nonetheless. So, not using it is nearly worthless.
— If you don’t want to rely on Apple’s Battery Optimize feature, set the battery charge to 50% when the device is connected to a charger for an extended/lengthy period of time with a utility such AlDente.

• Routine recalibration (as mentioned earlier).
 
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I could be wrong but I thought 2017 you could still fairly easily replace the battery on it, iFixIt may have a guide on their site and you can see if it's something you want to try and undertake.
iFixIT indicates the battery is about $179 and they are out of stock on it. :(

I'm not sure I'd want to put more money into this very, very old laptop. It's still working pretty well, although I have noticed that for some reason, often after the laptop goes to sleep and then re-wakes, the Touchbar is no longer showing. Only a restart will this Touchbar show up again. I feel this is a software issue, but perhaps there is a hardware issue too, but not sure.
 
The behavior primarily stems from my OCPD, that is, it feels wrong to stop or start charging at some arbitrary or otherwise seemingly random percentage. Although, there’s nothing entirely wrong with connecting and disconnecting a device from a charger whenever it’s convenient.
I’m not great with analogies but I’ll try one.

At a restaurant, the server might ask if you want your beverage topped off. The logic behind this is that if the item is refilled before it is empty, you’ll never reach an instance of it not being available when you desire it. For me, that seems possibly wasteful, potentially needlessly leaving some behind. Consume the item in entirety then, and if you need/want more, refill it completely. The probable inconvenience has little weight in my consideration.

Also again, on the subject of rechargeable batteries, performing a full, uninterrupted cycle helps maintain calibration (i.e., charge measurement — well, as much as realistically possible). However, constant recalibration is certainly unnecessary. Ultimately, there should be no problems charging a device when necessary or convenient (e.g., overnight, before an outing) with occasional recalibration.
 
I’m not great with analogies but I’ll try one.

At a restaurant, the server might ask if you want your beverage topped off. The logic behind this is that if the item is refilled before it is empty, you’ll never reach an instance of it not being available when you desire it. For me, that seems possibly wasteful, potentially needlessly leaving some behind. Consume the item in entirety then, and if you need/want more, refill it completely. The probable inconvenience has little weight in my consideration.

Also again, on the subject of rechargeable batteries, performing a full, uninterrupted cycle helps maintain calibration (i.e., charge measurement — well, as much as realistically possible). However, constant recalibration is certainly unnecessary. Ultimately, there should be no problems charging a device when necessary or convenient (e.g., overnight, before an outing) with occasional recalibration.
All good, but everything I've ever read about battery chemistry says that going all the way to 0% is bad for the cells.
But, your battery your choice!
 
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All good [...]
But, your battery your choice!
Indeed. And me being obsessed with completing cycles isn’t something I recommend either, not because it’s not good but because it’s not necessary or an extra benefit to do every time.

but everything I've ever read about battery chemistry says that going all the way to 0% is bad for the cells
There’s some truth to that; for example, with more passive (non-’smart’) batteries (e.g., disposable AA, AAA, etc sized), even a brief/single deep discharge could substantially decrease a battery's lifespan or be unrecoverable (i.e., unable to ever charge again). However, this and other facts are often taken out of context, misunderstood, and/or exaggerated. One of the most common misconstrued aspects is that it’s about duration. Keeping a battery at or near either ‘extreme’ charge state, fully discharged or fully charged, for an extended (e.g., weeks, months, years) period can result in damage. However, in the vast majority of instances, simply or briefly reaching the edges of the range (e.g., connecting to a charger shortly after the device has turned off due to low battery) has negligible effect, a typical degradation impact.

Store it half-charged when you store it long term.​

If you want to store your device long term, two key factors will affect the overall health of your battery: the environmental temperature and the percentage of charge on the battery when it’s powered down for storage. Therefore, we recommend the following:
  • Do not fully charge or fully discharge your device’s battery — charge it to around 50%. If you store a device when its battery is fully discharged, the battery could fall into a deep discharge state, which renders it incapable of holding a charge. Conversely, if you store it fully charged for an extended period of time, the battery may lose some capacity, leading to shorter battery life.
  • Power down the device to avoid additional battery use.
  • Place your device in a cool, moisture-free environment that’s less than 90° F (32° C).
  • If you plan to store your device for longer than six months, charge it to 50% every six months.
Depending on how long you store your device, it may be in a low-battery state when you remove it from long-term storage. After it’s removed from storage, it may require 20 minutes of charging with the original adapter before you can use it.

HOW TO STORE AN EBIKE BATTERY​

To care for your ebike battery, it’s important to know how to store it properly. Storing your bike battery in the wrong place or at the wrong temperature can drastically reduce its lifespan.

Follow these steps when storing your Aventon battery for short or prolonged periods of time:

  • 1. Always ensure your battery is off and the bike is not on.
  • 2. Store your battery in a dry, climate-controlled, indoor location between 32° F and 104° F (or 0° C and 40° C). Water, humidity, and damp conditions are not good for any electrical device.
  • 3. Lithium-ion batteries should never be stored on an empty charge. Before you store your ebike for the long term, charge the battery to a 75%-80% range. Check on it every month to make sure the percentage of the battery's energy doesn't drop under 75%. This will help you to extend the battery's life.
  • 4. Do not leave the battery attached to the bike frame for a prolonged period of time. Remove it from your ebike when storing long-term.

Some companies do have… interesting… instructions:
How to Charge and Discharge:

1.Charge the battery to 100% and leave it stationary for more than 24 hours.

2. Insert the battery into the drone. Fly it and when the power level is less than 20%, land your drone and remove the battery.

3. Leave the battery stationary for more than 6 hours.

4. Charge the battery to 100% power level.

Here are some battery maintenance tips.

1. Store the batteries in a well-ventilated place.
2
. To maintain good conditions of the battery active materials, charge and discharge the battery about every 3 months.
3. Cool down the battery first after a flight, and then charge it.
4. Avoid 0%. If the battery is stored after completely drained, it may over-discharge and be damaged. The battery will enter sleep mode if it's depleted and stored for a long time. Recharge the battery to wake it up from the sleep mode.
5. If a battery will not be used for 5 days or longer, discharge it to 50%-70% state of charge for storage.

* Highlight emphasis was done by me.


I generally suggest or agree with others who suggest charging the device when you need or it’s convenient — with an occasional recalibration. Don’t worry about pinpointing values, whether that’s 0-100%, 20-80%, 40-60%, etc. There’s little to no gain.
 
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