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jwolf6589

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
3,615
809
Colorado
Bought a Appletv 4K the other day at Best Buy and behold my previous problems are gone. Perhaps my old HD unit had a hardware problem with WIFI. Anyways as I bought the unit I asked the sales rep if the appletv sold well and he said no. I said that perhaps the Apple store or online sells much better. What do you say? Does the appletv not sell well? It’s a great unit and I am impressed with the new remote and the speed of the A12 chip over the old A8 chip.
 

Realityck

macrumors 601
Nov 9, 2015
4,061
5,560
Silicon Valley, CA
Bought a Appletv 4K the other day at Best Buy and behold my previous problems are gone. Perhaps my old HD unit had a hardware problem with WIFI. Anyways as I bought the unit I asked the sales rep if the appletv sold well and he said no. I said that perhaps the Apple store or online sells much better. What do you say? Does the appletv not sell well? It’s a great unit and I am impressed with the new remote and the speed of the A12 chip over the old A8 chip.
There are a lot of people that look at digital streaming solutions from the cheapest point of view. The Apple TV 4K is actually quite a capable device that is pricy. There are also consumers that get the Apple TV app mixed up with what the Apple TV 4K provides. Most don't realize the differences is why the below post is valuable.


If you have a home theater setup the fact that you have a better GUI to navigate with constant App navigation, along with frequent app updates to support the latest tvOS functionality means this investment has a longer life potential.

Also you can set Apple Music app on the ATV 4k to provide a lossless 2 channel output to your sound system that is superior to most devices you interface to your other Apple Device in that regard.
 
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jwolf6589

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
3,615
809
Colorado
There are a lot of people that look at digital streaming solutions from the cheapest point of view. The Apple TV 4K is actually quite a capable device that is pricy. There are also consumers that get the Apple TV app mixed up with what the Apple TV 4K provides. Most don't realize the differences is why the below post is valuable.


If you have a home theater setup the fact that you have a better GUI to navigate with constant App navigation, along with frequent app updates to support the latest tvOS functionality means this investment has a longer life potential.

Also you can set Apple Music app on the ATV 4k to provide a lossless 2 channel output to your sound system that is superior to most devices you interface to your other Apple Device in that regard.
Also I like viewing my photos and videos on my bigger TV screen over a tiny computer or phone screen. The AppleTV OS is updated often but some of the third party apps are not unfortunately. However the only app that I have that I think turned into garbage is the MLB one.
 

orionquest

macrumors regular
Mar 16, 2022
150
71
The Great White North
I'm a aTV owner (not 4K). It's a bit over priced. Remote is ****, maybe the new version is better. Doesn't do proper fast forward, no moving the timeline 10 secs or the playhead over is not Fast Forward. My 80's VCR could do FF, not this. Best app is inFuse if you want to play your own content. Otherwise it gets the job done but could be much better.
 
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jwolf6589

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
3,615
809
Colorado
I'm a aTV owner (not 4K). It's a bit over priced. Remote is ****, maybe the new version is better. Doesn't do proper fast forward, no moving the timeline 10 secs or the playhead over is not Fast Forward. My 80's VCR could do FF, not this. Best app is inFuse if you want to play your own content. Otherwise it gets the job done but could be much better.
Get the 4K model. Much much better remote.
 

BigBlur

macrumors 6502
Jul 9, 2021
459
441
I don't know that I'd say it's a failure. It was/is a good device, but I would hazard a guess and say that sales could be declining now that many other devices support Apple TV+ and AirPlay. I was in the market to get a new Apple TV a couple years ago, but then they pushed the Apple TV app, Apple Music app, and AirPlay 2 support to my 2018 4K Samsung TV. I no longer had a need for the Apple TV anymore. I can watch Apple TV+ content, listen to Apple Music, and view my photos/videos via AirPlay. My TV already had the other streaming apps I want (Netflix, Hulu, History, Disney, YouTube, Discovery, etc).

Even a cheap Roku has all these, including the Apple TV app and AirPlay support. So it can be a tough pill for some to swallow getting an Apple TV when a Roku covers their needs, or if their TV already has it.

Another reason why I initially wanted an Apple TV was to use it as a HomeKit hub; but since my TV now had Apple TV and AirPlay support, I went with a HomePod mini to use as my hub instead.
 
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TiggrToo

macrumors 601
Aug 24, 2017
4,197
8,788
Out there...way out there
Bought a Appletv 4K the other day at Best Buy and behold my previous problems are gone. Perhaps my old HD unit had a hardware problem with WIFI. Anyways as I bought the unit I asked the sales rep if the appletv sold well and he said no. I said that perhaps the Apple store or online sells much better. What do you say? Does the appletv not sell well? It’s a great unit and I am impressed with the new remote and the speed of the A12 chip over the old A8 chip.
It's been out 15 years now.

Unsure how that qualifies as a failure in anyone's book.

Sure it's not been a "must buy" smash hit, but Apple still update and support it for all this time.
 
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w5jck

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2013
1,093
1,432
My guess is that the ATV 4K and HD models have not been huge sellers. The fact is that Apple rarely updates the hardware, and the last time after four years was only an incremental update. iPhones sell like hotcakes and pay their bills, so iPhones get annual updates. Devices that don’t sell well seem to get incremental updates every few to several years, or they get discontinued. Apple has a lot of iPhones and iPads so they can generate a lot of sales from Apple TV+ through them. Ditto for the Macs. They really don’t need to sell that many ATV devices to sell Apple TV+ subscriptions since all their devices can get the service through an app. Even 3rd party devices can install the Apple TV app. So Apple isn’t really going to hurt if the ATV 4K and HD models don’t sell well. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them either morph into a new entertainment system or even just get discontinued some year before long.

Even though the ATV models cost double or more what the other high end steaming devices go for, you really don’t get much improvement over video and audio, if any, especially if you don’t subscribe to Apple TV+. And quite frankly, I have Apple One but rarely watch Apple TV+ because they simply don’t offer much I’m interested in watching. Amazon’s Prime Video has much better selection and way more of it too.
 

Realityck

macrumors 601
Nov 9, 2015
4,061
5,560
Silicon Valley, CA
I'm a aTV owner (not 4K). It's a bit over priced. Remote is ****, maybe the new version is better. Doesn't do proper fast forward, no moving the timeline 10 secs or the playhead over is not Fast Forward. My 80's VCR could do FF, not this. Best app is inFuse if you want to play your own content. Otherwise it gets the job done but could be much better.
The last HD model and 4K 1st gen model uses the same remote. The 4K 2nd gen switched to a different remote effecting the way it does forward and reverse steps. TvOS apps need to allow the correct programming for both to allow the user to step time points correctly. So depending on the app it’s either implemented decently or skips a bit because not implemented both specs acceptable. Now there is no point of comparing a completely digital scrolling control to either a mediocre mechanical VCR, or a much more precise steps you can do with a BD player. Little remotes will never have the same precision of say using a computer based interface with film playback. It is what it is. ;)
 
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Realityck

macrumors 601
Nov 9, 2015
4,061
5,560
Silicon Valley, CA
My guess is that the ATV 4K and HD models have not been huge sellers. The fact is that Apple rarely updates the hardware, and the last time after four years was only an incremental update. iPhones sell like hotcakes and pay their bills, so iPhones get annual updates. Devices that don’t sell well seem to get incremental updates every few to several years, or they get discontinued.
We tend to ignore the technology baseline that the AppleTV is sold against. They redesign models based on new video/audio standards that current streaming supports, not new standards that hardly anyone uses. It’s like all the hubbub concerning HDMI 2.1, what streaming hosts produce 4K 120hz or 8k 60 Hz content? The 2nd gen ATV4K model updated SoC the hardware decoding to encompass VP9, that wasn’t much of a technological achievement but now you have YouTube 4K HDR content now. Apple is very conservative with what they back, when something worthwhile finally is mainstream you’ll see a new model.:)
 

orionquest

macrumors regular
Mar 16, 2022
150
71
The Great White North
Now there is no point of comparing a completely digital scrolling control to either a mediocre mechanical VCR, or a much more precise steps you can do with a BD player. Little remotes will never have the same precision of say using a computer based interface with film playback. It is what it is. ;)
Bah that medicore VCR set the standard which new players can't match. I use to use my PS3 as a media station and it was great. FF worked like it should you can see the video FF so you can visually know where to FF to!
 

Juicy Box

macrumors 603
Sep 23, 2014
6,225
7,037
I think it depends on what one would consider a "failure".

While I am an ATV fan, and have been a user of the ATV since the 1st gen, I have been disappointed in the lack of attention Apple gives the ATV.

Apple hardly ever advertises it, and it is barely a mention at their events.

I have no data backing this up, but I think outside of techies, hardly any normies know what the Apple TV even is. They know what a Roku is, they know what a Fire Stick is, and they know what Apple TV+ is, but most do not know what the Apple TV hardware is.

This is Apple fault.

I like the Apple TV HW, and I like tvOS, but the third party support for apps is lacking. The few gaming developers that tried supporting tvOS started to drop it like crazy a few years back. It doesn't help that Apple doesn't give a lot of support to the developers, either.

What used to be one of the best, and most popular games on tvOS, RISK, the developer dropped support for it last summer. This was a big let down for me.


Now, when it comes to the competition, the ATV HW is much better and more powerful than the competition. Actually, (unless things have changed in 2022) the older A10X in the ATV4K1 was still more powerful than any of the chips in the competing streaming boxes.

The problem with that is that a streaming box doesn't really need a lot of power, if it is just a streaming box. The much cheaper streaming devices, while not as powerful, can basically do the same job as the ATV4k, at least when it comes to streaming apps.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Apple discontinues the Apple TV. I would be sad, but not surprised.
 
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jwolf6589

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
3,615
809
Colorado
I think it depends on what one would consider a "failure".

While I am an ATV fan, and have been a user of the ATV since the 1st gen, I have been disappointed in the lack of attention Apple gives the ATV.

Apple hardly ever advertises it, and it is barely a mention at their events.

I have no data backing this up, but I think outside of techies, hardly any normies know what the Apple TV even is. They know what a Roku is, they know what a Fire Stick is, and they know what Apple TV+ is, but most do not know what the Apple TV hardware is.

This is Apple fault.

I like the Apple TV HW, and I like tvOS, but the third party support for apps is lacking. The few gaming developers that tried supporting tvOS started to drop it like crazy a few years back. It doesn't help that Apple doesn't give a lot of support to the developers, either.

What used to be one of the best, and most popular games on tvOS, RISK, the developer dropped support for it last summer. This was a big let down for me.


Now, when it comes to the competition, the ATV HW is much better and more powerful than the competition. Actually, (unless things have changed in 2022) the older A10X in the ATV4K1 was still more powerful than any of the chips in the competing streaming boxes.

The problem with that is that a streaming box doesn't really need a lot of power, if it is just a streaming box. The much cheaper streaming devices, while not as powerful, can basically do the same job as the ATV4k, at least when it comes to streaming apps.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Apple discontinues the Apple TV. I would be sad, but not surprised.
Well I bought a 3 year Apple care warranty with mine.
 

priitv8

macrumors 68040
Jan 13, 2011
3,907
583
Estonia
Also you can set Apple Music app on the ATV 4k to provide a lossless 2 channel output to your sound system that is superior to most devices you interface to your other Apple Device in that regard.
In addition, appleTV has one additional perk - it is the only solution to listen to native multichannel Atmos mixes from Apple Music. According to this article.
Screenshot 2022-04-14 at 08.56.34.png
 
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henrikhelmers

macrumors member
Nov 22, 2017
82
106
I think Apple isn’t satisfied with the Apple TV being just a piece in the home entertainment puzzle. As long as it has to be paired to a TV there is always the risk that it will lose to «good enough» TV software. Apple seems to be on top of things with AirPlay and TV+ apps.

I’m happy with my Apple TV, would like if they further explored the multi-user aspect. Stronger links to their ecosystem might be the lock-in they need.
 

Baron Thompson

macrumors member
May 8, 2020
38
20
I think it’s well worth the money. I experience the competition at friends houses and they’re not a great experience, slow, bad App Store and apps freezing (DAZN). The Apple TV just works as it should for us and it’s not one thing, it’s lots of little things; links to AirPods seamlessly, notifies me when someone is at the door, password inout via my iPhone, decent App Store (loving Huntdown right now), AirPlay, screen mirror, home hub…
 

w5jck

macrumors 65816
Nov 9, 2013
1,093
1,432
It’s been around for 15 years.
I think you are too fixated on the "been around for 15 years" idea. Apple didn't even include an App Store until I think the ATV HD model. My ATV 3red generation was little more than a door stop! It spent more time collecting dust than anything else. I gave up and moved to Rokus and Fire TVs until the ATV 4k was released. It has been the bastard child they neglect almost to the point of letting it die. Today it is a good device but with bad software (lots of bugs). Apple could have made the ATV a better competitor, but they just don't care that much for the device. The BIG MONEY is in the services like renting and selling videos, games, apps, and of course Apple TV+ and other related services. The ATV is clearly far from cutting edge, and probably will always be behind the curve. It is good, and I enjoy mine, but it isn't as good as it could and should be. I'm pissed that I still have to switch to my Sony Bravia's AndroidTV or the Fire TV Cube to watch true 4K HDR video from YouTube on my ATV 4K 2017 model.
 

jwolf6589

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Dec 15, 2010
3,615
809
Colorado
I think you are too fixated on the "been around for 15 years" idea. Apple didn't even include an App Store until I think the ATV HD model. My ATV 3red generation was little more than a door stop! It spent more time collecting dust than anything else. I gave up and moved to Rokus and Fire TVs until the ATV 4k was released. It has been the bastard child they neglect almost to the point of letting it die. Today it is a good device but with bad software (lots of bugs). Apple could have made the ATV a better competitor, but they just don't care that much for the device. The BIG MONEY is in the services like renting and selling videos, games, apps, and of course Apple TV+ and other related services. The ATV is clearly far from cutting edge, and probably will always be behind the curve. It is good, and I enjoy mine, but it isn't as good as it could and should be. I'm pissed that I still have to switch to my Sony Bravia's AndroidTV or the Fire TV Cube to watch true 4K HDR video from YouTube on my ATV 4K 2017 model.
My 4K works fine for me with the exception of the mlb app and also bugs in the podcast app.
 

clevins

macrumors 6502
Jul 26, 2014
362
525
Failure? In the sense that it doesn't dominate the streaming experience, yes. Absolutely. Is it a good device? Also yes.

But it's expensive and you have to value what the ATV does vs the Roku etc. I had a Roku (still have it somewhere) and it streamed 4K alright. But there were occasional hiccups between it and the Vizio it's connected to. Then, when I started useing NextDNS and saw the sheer volume of requests it was sending back to roku, I unplugged that POS.

I've got a previous generation ATV 4K that I grabbed off Woot for $100. STreams great. Easy, straightforward UI. No weirdness between it and the Vizio. So in that sense is it a failure? Hell no.

FYI on the Roku telemetry this is about 2 weeks worth of outbound messages that were blocked after I set this domain up on the denylist on NextDNS:

Screen Shot 2021-05-31 at 12.36.29 PM.jpg
 
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iStorm

macrumors 6502
Sep 18, 2012
442
573
Not a failure, but it's a dying breed. It was more popular 5-10 years ago when streaming started taking off and streaming devices were relatively new. Nowadays, most people just use the built-in apps on their TV or get a Roku. Like others have said, these already can do Apple TV+ and AirPlay. The recent MLB deal isn't exclusive to the Apple TV device either, we can watch baseball within the Apple TV app on our TVs/Rokus. What does an Apple TV provide these days? Basically a better experience and the ability to play Apple Arcade games on the TV. So the question is, is it worth $150-$200 for that? For the average user...probably not. Unless Apple's gaming business picks up, I really don't see this going anywhere.
 
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