Haswell Desktop CPU significantly warmer than Ivy?

luffytubby

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 22, 2008
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A friend told me that a few of the Haswell desktop reviews out there claim that Haswell is much warmer than Ivy, similar to how Sandy Bridge was unbearable hot and prone to overheating compared to its predecessor.

What are the chances of higher thermals going over to the mobile CPUs this time around? Will we have to wait for another year for temperatures going down?


I understand the tick tock mentality, but it was my understanding that Haswell was for mobile platforms, and making them even hotter. Some peoples laptops are idling at very high temperatures. it would suck if they got even hotter. OFC thats not Apples fault, but damn.
 

omgitsbees

macrumors member
Jun 5, 2013
44
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Does he have any sources to link you, that you can link us? I'm not seeing anything on Google.
 

lixuelai

macrumors 6502a
Oct 29, 2008
803
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Sandy Bridge ran a lot cooler than Ivy Bridge and it seems Haswell is a bit warmer than Ivy Bridge. However unless you are overclocking it makes no difference in a desktop.
 

dusk007

macrumors 68040
Dec 5, 2009
3,386
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I doesn't have to mean too much. Intel said that the transistors and process is more geared toward power efficiency than Ivy 22nm and only maintains performance. Might mean that the whole power target shifts downwards and while desktop chips still run fast enough they need more Voltage to do so.
You can only scale an architecture about one magnitude. 10-100W. 5-50W. So I guess it remains to be seen what that really means for mobile chips who run much closer to the optimum voltage it is designed for.
I doubt they will be any cooler than Ivy Bridge but chances are not really hotter either. It is not great overclocking with Haswell and Ivy already had the problem that once you hit a certain voltage temps ran rampant.

I have yet to see any decent review of a real mobile part. There are only some gaming notebook reviews out so far and they never really show any sort of useful picture for what is actually the mobile market.

http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Preview-Asus-G750JX-Gaming-Notebook.92341.0.html
They say it stays at 83-86°C constantly running at 3Ghz with no sign of throtteling. But it is a gaming notebook with good cooling anyway. One would have to wait for some actually thin heat constrained mobile notebooks.
 

Erasmus

macrumors 68030
Jun 22, 2006
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Hiding from Omnius in Australia
I am assuming that Intel's turboboost technology is continuing to improve over time. Frankly, in a modern computer, the raw CPU temperature is irrelevant. Far more interesting is the amount of heat that the fans and heatsink can dissipate. If turboboost is functioning correctly, it should be keeping the CPU temperature very high and constant by throttling up and down. For example, with good cooling, the CPU could be running at 3.4 GHz at 95˚C, but with bad cooling, it will run at 2.8 GHz, 95˚C.

So if Haswell is hotter than Ivy Bridge, it could simply be that Intel has decided to increase the thermal cap on the CPU, which just means performance increases, and is not indicative of a loss of efficiency.
 

thunng8

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2006
821
206
A friend told me that a few of the Haswell desktop reviews out there claim that Haswell is much warmer than Ivy, similar to how Sandy Bridge was unbearable hot and prone to overheating compared to its predecessor.
Yes, most reviews so far for desktop Haswell show that it is hotter and consumes slightly more power than Ivy Bridge and barely any faster. For desktop uses, Haswell is barely better than Ivy Bridge and even not a huge improvement on Sandy Bridge.

What are the chances of higher thermals going over to the mobile CPUs this time around? Will we have to wait for another year for temperatures going down?
There have been a few tests on power consumption on the quad core Haswell mobile chips and they do consume more power than Ivy Bridge under load.

However, they might consume less at idle or light load - this is the biggest advancement in Haswell along with improved Integrated graphics performance
 
Last edited:

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,288
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Yes, most reviews so far for desktop Haswell show that it is hotter and consumes slightly more power than Ivy Bridge and barely any faster. For desktop uses, Haswell is barely better than Ivy Bridge and even not a huge improvement on Sandy Bridge.
10-15% improvement in performance at the same clocks is not what I'd call 'barely better'. That's a pretty significant improvement for a really complex CPU architecture.
 

thunng8

macrumors 6502a
Feb 8, 2006
821
206
10-15% improvement in performance at the same clocks is not what I'd call 'barely better'. That's a pretty significant improvement for a really complex CPU architecture.
Where did you get 10-15% faster from? Most reviews show 0-10%, with an average being around 7%. Last CPU comparison I saw was this:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6985/choosing-a-gaming-cpu-at-1440p-adding-in-haswell-/4

and this:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i7-4770k-haswell-review,3521-13.html

The bad thing as well is that they were testing the unlocked K chips. So far at least the unlocked K chips from the Ivy Bridge generation can be clocked higher than Haswell, negating the minor speed advantage that Haswell has at the same clock.
 

fatlardo

macrumors 6502
Mar 15, 2011
300
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Not only that, but most desktop reviews show they run hotter. But my question is, will the laptop system run hotter as well compared to Ivy? I think I also read that the max for Haswell is 100C compared to Ivy 105C?
 

luffytubby

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 22, 2008
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Anand Lal Shimpi on the haswell launch;


"I don’t think I had a good grasp on why Intel’s Haswell launch felt so weird until now. Haswell less than a month after the arrival of a new CEO, and it shows up a couple of weeks after the abrupt change in leadership within the Intel Architecture Group. Dramatic change at the top is always felt several levels below.

To make matters worse, there are now four very important Haswell families that need to be validated, tested, launched and promoted.
There’s desktop Haswell, mobile Haswell, ultramobile Haswell ULT (U-series) and Haswell ULX (tablet, Y-series). The number one explanation I’m getting for why we don’t have a socketed K-series SKU with Crystalwell is that everyone is already too busy validating all of the other variants of Haswell that have to launch as soon as possible.

Unlike previous architectures where Intel spanned the gamut of TDPs, Haswell is expected to have success in pretty much all of the segments and as a result, getting everything out on time is very important.

As anyone who has tried to do too much with too little time/resources knows, these types of stories typically don’t end well. The result is one of the more disorganized launches in Intel history and it seems to be caused by dramatic changes at the top of the company combined with a very aggressive to-do list down below.
"




Not only that, but most desktop reviews show they run hotter. But my question is, will the laptop system run hotter as well compared to Ivy? I think I also read that the max for Haswell is 100C compared to Ivy 105C?


From Laptopmags review of the new Sony Vaio Pro 13 with the Haswell; http://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/sony-vaio-pro-13.aspx#review


"The VAIO Pro 13 certainly isn't the coolest ultraportable we've tested. After playing a Hulu video at full screen for 15 minutes, the middle of the underside registered 100 degrees. We consider anything above 95 degrees uncomfortable. The back edge of the notebook's bottom reached a more troubling 110 degrees. At least the touchpad (76 degrees) and the areas between the G and H keys (93 degrees) were cooler."



About graphics they they didn't notice any real difference;


"The Intel HD Graphics 4400 inside the VAIO Pro 13 is supposed to offer better performance than notebooks with Intel's older HD 4000 integrated GPU, but we didn't see much of a difference in our tests. For instance, the VAIO Pro 13 notched 600 on 3DMark 11, which narrowly beats the ATIV Book 9 but trails the XPS 13 (670), Aspire S7 (657) and Kirabook (690).

Can you get away with playing mainstream games like "World of Warcraft"? Barely. The VAIO Pro 13 registered 30 frames per second with its resolution set to 1280 x 1024 pixels. However, that rate plummeted to 20 fps at native full-HD resolution."




Battery life seems improved though;


"We're glad to see the Sony VAIO Pro 13 offers above-average endurance, and some of the thanks should probably go to Intel's more power-efficient Haswell chip. On the LAPTOP Battery Test, in which we surf the Web continuously on 40 percent brightness, the notebook lasted a strong 7 hours and 20 minutes. That runtime beats the ultraportable category average (5:55) by nearly 1.5 hours and also wipes the floor with the Samsung ATIV Book 9 (5:07), Aspire S7 (4:10) and Dell XPS 13 (5:50). Only the Toshiba Kirabook (6:47) comes close among 13-inch touch-enabled systems."



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The heat thing is disappointing. Sandy Bridge MBPs throttled like hell, and it made them annoying to use for things like gaming. It's sad Intel has not controlled their thermals.
 

Mr MM

macrumors 65816
Jun 29, 2011
1,116
1
there is absolutely nothing on thermals regarding haswell so far, that "review" for the vaio pro is just a hands on experience with some benchies thrown. in the end there is also nothing on thermals there