Haswell HD 5000 will double graphics performance?

Discussion in 'MacBook Pro' started by Kendo, Nov 11, 2012.

  1. Kendo macrumors 68000

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    Apr 4, 2011
    #1
    I kinda want a 13" Retina MacBook Pro but I read that Haswell will double the graphics performance. That sounds like a giant increase. Would it be fair to say that the HD 5000 will be as powerful as a GT 650M that is in the 15" Retina model? Because I can definitely wait 3 to 6 months for a refresh.
     
  2. Xgm541 macrumors 6502a

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    May 3, 2011
    #2
    Im not sure how big the jump in graphics is between 4000 and 5000 but it will most certainly not be as fast as the 650 in the current retina.
     
  3. filmbuff macrumors 6502a

    filmbuff

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    #3
    They won't be updating anything within 6 months. If you can wait until next July or August then it will probably be worth it to wait for the HD5000. I doubt it will double performance but there should be a noticeable increase.
     
  4. whitedragon101 macrumors 6502a

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    Sep 11, 2008
    #4
    Here is the intel tech demo of haswell graphics showing 2x performance

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxKLGwf35Ow&feature=player_embedded

    (note 2x performance means 2x computational performance not fps. The relationship is not linear. Need some benchmark data for fps figures. Its a significant boost though)
     
  5. ssn637 macrumors 6502

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    #5
    I think the doubling in performance over the current HD4000 only applies to the GT3 high-end iGPU. The GT2 that's used in the MBP lineup will only see an increase of Execution Units to 20. For the MBA lineup we'll only be witnessing a 30% increase in GPU speed.

    If we're lucky the next-generation 13" MBP should provide about the same GPU power increase as we're seeing between the HD 4000 and 3000 from last year. Nothing near what the GeForce GT 650M brings in the 15" model.
     
  6. Starfyre macrumors 68000

    Starfyre

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    Nov 7, 2010
    #6
    so in other words.. dont wait for Haswell? theres got to be other improvements besides graphics that make it worth waiting, so that "hardware can catch up to the Apple retina"
     
  7. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #7
    It will be at least a bit more than that. I'd guess something like July. Haswell may not even be officially launched during the first half. Apple typically gets notebook updates out just a bit after that with desktops trailing. The only thing that could come earlier would be if they decide to refresh the Mac Pro. Even then it would be Sandy Bridge E ahead of consumer Haswell as Ivy isn't likely to trickle out quickly for that segment.
     
  8. pgiguere1 macrumors 68020

    pgiguere1

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    #8
    How do you know which processor will use GT1/GT2/GT3? Will GT3 only be used for desktops?
     
  9. ssn637 macrumors 6502

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    #9
    http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-HD-Graphics-4000.69168.0.html

    The Intel HD Graphics 4000 (GT2) is a processor graphics card that is included in the Ivy Bridge processors of 2012 (3rd generation of core, e.g. Core i7-3770). The base clock can be automatically overclocked using Turbo Boost technology. Depending on the processor model, the base and turbo clock rate may differ greatly resulting in different graphics performance of ULV parts compared to high end quad-core parts.

    Under System Information you'll also note that the MBP uses the GT2 iGPU.
     
  10. Barna Biro macrumors 6502a

    Barna Biro

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    #10
    Tech demos usually showcase well picked out stuff so that an as clear as possible point is made... Real life is different.
     
  11. Rhinoevans, Nov 12, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012

    Rhinoevans macrumors 6502

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    #11
    ...in the current retina and cMBP.


    Also, I was not that impressed with the demo.
     
  12. Mr MM macrumors 65816

    Mr MM

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    Jun 29, 2011
    #12
    you know thats a 50% improvement, there is a redesign on the pipeline, so they are expecting better results a real redesign will only happen on broadwell for the gpu that is
    notebooks always use the faster variant, this time around it wont be different
     
  13. whitedragon101 macrumors 6502a

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    #13
    Thats why I put a note under the video.
     
  14. 4kusnik, Nov 12, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012

    4kusnik macrumors newbie

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    Oct 20, 2012
    #14
    Is it a fact that Retina 13" 2013 will be introduced with HD5000?

    P.S. By the way guys, is it possible 16GB RAM to be an option for Retina 13" mid 2013?
     
  15. NewbieCanada macrumors 68030

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    Oct 9, 2007
    #15
    It's not even a fact that there will be a Retina 13" 2013. Just quite likely.

    But...

    if the world isn't destroyed by mutant beetles from another galaxy and

    if Apple is still in the computer business and

    if Intel does bring out Haswell and

    if the Retina 13" sells well enough to justify a refresh

    then Apple will almost certainly do a processor refresh in their laptop lineup that will include Haswell.
     
  16. pgiguere1 macrumors 68020

    pgiguere1

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    #16
    There's no such thing as an Ivy Bridge GT3 iGPU right now. You either have GT1 (HD 2500) or GT2 (HD4000). You can't just assume that all current GT2-based products will used a GT2 Haswell chip otherwise by that logic no product would use GT3.

    Since there doesn't seem to be any official details available, I would personally guess Haswell i7s will all have GT3, I don't know about a 35W dual-core i5 like there is currently in the 13" MBP. Apple may be interested in a 35W quad-core i7 in the 13" rMBP, especially if it also means better integrated graphics than with a dual-core i5.
     
  17. ssn637 macrumors 6502

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    #17
    Thanks for correcting me and sorry if I was misinformed.

    Then we could indeed see a doubling in performance with the future GPU for the 13" rMBP next year. Still a lot of ifs though...
     
  18. dusk007 macrumors 68040

    dusk007

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    Dec 5, 2009
    #18
    I think it is a save bet that almost all of the dual core higher end chips will come in GT3. Only the i5, i3 will use the lower end models. Also on the quad core chips like what goes into 15" and bigger they probably won't add a GT3 as those can rely on a dedicated GPU anyway and a 650M will stay quite a bit faster.

    The real problem with Haswell is the on die memory. Apparently it will be some upto 128mb and with many variants with less than that or none at all.
    GT3 will have so much compute power than the standard DDR3 system memory will probably not keep up and feed those ressources. Only with the max amount of on die memory can it really deliver.
    So it is not just GT3 but also the onboard DRAM.

    Again I think that quad cores in the big notebooks probably won't have any of that stuff. Yet 13" rMBP, MBP and Air should all come with the best GT3 variant Intel will offer. Maybe the 13" MBP has a default config with a worse chip but all the others shouldn't. The Air just for the power savings the onboard memory will give.
     
  19. Mr MM macrumors 65816

    Mr MM

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    Jun 29, 2011
    #19
    all mobile cpus that arent budget, i.e. pentium are going to come with gt3.

    and the bandwidth concerns you can try to circumvent via higher speed ram and lower CL. Im not saying that dedicated GDDR5 is going to go down the drains, its that those gpus are bandwidth starved, thus you try to go around that with those minor ram tricks, still not saying that they are going to be as fast as a 650m
     

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