Have all the people who think PCs are slow and buggy ever built one?

[jxyama]

AppleMatt:

You should have checked the energy saver option. With 12" PB, you get a Xbench score of ~50 if the CPU is set run at 533 MHz and ~70 at 867 MHz. It's possible that your re-install simply reset the energy saver option to run the CPU at 867 MHz.

 

[yzedf]

Anyone find it funny how stable OS X is supposed to be, yet the most common repair suggestions are "repair permissions" or "zap your PRAM." Both of which are major OS related problems (permissions especially). And what about apps that don't work nicely if the are not installed in the default location (iLife)?

I think the issues are just different from PC to Mac. Mac's have limited compatability issues, simply because there is little to work with. So most of the older driver problems (win98 mostly) aren't found in the Mac world.

Number of apps if obviously a issue for Mac's, especially OS X. 3rd party apps seem to have quality issues for both Mac and Win worlds. Of course OS X and XP deal with it better than the older versions of each OS did.

 

[iJon]

well i built my own pc but still choose built one for many reasons.

1. The compaq i use boots up in about 10-15 seconds from when i press the button, MY built pc boots in about a minute and lets not even get into mac boot times.

2. When compaq or dell builds a computer they put sleep sensons on the computer, so when it goes to sleep the fans and processor shut off like my mac. on my pc everything keeps going, the screen just turns off (this could also be me not doing something right)

3. when you build a pc and it breaks there is no one person to call and its very annoying. If a compaq breaks I can take it in the store and have someone authorized take a look at it.

iJon

 

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by jxyama
AppleMatt:

You should have checked the energy saver option. With 12" PB, you get a Xbench score of ~50 if the CPU is set run at 533 MHz and ~70 at 867 MHz. It's possible that your re-install simply reset the energy saver option to run the CPU at 867 MHz.

No, firstly I already knew about this (and always had it set to full speed) and secondly the re-install would set it to defaults, ie slow speed on battery.

I don't know about those scores, because I have never tested with CPU energy saver on and off.

Although I appreciate the input.

AppleMatt

 

[jxyama]

AppleMatt:

I see... well, i'm glad your score went back up to the range where it should be.

 

[Chimaera]

Originally posted by iJon

1. The compaq i use boots up in about 10-15 seconds from when i press the button, MY built pc boots in about a minute and lets not even get into mac boot times.

2. When compaq or dell builds a computer they put sleep sensons on the computer, so when it goes to sleep the fans and processor shut off like my mac. on my pc everything keeps going, the screen just turns off (this could also be me not doing something right)

3. when you build a pc and it breaks there is no one person to call and its very annoying. If a compaq breaks I can take it in the store and have someone authorized take a look at it.

iJon

1, Download and run Bootvis on your PC - it optimises the bootpath of the machine, mine takes 25secs to go from a cold start to a fully loaded desktop, most of which is due to things like the RAID controller initialising. Instructions here: http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=guide&dId=324&dPage=10

2, This sounds like the power management settings in the bios aren't set right - it should turn all the way off.

3, This is true, and is a very good reason to go OEM - although I feel if you know enough to build a system, you've probably got a good enough level of knowledge to effectively troubleshoot the problem, and its a lot quicker to deal with a manufacturer than the OEM that built the machine in my experience.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by Chimaera
1, Download and run Bootvis on your PC - it optimises the bootpath of the machine, mine takes 25secs to go from a cold start to a fully loaded desktop, most of which is due to things like the RAID controller initialising. Instructions here: http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=guide&dId=324&dPage=10

2, This sounds like the power management settings in the bios aren't set right - it should turn all the way off.

3, This is true, and is a very good reason to go OEM - although I feel if you know enough to build a system, you've probably got a good enough level of knowledge to effectively troubleshoot the problem, and its a lot quicker to deal with a manufacturer than the OEM that built the machine in my experience.

thanks for the tips, ill go play with the bios again some more.

iJon

 

[ZildjianKX]

I personally like that when you build a computer yourself, if a part goes wrong you can ship back the individual part and still keep your PC (if a NIC goes bad, etc, send it back to Netgear)... or how you don't have to worry about voiding your warranty if you need to upgrade it and pay an ungodly amount for a "professional installer"...

I built the PC I'm on now three years ago, and it still runs faster than my friends new Compaq... mostly because of the cheap hard drive drive Compaq uses and their horrible OS installs.

I still want to get away from XP because it does have a degraded performance after awhile... but its a VERY stable OS with its NT kernel.

 

[vniow]

I do most of my browsing here on my home-built PC and I've had very few problems with it that weren't user-related...I don't put a bunch of extra crap on it though, I leave that for my Mac, if I had done all the little haxies and stuff that I've done on my Mac, it most definately would crash much more often.

My parent's Sony on the other hand has a bunch of crap on it and its been up for days without a restart so it depends I guess..

 

[Schiffi]

Personally my best experience with Windows has been with Win2K Pro. XP has been nothing but problematic. Explorer froze up just yesterday burning a CD using that built in feature. But I have basically have had the same computer (though I have upgraded constantly so no original parts are left). This is primarily the reason that I got a laptop instead of a desktop. So I could stop worrying about upgrades and be content with not having "the best". Though right now it is "the best" so I'll wait until WWDC to see if I can take that there is a better computer out there.

 

[mactastic]

I thought we were all griping about how badly pcs are beating apple in the speed department? Now we're complaining how slow they are? Which is it???

Now buggy, thats a different matter, but I have very few problems with XP, its pretty stable - just ugly as sin IMHO. Gotta love that apple GUI. Older operating systems are not so good, but isn't that why we like to cap on poor old OS 9?

 

[The Shadow]

Is this a Windows thread?

XP sucks.

It is CRIMINALLY UGLY...

and I can crash any copy of it on anyone's computer any day of the week. Windows users think it's STABLE because it's a question of relativity. I can crash Win95/98 machines any minute you ask me to!

Win2000 and XP are slighly more stable than earlier versions because they have crappy kernals, but they are nowhere remotely nearly as stable as Jaguar. I don't know whether to laugh, cringe or cry at the suggestion. I bought Jaguar the first week it was out and I have not crashed it once.

I use Win2000, XP and OSX every working day of the week, but thankfully I only use OSX at home on weekends. Most of the people who have commented in this thread should go back to the Windows world where they belong.

If you like Windows and want to defend it, or any other crap in this world, you deserve it. So I'll defend your right to use it. But I just wish you would get out of this Mac forum!

P.S. Some tongue in cheek humour intended.

 

[mcrain]

All I know is that the PCs I've had become obsolete very, very quickly. I've bought high end computers and have had a computer built for me with high end parts, and they worked well, the OS's were typical (98 had troubles, 2000 has been strong, XP is slow but relatively stable).

My biggest problems were paying X thousand dollars and the maching being unable to run things in a very short period of time. I know the interval between speed increases and obsolecense is better, but I have friends running 5+ year old macs (and even much older), and their machines still run great. I can't imagine using a 5 year old PC. I'd go out of my mind.

The other big beef I have with PCs is that if you want to do anything complicated (like authoring a movie, burning a dvd, scanning pictures and/or text, whatever), you run into all sorts of problems. I've installed hardware that should work right out of the box, and have had nothing but problems. "One item is using the same address as another item, you need to do something way over my head."

I switched to the Mac because I liked the way they looked, I liked the *nix base, and I heard a lot of people say they really liked them.

Within 6 months, I've filled up 180 Gig of hard drive space with projects, movies, you name it. Stuff that I can't imagine my old PCs doing, or even a new high end PC. Not because they couldn't, but because it would have been very hard and would have required a lot more thinking.

With my mac, I plug my camera in, edit the video, set up the dvd menus, and click burn. Boom, it's done! That simple. If I want to make a fancy presentation, I open Keynote, and with very little effort, I have a professional looking presentation. I'm doing things with my computer that I didn't think were possible, and I'm doing them easily! That is why I am a Mac nut.

 

[fourthtunz]

Originally posted by tcolling

Multiple generations of stolen software can't be good for a system, either.

Such as the WindowsOS, I agree
daniel

 

[Computer_Phreak]

ive had about 5-6 pcs and 2 different macs, and i can honestly say that for me, buying from a vendor is overly expensive, and also comes with a lot of crappy OEM software. However, this was the first PC I built (that im on now), and it runs very smoothly. it was ridiculuosly cheaper than a mac, or a pre-built pc for that matter.

I would say that XP pro is more stable than OS X. I probably enjoy X more, but XP is probably a tad more stable, as an OS.

My friends, however, have xp (home), and have so much garbage like weatherbug and stuff.. they had literly like 30 items in their taskbar... their system crawled very slowly.. and that is one of the reasons that xp really sux0rs... third party crap, stuff like activex that propts you to install more crap at websites... most people click yes.

Anyway, im sick of people complaining that XP crashes every day and stuff, just like im sick of people saying macs suck when they dont use them.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by Computer_Phreak
ive had about 5-6 pcs and 2 different macs, and i can honestly say that for me, buying from a vendor is overly expensive, and also comes with a lot of crappy OEM software. However, this was the first PC I built (that im on now), and it runs very smoothly. it was ridiculuosly cheaper than a mac, or a pre-built pc for that matter.

I would say that XP pro is more stable than OS X. I probably enjoy X more, but XP is probably a tad more stable, as an OS.

My friends, however, have xp (home), and have so much garbage like weatherbug and stuff.. they had literly like 30 items in their taskbar... their system crawled very slowly.. and that is one of the reasons that xp really sux0rs... third party crap, stuff like activex that propts you to install more crap at websites... most people click yes.

Anyway, im sick of people complaining that XP crashes every day and stuff, just like im sick of people saying macs suck when they dont use them.

well here is my deal with xp and x. i woudl take x over xp anyday. xp is very stable, i will agree with you on that. this is one thing i hav learned. xp does have hardly any crashes, but when it does its a big one, and my computer is wiped out. i do not put any crap on my pc because i hardly use it, just for games. and then i have to get out my discs and reinstall everything, including all my games and OS. with my mac if something goes wrong (which near to none happens) I can get out my boot discs and reinstall just the system folder and leave all my apps alone. this is why i like x better than xp. and the great thing about my mac, all that crap your friends put on their pcs i could put on mac and it would run fine without crashes all day.

iJon

 

[Independence]

Originally posted by aethier
my friend builthis own, its still slow (amd athlon 1700+) and he still gets all the common errors known to peecees

aethier

it gets all the common errors associated to windows 95/98/ME, not PCs. my linux system never has a problem. my windows 2000 pro system never has a software problem either. if you have software problems on windows 2000/XP then that's most likely due to sloppy system management. i'll bet your friend uses kazaa, right?

 

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by Independence
it gets all the common errors associated to windows 95/98/ME, not PCs. my linux system never has a problem. my windows 2000 pro system never has a software problem either. if you have software problems on windows 2000/XP then that's most likely do to sloppy system management. i'll bet your friend uses kazaa, right?

to all the people saying that PCs are good as long as you know what you're doing: well, that's fine for pros who do know what they're doing. But consider how many people don't know what they're doing. The funny thing is that PCs are really more appropriate for those with the expertise not to f*ck them up, but they are most used by the ignorant masses who are prone to "sloppy system management."
I think Macs are better because most users want a computer where they don't have to worry about system management.

 

[edesignuk]

Originally posted by QCassidy352
I think Macs are better because most users want a computer where they don't have to worry about system management.

Yeah, they just have repair permissions every time there is an update don't kid yourself, Macs need attention too, that not all will know about/know how to do.

I do think a well built PC, using good quality components, and sensible use (not installing every piece of shareware crap @ download.com) can provide a fast, stable machine. Windows has come a LONG way since the constant BSODs of W95/W98/WME.

 

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by iJon
well here is my deal with xp and x. i woudl take x over xp anyday. xp is very stable, i will agree with you on that. this is one thing i hav learned. xp does have hardly any crashes, but when it does its a big one, and my computer is wiped out. i do not put any crap on my pc because i hardly use it, just for games. and then i have to get out my discs and reinstall everything, including all my games and OS. with my mac if something goes wrong (which near to none happens) I can get out my boot discs and reinstall just the system folder and leave all my apps alone. this is why i like x better than xp. and the great thing about my mac, all that crap your friends put on their pcs i could put on mac and it would run fine without crashes all day.

iJon

You can actually pop in the XP boot disc, and do an install over itself and it will only replace the system folder (don't do an upgrade!). It will leave all your apps, your desktop, and even the add/remove programs 100% intact... just gotta do some system updates again.

 

[iJon]

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
You can actually pop in the XP boot disc, and do an install over itself and it will only replace the system folder (don't do an upgrade!). It will leave all your apps, your desktop, and even the add/remove programs 100% intact... just gotta do some system updates again.

interesting, i knew you could do it when accessing the cd in windows itself. but i could never figure out how to do it from booting for the cd. explain some more please.

iJon

 

[LethalWolfe]

I've built 3 PCs (two for me and one for my GF) and I've had much less problems w/my home built PCs than I have with OEM's. Of course OEMs run much better if you nuke the HDD when you first get it and do a clean, OS only install so all of that crap it ships w/gets destroyed.

I bought my first Mac last year to be my edit rig (never owned a Mac before) and about 6 months after I got it I started saving up to buy a Mac laptop to replace my homebuilt PC as my day-to-day computer. It's not that my baby is bad to use or anything but I just prefer the Mac environment more. Maybe it's just the change I like, I dunno. But what I do know is my PC days are number. Unless of course I get enough free time and $$$ to afford to build a hot rod gaming rig.


Lethal

 

[ZildjianKX]

Originally posted by iJon
interesting, i knew you could do it when accessing the cd in windows itself. but i could never figure out how to do it from booting for the cd. explain some more please.

iJon

Just pop in the CD, do a install to the same windows directory as before (it will detect your previous installation)... then let it finish... Everything will be 100% there.

 

[RandomDeadHead]

Some people buy cars, and some people build them.

Some people build fast, reliable, stable PC's.

But most people just go out and buy the cheap crap that they sell in stores, these are the ones that have problems.

When a person buys a Mac, they are pretty much guaranted that they will not have the problems that MOST people have with store bought pc's.




BTW, If a person builds a car and it breaks, the person is probably knowledgeable enough to diagnose and fix the problem theirselves. But I would never try to fix an electrical problem with my Kia by my self,
Would you?

 

[bobindashadows]

My friend built his own PC a little while ago - I dont' know the exact specs, but I believe its an Athlon 1700, it's got a GeForce 3, 512MB DDR Ram (333 I think), SB Live!, a network card, and I think that's it. Oh yeah, he has a 40x CD-ROM and a 32x CD-RW. Unfortunately, he was too cheap to get a good one, and so he has to burn audio CDs at 4x, fearing buffer underruns *roll*. Data CDs can burn at 12x without making a coaster. It cost him about 700 bucks.

He was beyond miserable getting it stable. It took him 3 months to get most of it working - excluding the network card, which took 6 months.

His computer wouldn't start up, blurting random messages about "IRQ OVERLOAD"s and General Protection Faults. Every once in a while, it would just turn off and he'd have to wait 5 minutes before he could start it up. The computer wasn't even running hot - he has 5 fans installed.

It was a month and a half before he finally had to get a specialist to tell him that he couldn't have onboard sound enabled and his sound card enabled. It's too bad windows didn't just say that! For those interested, IRQ stands for Interrupt Request (I think). His network card didn't work, nor did a second one he had to get. The second one worked miraculously one evening six months after assembling the computer.

It's fast, though *roll* I guess hell is worth going through to make a fast PC. He made it for games. However, a number of games just don't run on it, for no reason, like Giants: Citizen Kabuto (good game!) and Ghost Recon (good game!).