Haven't worn mine in weeks...

[r0k]

I wore my Garmin to bed last night. I forgot to take it off. It's so nice to have a device that has more than 1 day battery life. RHR in the high 40s. I also expect to be able to simply continue to wear it for tonight's 7 mile easy run without charging it.

I'm wearing mine now, but I usually wear my Fenix 3 these days. I'm tempted to get a smaller Garmin with continuous HR monitoring.

The new Apple Watch can have GPS etc but unless Apple does something to Health, the data is useless. As a minimum you need to be able to export activity data to strava and also ideally training peaks, unless it does this it will never be a device for the more serious Athlete.

I agree the problem is really Apple's approach to Health. I can get useful data exported runkeeper, runmeter, mapmyrun (running apps) and of course Garmin but Health data export has proven to be a useless mess. I would never consider an AW with GPS unless I knew it supported existing export file formats.

The burden is on Apple to enhance Activity push a workout to the apps like Stava, TP, MMF, etc. Some of the data these need do not live in Health. The model is that the app that captures the workout pushes a standard file out to the other tool (Strava).

I would like to be able to upload my running data to Strava, Mapmyrun, Training Peaks etc without any effort on my part doing file format, unit or any other conversions. I can't imagine Apple supporting this any time soon.

Its quite simple. In my eyes you fell in love with running and that is why you are in need of a deficated runners watch. Apple Watch ist far more than just a runners watch but lacks some features you want to have for running . Whats your point again?

BTW your restring Heart rate is the average of your Heart Rate you have while at rest. A Single Peak to the bottom doesn't make this count your resting heart rate. 35 would be a medical condition, not a heart rate

Deficated? Nice wording.

I was running before I got AW and I used it mainly for starting and stopping runs. When my AW battery died during the marathon last October, I still lost all the data despite the fact the running app on my iPhone was really taking the data but my AW lost its mind before I could use it to pause and save the run.

To be useful for exercise such as running, the AW doesn't require GPS but it does require the ability to lock the screen so that the watch face displays meaningful workout data (splits/paces/elapsed time/distances) at all times without need for user interaction.

I have access to medical professionals to help me interpret this data and I'm satisfied that I'm not dealing with a medical condition. Run a few marathons and you too can enjoy a lower resting heart rate.

 

[PatrickNSF]

I'm similar to exxxviii in that I wear either an Apple Watch and an Garmin 735XT, depending on what I'm doing. I train for two marathons a year – and typically run a half every month – so a Garmin is a necessity. I wouldn't race solely relying on an AW.

That being said, watchOS 3 has me interested again in my AW and I've been wearing it much more this summer. If I'm traveling and will primarily be outside, I just use the Garmin 24/7, but at home and for the workday, I find the AW useful. It helps that I traded down to the Sport version during one of the BestBuy sales – since I don't have much invested in the AW anymore, I don't feel compelled to wear it. And I don't feel the need to see it to recoup some of my investment while I wait for improvements.

Ideally, I'd like better integration with Garmin and the Heath app. Under the iOS 10 and watchOS 3 betas, my daily runs and rides with Garmin show up in the Apple Activity app, but I'm not given any Move credit for those. It looks like I'm given Exercise credit, though. If it's ever working in such a way that my Garmin activities are fully integrated into the Activity app (and there's a way to see that data via the web), I'd be perfectly content wearing the Garmin for intentional exercise and the AW the rest of the day.

 

[exxxviii]

Ideally, I'd like better integration with Garmin and the Heath app. Under the iOS 10 and watchOS 3 betas, my daily runs and rides with Garmin show up in the Apple Activity app, but I'm not given any Move credit for those. It looks like I'm given Exercise credit, though. If it's ever working in such a way that my Garmin activities are fully integrated into the Activity app (and there's a way to see that data via the web), I'd be perfectly content wearing the Garmin for intentional exercise and the AW the rest of the day.

Does your Garmin activity move all the way down to the Watch on iOS10/wOS3? Or, does it just stop at the Activity app on the phone?

This is the use case that I hope Apple builds to-- but cross-platform:

This weekend, I did a bike ride with my Garmin Edge 520 computer. When I ended the ride, the data were immediately available on both the mobile app on my phone and the web. But, what blew my mind is that as soon as I put my 735XT watch back on, it knew about the ride and had it in the My Day widget (the equivalent of the Activity rings on the AW). This is exemplary bi-directional data movement across all devices.

In the AW space, the watch only knows about an activity that occurred on the watch. And, information only travels up, not down. It sucks, to be blunt, and is the worst in the activity tracker market. Also, Apple has ignored the web for activity and fitness information presentation, and that is also worst in market. There are some visualizations that really are not possible on the tiny screen of a mobile app.

I love my AW, but I just had a taste of awesome activity tracking, and it is hard to give it up.

 

[r0k]

Does your Garmin activity move all the way down to the Watch on iOS10/wOS3? Or, does it just stop at the Activity app on the phone?

This is the use case that I hope Apple builds to-- but cross-platform:

This weekend, I did a bike ride with my Garmin Edge 520 computer. When I ended the ride, the data were immediately available on both the mobile app on my phone and the web. But, what blew my mind is that as soon as I put my 735XT watch back on, it knew about the ride and had it in the My Day widget (the equivalent of the Activity rings on the AW). This is exemplary bi-directional data movement across all devices.

In the AW space, the watch only knows about an activity that occurred on the watch. And, information only travels up, not down. It sucks, to be blunt, and is the worst in the activity tracker market. Also, Apple has ignored the web for activity and fitness information presentation, and that is also worst in market. There are some visualizations that really are not possible on the tiny screen of a mobile app.

I love my AW, but I just had a taste of awesome activity tracking, and it is hard to give it up.

At this point I would say Apple treats iCloud as it were a suitable substitute for the web. Gone are the days of dot mac or even mobile me when an Apple user could easily publish stuff that could be seen in any web browser without logging in. Now the walls around Apple's garden are getting taller and taller. Sure I can publish photos on iCloud but I have to work to find a link that doesn't require all the recipients to have an iCloud account or own an iThing just to look at my photos! I'd rather use Flickr, Google Photos or even the dreaded Facebook Moments than deal with trying to share my photos using iCloud.

I'm sure the same will be true for health data. Apple will assume everyone that wants to use Apple gear will blindly walk on board the good ship Apple and blithely ignore losing connections to all their Strava, Garmin Connect, MapMyRun and other online communities. NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Apple ain't a gym and it ain't gonna be one any time soon, 100,000 square foot employee Cupertino fitness facility notwithstanding. Just get the heck out of my way and let me export and share my data in any way I see fit with whom I see fit and I'll consider using AW again for fitness or even routine activity tracking. Not until.

 

[PatrickNSF]

Does your Garmin activity move all the way down to the Watch on iOS10/wOS3? Or, does it just stop at the Activity app on the phone?

It goes all the way down to the AW. Strangely, the Garmin activity shows up with 0 Active Calories, which may have something to do with it not giving me Move credit. Though I've tried adding the activity using RunGap and it still ignores the Move Credit even though the activity shows Active Calories.

So it seems like Apple's making progress, but it's not quite there. Just like Garmin's notifications are decent, but not quite there for me either (i.e., I'd like a quick reply option for messages, and reminders). Frankly, had Garmin come out with a smaller, lighter fenix HR I'd probably be fine with that 24/7 and see what happens with watchOS4 But as it is, I'll probably just keep switching back and forth depending on training, travel and my general mood.

 

[Thai]

I wore my Garmin to bed last night. I forgot to take it off. It's so nice to have a device that has more than 1 day battery life. RHR in the high 40s. I also expect to be able to simply continue to wear it for tonight's 7 mile easy run without charging it.

To be useful for exercise such as running, the AW doesn't require GPS but it does require the ability to lock the screen so that the watch face displays meaningful workout data (splits/paces/elapsed time/distances) at all times without need for user interaction.

I don't train like you. I exercise for about 30-45 min a day...mainly to keep from getting fat. I charge my Watch every evening at dinner and then wear to bed so that i can keep track of my HR.

FYI, WatchOS3 displays all data on ONE screen. The other swipe-able screen is to PAUSE, START, or END.

 

[exxxviii]

It goes all the way down to the AW. Strangely, the Garmin activity shows up with 0 Active Calories, which may have something to do with it not giving me Move credit. Though I've tried adding the activity using RunGap and it still ignores the Move Credit even though the activity shows Active Calories.

So it seems like Apple's making progress, but it's not quite there. Just like Garmin's notifications are decent, but not quite there for me either (i.e., I'd like a quick reply option for messages, and reminders). Frankly, had Garmin come out with a smaller, lighter fenix HR I'd probably be fine with that 24/7 and see what happens with watchOS4 But as it is, I'll probably just keep switching back and forth depending on training, travel and my general mood.

This is super encouraging. Maybe they will get the vertical and horizontal integration working by the release. My new low bar expectation is that we will get ntelligent resting HR in the next OS. I normally wear my watch except for sleeping, so that should be enough to capture, analyze, and report resting HR. My dream is that I would love to see a graphical view of recent HR on the watch, like the Garmin does.

 

[r0k]

This is super encouraging. Maybe they will get the vertical and horizontal integration working by the release. My new low bar expectation is that we will get ntelligent resting HR in the next OS. I normally wear my watch except for sleeping, so that should be enough to capture, analyze, and report resting HR. My dream is that I would love to see a graphical view of recent HR on the watch, like the Garmin does.

This is a feature I missed as well. I love seeing my HR graph after a workout. Apple really needs to offer a way to export health data without having to resort to a third party app. When I'm viewing a workout in Garmin's app after a workout, I can see a direct correlation between effort such as hills or speed intervals and heart rate. This is very useful information for me. This same data makes it to Garmin's Garmin Connect web portal and I can make it visible to friends if I choose to. Lastly, I can also export data to cvs format and then use graphing features of a spreadsheet program to overlay heart rates with paces, hills, cadence, etc.

I don't train like you. I exercise for about 30-45 min a day...mainly to keep from getting fat. I charge my Watch every evening at dinner and then wear to bed so that i can keep track of my HR.

FYI, WatchOS3 displays all data on ONE screen. The other swipe-able screen is to PAUSE, START, or END.

Thanks, this is encouraging. However no matter how useful the workout app becomes, I will still need to be able to post process and analyze my data after the workout as I referred to above. As far as I know, Apple still hasn't made provisions for this capability. Another thing Apple could do is offer the ability for third party fitness apps to lock the watch screen. For my needs, only being able to lock the AW screen in Apple's workout app removes AW from possible consideration as a workout device.

 

[Thai]

Thanks, this is encouraging. However no matter how useful the workout app becomes, I will still need to be able to post process and analyze my data after the workout as I referred to above. As far as I know, Apple still hasn't made provisions for this capability. Another thing Apple could do is offer the ability for third party fitness apps to lock the watch screen. For my needs, only being able to lock the AW screen in Apple's workout app removes AW from possible consideration as a workout device.

I wonder if Apple does not allow export for security/privacy reasons? They are planning to go all in into the health industry...and health industry is all about protecting one's privacy. (This is also why Apple Watch does not leak any data and location info, which is the case with other smartwatches and fitness devices, including Garmin, Fitbit, etc.)

 

[PatrickNSF]

Following-up on the Garmin/Activity integration, I wore my AW during last night's Assault AirBike session, and also tracked with my Garmin 735XT and heart rate strap. The Garmin workout was fed into the Activity app under the latest iOS beta, and showed up in the AW also running the latest watchOS beta. You can also see the Garmin workout reflected in the Move and Exercise charts (although in the past I've noted that I wasn't getting credit for Move activity when I've worn the Garmin without the AW). That's good progress.

Unfortunately, the Activity app still shows 0 Active Calories for the Garmin workout. I'm pretty sure this is a Garmin bug because when I import the activity using RunGap it display Active Calories in the workout (though it still doesn't credit these for the Move ring).

I think we're getting close to being able to workout using a Garmin, and having that activity reflected in the Activity apps on the phone and AW. But it's still not there yet.

 

[Thai]

Following-up on the Garmin/Activity integration, I wore my AW during last night's Assault AirBike session, and also tracked with my Garmin 735XT and heart rate strap. The Garmin workout was fed into the Activity app under the latest iOS beta, and showed up in the AW also running the latest watchOS beta. You can also see the Garmin workout reflected in the Move and Exercise charts (although in the past I've noted that I wasn't getting credit for Move activity when I've worn the Garmin without the AW). That's good progress.

How does the Heart Rate compare b/w Garmin HR strap and AW's heart rate sensor?

 

[exxxviii]

I have given up on the AW as a fitness device. A few years ago, I was down on Garmin and hoping that the rumored AW could be a replacement. However, lack of GPS and no integration with industry fitness tools pretty much takes the AW off the table for a few more years.

Now I am just hoping that Apple enhance the watch OS, mobile Activity app, and build a web interface to meet the minimums for activity tracking. Otherwise, I will likely buy a good activity tracker like a vivosmart HR. (I am not a fan of the FB trackers, unless they can add HR to the Alta.)
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How does the Heart Rate compare b/w Garmin HR strap and AW's heart rate sensor?

In my experience, the AW HR is dead accurate with all other HR devices (chest strap, Scosche Rhythm+ optical HRM, and 735XT wrist HR). I have not seen the problems other have had with erratic readings or drops. Though, I need to tighten the AW band one notch while running or cycling to get good HR. That is also the same with the 735XT-- if I forget to tighten its band one notch, I get low HR readings.

 

[Thai]

In my experience, the AW HR is dead accurate with all other HR devices (chest strap, Scosche Rhythm+ optical HRM, and 735XT wrist HR). I have not seen the problems other have had with erratic readings or drops. Though, I need to tighten the AW band one notch while running or cycling to get good HR. That is also the same with the 735XT-- if I forget to tighten its band one notch, I get low HR readings.

It has been with me as well. My brother recently did treadmill stress test and AW's heart rate was identical to medical equipment.

 

[gorkt]

Interesting write up. I run smaller distances, just 5K and 10K and the Apple watch has been hit or miss. What really frustrates me is that I use Runkeeper, and it really only works about 65% of the time on the AW. When it works, it works really well, but it will sometimes just crash during the run and provide no visual data during the run unless I want to pull out my phone. Luckily the phone still trackes everything so it isn't catastrophic data loss. It tends to happen after the Runkeeper app updates. I end up having to uninstall the app from my phone and then reinstall it to get it to work again, which is really annoying. I REALLY don't want to get a dedicated running watch, so I keep hoping that it gets fixed with WatchOS3. It took a bit of fiddling but I have everything properly synced up between MyFitnesspal, Runkeeper and the AW using Health as an intermediate.

 

[exxxviii]

What really frustrates me is that I use Runkeeper, and it really only works about 65% of the time on the AW. When it works, it works really well, but it will sometimes just crash during the run and provide no visual data during the run unless I want to pull out my phone. Luckily the phone still trackes everything so it isn't catastrophic data loss. It tends to happen after the Runkeeper app updates. I end up having to uninstall the app from my phone and then reinstall it to get it to work again, which is really annoying.

This was my exact same experience with RK. It was so bad, that I just totally quit using RK at all. Pre-AW, I used to run with RK on my phone for long runs, alongside my Garmin. I liked RK, because it had the social integration and some other features. But, after AW, it made me hate RK, so I just totally abandoned it.

 

[PatrickNSF]

How does the Heart Rate compare b/w Garmin HR strap and AW's heart rate sensor?

It seems close enough for my purposes for the times I've run (or cycled) with it. I never train with the AW, and with the Garmin I generally train by pace. I like being able to see how much time I've spent in each zone on Garmin Connect. I'm not sure there's a way to do that with the AW.

In line with one of the previous comments, I'm not interested in using the AW for any serious running or cycling. I find the Garmin so much better in terms of visibility, design and features for running and cycling that it's not really a close call. But I like the AW for many other things, so the more they're able to work together the better.

 

[r0k]

I wonder if Apple does not allow export for security/privacy reasons? They are planning to go all in into the health industry...and health industry is all about protecting one's privacy. (This is also why Apple Watch does not leak any data and location info, which is the case with other smartwatches and fitness devices, including Garmin, Fitbit, etc.)

We are talking about my ability to see my own data on my own device. HIPAA is not relevant here. If Garmin can show me my heart data as a graph overlaid on hills, pace and cadence, IMHO to be competitive Apple must do the same. If Garmin can allow me to export my data as a csv file to analyze as I wish, IMHO to be competitive Apple must do the same.

There is a privacy setting in Garmin Connect to allow others to see my GPS data or not. I tend to keep mine open so I can publish my favorite routes. Keeping my routes public also allows my data to be aggregated to third party sites such as Mapmyrun, Strava or whatever. This is where Apple falls on their face. By presuming to be the know all, be all, end all, Apple is placing themselves in the irrelevant fringe of the fitness device market. Health data was generated by things I did with my body and if I don't have rights to it, nobody does. Baaaad Apple.

 

[Thai]

We are talking about my ability to see my own data on my own device. HIPAA is not relevant here. If Garmin can show me my heart data as a graph overlaid on hills, pace and cadence, IMHO to be competitive Apple must do the same. If Garmin can allow me to export my data as a csv file to analyze as I wish, IMHO to be competitive Apple must do the same.

There is a privacy setting in Garmin Connect to allow others to see my GPS data or not. I tend to keep mine open so I can publish my favorite routes. Keeping my routes public also allows my data to be aggregated to third party sites such as Mapmyrun, Strava or whatever. This is where Apple falls on their face. By presuming to be the know all, be all, end all, Apple is placing themselves in the irrelevant fringe of the fitness device market. Health data was generated by things I did with my body and if I don't have rights to it, nobody does. Baaaad Apple.

See: http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2498807,00.asp

Garmin Connect is not good regarding encryption.

IF i had to guess, then you will NEVER see Apple allowing health related data to be able to be exported anywhere. 100% guess tho.

And as Apple goes deeper into health, then yeah HIPAA will apply.

 

[Thai]

And IF a 3rd party does not have proper security measures (e.g. encryption), then forget about Apple exporting its customer's health data to that site/app!

 

[exxxviii]

I think the ultimate problem is that Apple wants Health to be the one Ring to Rule them All. But, the world does not work that way. Instead, the world is looking for point solutions that do their purposesvery well (collect and visualize activity data, collect and visualize fitness data, collect and aggregate health data, etc.). Each has its own use cases, level of security, and integration flexibility. Personally, I think Health is a steaming turd on many levels. Putting Health as a barrier to using my activity and fitness data is foolish and poor architecture. The world is heading toward blockchain from a health data point of view, but Apple Health is trapped in a basic 90s era architecture.

 

[Thai]

I think the ultimate problem is that Apple wants Health to be the one Ring to Rule them All. But, the world does not work that way. Instead, the world is looking for point solutions that do their purposesvery well (collect and visualize activity data, collect and visualize fitness data, collect and aggregate health data, etc.). Each has its own use cases, level of security, and integration flexibility. Personally, I think Health is a steaming turd on many levels. Putting Health as a barrier to using my activity and fitness data is foolish and poor architecture. The world is heading toward blockchain from a health data point of view, but Apple Health is trapped in a basic 90s era architecture.

That may be the case, but i have zero interest in sharing my health/fitness data with any 3rd party...and especially if that 3rd party has zero interest in protecting what they receive. Look at the article above...Garmin Connect, Fitbit, etc. all leak data and/or have minimal (or zero) security measures. Security and privacy are very much 2016, not 1990's era IMO...especially in health-related things.

And if Apple goes into FDA arena with their health, then HIPAA will rule the day.

 

[exxxviii]

That may be the case, but i have zero interest in sharing my health/fitness data with any 3rd party...and especially if that 3rd party has zero interest in protecting what they receive. Look at the article above...Garmin Connect, Fitbit, etc. all leak data and/or have minimal (or zero) security measures. Security and privacy are very much 2016, not 1990's era IMO...especially in health-related things.

And if Apple goes into FDA arena with their health, then HIPAA will rule the day.

I saw the article above when it was originally published. I would not throw out the baby with the bath water. I have no concerns at all about how Garmin transmits the data it captures. Same with Fitbit. The BT tracking exploit is not unique to a fitness tracker-- it is pretty much open for all BT devices connected to a phone. The fitness data are of relatively low risk as compared to health data with PII and sensitive information. The problem with Health is that it puts consumers at high risk that we will will lose our Health data (Health is only backed up at the OS-level, so if you have a problem with the phone or backup and cannot restore the entire phone, you lose your data) or you cannot share your data with other entities unless they have a local, iPhone app as opposed to an open industry interface. An open blockchain architecture is better for consumers and open for integration while also maintaining security and control.

I had a problem with my phone last year, and Apple told me I had to wipe the phone and set it up as a new device. That fixed the problem. But at the same time, it forever wiped my Health data from existence. That is unacceptable.

 

[sean000]

The news about Apple acquiring Gliimpse puts an interesting spin on this. Soon they will offer a service for sharing data with healthcare professionals and (anonymously) to online communities for crowd-sourced data. While this has huge potential it won't replace the ability to export your data to CSV, and this has nothing to do with sharing data between apps. It just makes me think that perhaps the Health app is a temporary solution for something bigger and cloud based?

Regardless of the role that the Health app and Gliimpse will play in the future, I hope Apple is thinking about what someone will do when they have years of health data and decide to leave Apple for another platform. There is a way (for now) to export Health data to CSV with a third party tool, but what will Apple do for the average user who isn't going to know about that? HIPAA compliance isn't just about privacy... it is also about portability. It seems like Apple will be legally obligated to provide an easy way for consumers to take their health data with them if they decide to leave or share it through other methods.

Sean

 

[exxxviii]

It just makes me think that perhaps the Health app is a temporary solution for something bigger and cloud based... it is also about portability.

Haha... great point. Although everyone hones in on the security aspects of HIPAA, the name stands for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. One of Health's biggest challenges in the context of these recent posts is that it sucks at the Portability. If Gliimpse gives Apple Health a distributed ledger of our data, that would solve a crapton of problems.

 

[Thai]

I saw the article above when it was originally published. I would not throw out the baby with the bath water. I have no concerns at all about how Garmin transmits the data it captures. Same with Fitbit. The BT tracking exploit is not unique to a fitness tracker-- it is pretty much open for all BT devices connected to a phone. The fitness data are of relatively low risk as compared to health data with PII and sensitive information. The problem with Health is that it puts consumers at high risk that we will will lose our Health data (Health is only backed up at the OS-level, so if you have a problem with the phone or backup and cannot restore the entire phone, you lose your data) or you cannot share your data with other entities unless they have a local, iPhone app as opposed to an open industry interface. An open blockchain architecture is better for consumers and open for integration while also maintaining security and control.

I had a problem with my phone last year, and Apple told me I had to wipe the phone and set it up as a new device. That fixed the problem. But at the same time, it forever wiped my Health data from existence. That is unacceptable.

Ok, I understand. Have you read this: http://www.idownloadblog.com/2015/0...activity-and-health-app-data-to-a-new-iphone/

As for open architecture, I can see that Android has done well in terms security. . Health data has never been open...and never will be. If your doctor's office computer system crashes, then it is likely that your health data is gone too. Now, if your doctor uses a national system (Epic, Cerner), then maybe your data is saved. But my wife is using one (Cerner), i have my doubts. LOL

In theory, Communism works great too...but in practice? Same with HIPAA...portable?!! LOL