HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray Battle Over? Warner Switches to Blu-Ray

[gkarris]

Toshiba is pulling the plug on HD-DVD Life Support system.

Offical news should be coming in the next week.

Here's an article:

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Toshiba/Report:_Toshiba_to_Drop_HD_DVD/1468

Report: Toshiba to Drop HD DVD
Thu Feb 14, 2008 at 08:29 PM ET


The Hollywood Reporter is citing "reliable industry sources" as saying that Toshiba is on the verge of officially dropping its HD DVD format.

Though Toshiba denies that any such decision has been made, the just-published article in The Reporter points to "substantial" losses from each HD DVD player sold and a series of high-profile defections as key motivators for the company, with one unnamed source close to the HD DVD camp telling the Reporter that "an announcement is coming soon... it could be a matter of weeks."

Asked to respond to the report, Toshiba VP Jodi Sally reiterated her company's support of the HD DVD format. "Based on its technological advancements, we continue to believe HD DVD is the best format for consumers, given the value and consistent quality inherent in our player offerings," said Sally.

The exec went on to address "the market developments in the past month," saying only that "Toshiba will continue to study the market impact and the value proposition for consumers, particularly in light of our recent price reductions on all HD DVD players."

Long Live Blu!

BAD thing. Competition is good.

When Blu-ray is the only one, look for:

1. Raise in or no price drops of Blu-ray discs.
2. The contraint token turned on (HD DVD never turned it on), DVD quality for anyone NOT using HDMI (that's my home theater - on component. Why would I buy the Blu-ray then?).
3. Blu-ray discs implementing Region Encoding on all new releases (they don't region encode almost all discs right now since HD DVD is regionless).
4. Crap encoding - no HD DVD to compete against. Fox has already announced that a bunch of new releases will use the older MPEG-2 encoding. Why bother when you don't have another format to compete with?

It's a mixed bag...

 

[MacNut]

Im still not convinced that one format is better then the other. All I know is that Sony marketed it better and threw more money at the studios to get them to join up. It should of been a consumer choice to decide a winner not big business tactics. I used to love Sony but in the past few years they have gotten to sleazy. I was kinda hoping they would of been brought down a few pegs.

 

[Blogger]

BAD thing. Competition is good.

When Blu-ray is the only one, look for:

1. Raise in or no price drops of Blu-ray discs.
2. The contraint token turned on (HD DVD never turned it on), DVD quality for anyone NOT using HDMI (that's my home theater - on component. Why would I buy the Blu-ray then?).
3. Blu-ray discs implementing Region Encoding on all new releases (they don't region encode almost all discs right now since HD DVD is regionless).
4. Crap encoding - no HD DVD to compete against. Fox has already announced that a bunch of new releases will use the older MPEG-2 encoding. Why bother when you don't have another format to compete with?

It's a mixed bag...

In this case I think competition was a bad thing. It was slowing adoption rates due to consumer uncertainty and confusion. Now that there is one standard for HD I think we'll see a lot more people buying in. Remember Sony is not BD, there are a lot of BD manufacturers, unlike HD DVD which pretty much only had Toshiba, and they will be competing against each other. As far as disk prices goes, BD is now only competing with DVD, and if the Studios want people to adopt HD, they won't be able to price the disks at an astronomic level compared to DVDs.

Region codes have never been an issue for me.

There was talk on another forum of HD encodings being poor because they only did one encoding for both formats, and the space-limited HD DVD dictated that. So we might see an improvement there with luck.

 

[Blogger]

Im still not convinced that one format is better then the other. All I know is that Sony marketed it better and threw more money at the studios to get them to join up. It should of been a consumer choice to decide a winner not big business tactics. I used to love Sony but in the past few years they have gotten to sleazy. I was kinda hoping they would of been brought down a few pegs.

Actually it was consumer choice. They bought more BD players and disks, which is why Warner switched, and why Blockbuster, Netflix, Best Buy, Walmart etc, etc. switched.

 

[MacNut]

Actually it was consumer choice. They bought more BD players and disks, which is why Warner switched, and why Blockbuster, Netflix, Best Buy, Walmart etc, etc. switched.

Is the PS3 factored into those numbers or is it stand alone players.

 

[Shua]

BAD thing. Competition is good.

Not when it holds back both formats. Since a lot of people have been waiting for the war to end before jumping in. Also it means that all of the titles will be on one format. Screw having to spend $1000.00 to get a dual player that doesn't do either format justice.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1627196120080216
This is better as it comes from Toshiba themselves.

1. Raise in or no price drops of Blu-ray discs.

Come on, be reasonable. Once DVD became the ONLY format for movies many moons again did the price go up? No. Its fear mongering like this that makes no sense.

2. The contraint token turned on (HD DVD never turned it on), DVD quality for anyone NOT using HDMI (that's my home theater - on component. Why would I buy the Blu-ray then?).

Good question. Blu-Ray has the ability to Push more Data thru the pipes so you can get a better picture and audio. They let the companies releasing the movies decide what they want to do with them. Why did people move from VHS to DVD? If you won't get any benefit out of Blu-Ray movies then Rent a movie from iTunes or your local video store, etc... If you are happy with your Black & White TV then be happy with it.

3. Blu-ray discs implementing Region Encoding on all new releases (they don't region encode almost all discs right now since HD DVD is regionless).

Funny it hasn't been an issue. It has been optional since the begging
http://bluray.liesinc.net/ Take a look and you will see about half the Discs have no encoding what so ever. Why would this change now? Yes Blu-Ray has three (YES three whole) Region codes and yes HD-DVD had zero. DVD had seven. So less is better. Are you also telling me that you refused to buy DVDs as you couldn't play them anywhere you want? *scoff*

4. Crap encoding - no HD DVD to compete against. Fox has already announced that a bunch of new releases will use the older MPEG-2 encoding. Why bother when you don't have another format to compete with?

Its easy. Look at 5th Element. It sucked the first time around. People had issues and they re-released a remastered version of it that was truely Hi-Def! Everything is optional. The Customers will decide. But the problem with your logic here is one major thing you seem to miss. DVDs are encoded at a smaller size then Blu-Ray. You can use the same encoding on anything you want. Some movies are shot and transfered better in MPEG-2. MPEG-2 is a compression not the Quality of the source before and after.

DVDs are 720x480 = 345,600 pixels Maximum
Blu-Ray Movies are 1920x1200 = 2,304,000 Pixels Maximum

That means that Blu-Ray movies can store 6.66x more data then a DVD for the same exact picture. More Pixels means more information, its that simple.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Common_Video_Resolutions_2.svg

I will say if you are running anyhting less then a 40" TV you might not notice a huge difference I will give you that, but as your screen size grows you can see more details in the movies.

 

[zioxide]

Is the PS3 factored into those numbers or is it stand alone players.

PS3 and the 360 HD-DVD addon were both factored in iirc.

 

[Shua]

Is the PS3 factored into those numbers or is it stand alone players.

It depends on who's numbers you are talking about. Some do not include them as they are considered a "Gaming" system that happens to play Blu-Ray movies. In fact I bought a PS3 for playing Blu-Ray movies as it is the higest rated sub $500.00 Blu-Ray Player that does almost as a good of job of up-scalling Standard DVDs and other media formats to Hi-Def as the $900.00 stand-alone players. Plus when my nephew comes over he can always play games when we aren't watching movies.

 

[Blogger]

DVDs are 720x480 = 345,600 pixels Maximum
Blu-Ray Movies are 1920x1200 = 2,304,000 Pixels Maximum

I think that's 1920x1080 = 2,073600 pixels.

 

[RaceTripper]

...

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1627196120080216
This is better as it comes from Toshiba themselves.
....

It does not come from Toshiba. It's just another one of those "Toshiba is expected to..." reports we've been seeing ad nauseum the past couple days. Toshiba has not yet made an announcement.

 

[Shua]

I think that's 1920x1080 = 2,073600 pixels.

What can I say I math well. But my math is far better as its 6.66 x the data since everybody seems to think Blu-Ray is the devil.

 

[Shua]

It does not come from Toshiba. It's just another one of those "Toshiba is expected to..." reports we've been seeing ad nauseum the past couple days. Toshiba has not yet made an announcement.

Yes you are correct, I am mistaken on the source. It is actully a Radio station out of Japan not Toshiba's JP parent company.

 

[zap2]

I will take 1080p (Blu Ray) over 720p (Apple TV) any day. What happens when you upgrade to a new version of the Apple TV hardware down the road? What happens if the hard drive dies in it?

What happen if your disk is brake? If the harddrive failed, I'ld have back ups, and I'd have it fixed And when I upgrade to the next ATV, I'll just resync all my shows...

 

[zap2]

PS3 and the 360 HD-DVD addon were both factored in iirc.

flawed logic...if people we're buying HD DVD add for 360, they were playing HD DVD disk..if you buy a PS3, we don't know what that will be used for.


But either way, if doesn't matter. Blue Ray has won...now the question is how good will digital downloads do vs physical media...

 

[Shua]

http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSL1637974620080216

TOKYO (Reuters) - Toshiba Corp (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) is planning to give up on its HD DVD format for high-definition video, conceding defeat to the competing Blu-Ray technology backed by Sony Corp (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research), a company source said on Saturday.

Japanese public broadcaster NHK had earlier reported that Toshiba would suffer losses in the tens of billions of yen (hundreds of millions of dollars) as it scrapped production of HD DVD players and recorders and took other steps to exit the business.

The company source told Reuters that Toshiba was in the final stages of planning to exit the HD DVD business and that an official decision would be made soon.

(Reporting by Mayumi Negishi, Kentaro Hamada and Nathan Layne, editing by Mike Peacock)

That bird is done.

 

[Shua]

...now the question is how good will digital downloads do vs physical media...

Easy. iTunes movie rental stood up quite well to Blu-Ray but Blu-Ray clearly had the advantage (720p vs 1080p, not a big shock that 1080p looked better).

I enjoy watching movies from time to time even ones I have seen 20+ times. The problem is that four HD movie downloads is $20.00. on the fifth watch you could have bought the Blu-Ray Version of the movie. If Apple did a subscription service more like NetFlix it would have been an easy slam dunk for me to drop NetFlix and do iTunes. Its all a mater of how often you want to watch a movie. Some people will watch a movie once and never go back again. Some others enjoy watching the same movie over and over. Its all personal preference.

 

[SactoGuy18]

4. Crap encoding - no HD DVD to compete against. Fox has already announced that a bunch of new releases will use the older MPEG-2 encoding. Why bother when you don't have another format to compete with?

Given the fact that higher-end desktop computing power is so cheap nowadays (you can get a well-loaded quad-core CPU machine for under US$4,000!), computer workstations now have the "oomph" needed to encode a movie in VC-1 or AVC format for the Blu-ray disc format fairly easily. Besides, I expect most new Blu-ray releases will be encoded in VC-1 or AVC, mostly because it saves on disc space and allows for more "extras" on a single disc.

 

[gkarris]

Given the fact that higher-end desktop computing power is so cheap nowadays (you can get a well-loaded quad-core CPU machine for under US$4,000!), computer workstations now have the "oomph" needed to encode a movie in VC-1 or AVC format for the Blu-ray disc format fairly easily. Besides, I expect most new Blu-ray releases will be encoded in VC-1 or AVC, mostly because it saves on disc space and allows for more "extras" on a single disc.

Not really. FOX just announced "I, Robot" and ID4 will use MPEG-2 encoding for the Blu-ray releases.

On my front projection, I can tell. I got a PS3 and some older Blu-rays are in MPEG-2 and I can see some artifacting, compared to my HD DVD's.

Don't get me wrong, though, I like the fact it's down to one format. Like DVD, it ultimately depends on what the studios decide to do with it.

Some studios have stunning DVD releases, some are crap. I assume Blu-ray will be the same.

 

[JesterJJZ]

Not really. FOX just announced "I, Robot" and ID4 will use MPEG-2 encoding for the Blu-ray releases.

On my front projection, I can tell. I got a PS3 and some older Blu-rays are in MPEG-2 and I can see some artifacting, compared to my HD DVD's.

Don't get me wrong, though, I like the fact it's down to one format. Like DVD, it ultimately depends on what the studios decide to do with it.

Some studios have stunning DVD releases, some are crap. I assume Blu-ray will be the same.

Ehh...it would be nice to have ID4 look its best...

 

[tonyshucraft]

Im still not convinced that one format is better then the other. All I know is that Sony marketed it better and threw more money at the studios to get them to join up. It should of been a consumer choice to decide a winner not big business tactics. I used to love Sony but in the past few years they have gotten to sleazy. I was kinda hoping they would of been brought down a few pegs.

"I'll give you $1200 for each Sony PS3 you find on the shelf in North America"

 

[bommai]

Not really. FOX just announced "I, Robot" and ID4 will use MPEG-2 encoding for the Blu-ray releases.

On my front projection, I can tell. I got a PS3 and some older Blu-rays are in MPEG-2 and I can see some artifacting, compared to my HD DVD's.

Don't get me wrong, though, I like the fact it's down to one format. Like DVD, it ultimately depends on what the studios decide to do with it.

Some studios have stunning DVD releases, some are crap. I assume Blu-ray will be the same.

Wrong info. ID4 is already out in Japan and it is AVC. Fox has pretty much completely transitioned to AVC and I believe the info for iRobot and ID4 are wrong. They will both use AVC.

 

[Towhead]

You know what's funnier than sh*t? The way I get to play Devil's Advocate for a dying format without having spent a dime on it, comfortable in my position with a large number of Blu-Ray discs purchased for half price or less.

Long live HD-DVD.

 

[DakotaGuy]

Well I bit the bullet tonight and bought a Blu-ray player (Panasonic DMP-BD30) and put all my HD DVD's on eBay. I do a lot of renting from Netflix and since HD DVD is going to be no more soon it is either to Blu-ray or back to SD DVD. I looked at getting a PS3, but the guy said if I don't game and am just buying a movie player the Panasonic might prove to be a more heavy duty unit. It is a profile 1.1 so I should be good for the new extra features coming. I was suprised that the unit was Made in Japan. That is quality compared to most consumer electronics.

As the old saying goes, if you can't beat them, join them.

 

[markrivers]

can't be happier with my PS3 purchase...yehey!