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fedzz

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 13, 2018
9
1
My Macbook Pro has been slow even if I just use Safari browsing Facebook. I run no extension on my safari.


I stupidly downloaded CleanMyMac but has uninstalled and clear everything out. I did use multiple times of its functions including clean memory, clean cache, Maintaince.... now my machine is definitely slower than before. It keeps saying Machine use large RAM but I have 16GB and it should handle heavy task well

I did some research and have follow some setting to lower the load such as: turn off dashboard, hide dock icon, minimize icloud items...

My machince still fanning when I only use Safari for about 2 hours, it doesnt do that normally. The WindowServer seems to going crazy and keep connect to some strange network for me but I couldnt figure out what it is.

EtreCheck version: 5.0.8 (5A019)

Report generated: 2018-11-26 14:41:05

Download EtreCheck from https://etrecheck.com

Runtime: 1:43

Performance: Excellent


Problem: Beachballing


Major Issues:

Anything that appears on this list needs immediate attention.


No Time Machine backup - Time Machine backup not found.


Minor Issues:

These issues do not need immediate attention but they may indicate future problems.


Heavy RAM usage - This machine is using a large amount of RAM.


Hardware Information:

MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2018)

MacBook Pro Model: MacBookPro15,2

1 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 (i5-8259U) CPU: 4-core

16 GB RAM - Not upgradeable

BANK 0/ChannelA-DIMM0 - 8 GB LPDDR3 2133 ok

BANK 2/ChannelB-DIMM0 - 8 GB LPDDR3 2133 ok

Battery: Health = Normal - Cycle count = 46


Video Information:

Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 - VRAM: 1536 MB

Color LCD 2880 x 1800


Drives:

disk0 - APPLE SSD AP0512M 500.28 GB (Solid State - TRIM: Yes)

Internal PCI-Express 8.0 GT/s x4 NVM Express

disk0s1 - EFI [EFI] 315 MB

disk0s2 [APFS Container] 499.96 GB

disk1 [APFS Virtual drive] 499.96 GB (Shared by 4 volumes)

disk1s1 - Macintosh HD (APFS) (Shared - 45.98 GB used)

disk1s2 - Preboot (APFS) [APFS Preboot] (Shared - 45 MB used)

disk1s3 - Recovery (APFS) [Recovery] (Shared - 513 MB used)

disk1s4 - VM (APFS) [APFS VM] (Shared - 2.15 GB used)


Mounted Volumes:

disk1s1 - Macintosh HD 499.96 GB (451.12 GB free)

APFS

Mount point: /

Encrypted


disk1s4 - VM [APFS VM] (Shared - 2.15 GB used)

APFS

Mount point: /private/var/vm

Encrypted


Network:

Interface en0: Wi-Fi

802.11 a/b/g/n/ac

Interface en6: Bluetooth PAN

Interface bridge0: Thunderbolt Bridge

iCloud Quota: 654 MB available


System Software:

macOS Mojave 10.14.1 (18B75)

Time since boot: About 8 days


Configuration Files:

/etc/hosts - Count: 1


Security:

System Status
Gatekeeper Enabled
System Integrity Protection Enabled

32-bit Applications:

None


Kernel Extensions:

/Library/Application Support/Malwarebytes/MBAM/Kext

[Loaded] MB_MBAM_Protection.kext (Malwarebytes Corporation, 3.5 - SDK 10.13)


System Launch Agents:

[Not Loaded] 17 Apple tasks
[Loaded] 161 Apple tasks
[Running] 121 Apple tasks

System Launch Daemons:

[Not Loaded] 36 Apple tasks
[Loaded] 171 Apple tasks
[Running] 127 Apple tasks
[Other] One Apple task

Launch Agents:

[Loaded] com.microsoft.update.agent.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-11-14)
[Running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.frontend.agent.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2018-11-09)

Launch Daemons:

[Running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.rtprotection.daemon.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2018-11-17)
[Running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.settings.daemon.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2018-11-09)
[Loaded] com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-11-14)
[Loaded] com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-10-14)

User Launch Agents:

[Loaded] com.google.keystone.agent.plist (Google, Inc. - installed 2018-11-17)

Time Machine:

Time Machine Not Configured!


Performance:

System Load: 0.97 (1 min ago) 1.31 (5 min ago) 1.52 (15 min ago)

Nominal I/O speed: 0.07 MB/s

File system: 14.89 seconds

Write speed: 1901 MB/s

Read speed: 3041 MB/s


CPU Usage:

Type Overall Individual cores
System 2 % 5 % 0 % 7 % 0 % 1 % 0 % 0 % 0 %
User 1 % 5 % 0 % 4 % 0 % 1 % 0 % 0 % 0 %
Idle 97 % 90 % 100 % 90 % 100 % 98 % 100 % 99 % 100 %

Top Processes by CPU:

Process (count) Source CPU Location
sysmond Apple 10.40 %
EtreCheckPro Etresoft, Inc. 6.80 %
kernel_task Apple 1.72 %
Activity Monitor Apple 1.54 %
WindowServer Apple 0.58 %

Top Processes by Memory:

Process (count) Source RAM usage Location
com.apple.WebKit.WebContent (5) Apple 2.26 GB
EtreCheckPro Etresoft, Inc. 538 MB
kernel_task Apple 338 MB
mdworker_shared (11) Apple 210 MB
Safari Apple 184 MB

Top Processes by Network Use:

Process Source Input Output Location
mDNSResponder Apple 3 MB 591 KB
com.apple.WebKit.Networking Apple 3 MB 93 KB
biometrickitd Apple 1 MB 272 KB
UserEventAgent Apple 124 KB 170 KB
netbiosd Apple 109 KB 23 KB

Virtual Memory Information:

Available RAM 9.21 GB
Free RAM 5.17 GB
Used RAM 6.79 GB
Cached files 4.03 GB
Swap Used 123 MB

Software Installs (past 30 days):

Name Version Install Date
Be Focused 1.7.5 2018-11-06
Tabs Saver for Safari 1.1.0 2018-11-06
Antivirus Zap - Virus & Adware 3.5.3 2018-11-06
Writer 1.6.7 2018-11-06
Gatekeeper Configuration Data 156 2018-11-06
Numbers 5.0 2018-11-07
Keynote 8.0 2018-11-07
Pages 7.0 2018-11-07
Memory Purge 1.3 2018-11-12
App Cleaner & Uninstal‌ler 6.0 2018-11-12
Microsoft Office for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-12
Memory Cleaner 5.1 2018-11-13
Disk Cleaner 1.5 2018-11-13
CleanMyDrive 2 2.1.13 2018-11-13
Microsoft Excel for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-14
Microsoft Word for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-14
"Malwarebytes for Mac Uninstaller" 1.0 2018-11-14
DaisyDisk 4.6.5 2018-11-14
OS Cleaner 3.1.2 2018-11-14
Breaks for Eyes 1.1.1 2018-11-14
Microsoft AutoUpdate 4.5.18110402 2018-11-14
Malwarebytes for Mac 1.0 2018-11-17
OmniFocus 3.1.3 2018-11-22

End of report
 

Attachments

  • Screen Shot 2018-11-26 at 3.26.39 PM.png
    Screen Shot 2018-11-26 at 3.26.39 PM.png
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chrfr

macrumors G5
Jul 11, 2009
13,414
6,886
Your report shows that the computer has over 9GB RAM free. Whatever the problem may be, it's not heavy RAM usage. You have so many "cleaning" utilities which are unnecessary; I'd suggest removing all of them. The problem with Safari may be network related rather than something specific with your computer.
 

fedzz

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 13, 2018
9
1
Your report shows that the computer has over 9GB RAM free. Whatever the problem may be, it's not heavy RAM usage. You have so many "cleaning" utilities which are unnecessary; I'd suggest removing all of them. The problem with Safari may be network related rather than something specific with your computer.
Yes, I did removed ALL of the memory cleanning app. I just ran the check again and it says abnormal shut down. It does have multiple shut down when I check the Console. It seems like Safari is doing some multiple works such as webkit, just a lot of kernel_task. I am afraid the CleanMyMac has deleted some of the important part that needed to run my Macbook smoothly. Do you think that it is possible? I dont know what to do now.

EtreCheck version: 5.0.9 (5A020)

Report generated: 2018-11-26 15:55:16

Download EtreCheck from https://etrecheck.com

Runtime: 1:37

Performance: Excellent


Problem: Computer is too slow


Major Issues:

Anything that appears on this list needs immediate attention.


No Time Machine backup - Time Machine backup not found.


Minor Issues:

These issues do not need immediate attention but they may indicate future problems.


Abnormal shutdown - Your machine shut down abnormally.


Hardware Information:

MacBook Pro (13-inch, 2018)

MacBook Pro Model: MacBookPro15,2

1 2.3 GHz Intel Core i5 (i5-8259U) CPU: 4-core

16 GB RAM - Not upgradeable

BANK 0/ChannelA-DIMM0 - 8 GB LPDDR3 2133 ok

BANK 2/ChannelB-DIMM0 - 8 GB LPDDR3 2133 ok

Battery: Health = Normal - Cycle count = 46


Video Information:

Intel Iris Plus Graphics 655 - VRAM: 1536 MB

Color LCD 3360 x 2100


Drives:

disk0 - APPLE SSD AP0512M 500.28 GB (Solid State - TRIM: Yes)

Internal PCI-Express 8.0 GT/s x4 NVM Express

disk0s1 - EFI [EFI] 315 MB

disk0s2 [APFS Container] 499.96 GB

disk1 [APFS Virtual drive] 499.96 GB (Shared by 4 volumes)

disk1s1 - Macintosh HD (APFS) (Shared - 47.34 GB used)

disk1s2 - Preboot (APFS) [APFS Preboot] (Shared - 45 MB used)

disk1s3 - Recovery (APFS) [Recovery] (Shared - 513 MB used)

disk1s4 - VM (APFS) [APFS VM] (Shared - 1.07 GB used)


Mounted Volumes:

disk1s1 - Macintosh HD 499.96 GB (450.83 GB free)

APFS

Mount point: /

Encrypted


disk1s4 - VM [APFS VM] (Shared - 1.07 GB used)

APFS

Mount point: /private/var/vm

Encrypted


Network:

Interface en0: Wi-Fi

802.11 a/b/g/n/ac

Interface en6: Bluetooth PAN

Interface bridge0: Thunderbolt Bridge

iCloud Quota: 651 MB available


System Software:

macOS Mojave 10.14.1 (18B75)

Time since boot: Less than an hour


Configuration Files:

/etc/hosts - Count: 1


Security:

System Status
Gatekeeper Enabled
System Integrity Protection Enabled

32-bit Applications:

None


Kernel Extensions:

/Library/Application Support/Malwarebytes/MBAM/Kext

[Loaded] MB_MBAM_Protection.kext (Malwarebytes Corporation, 3.5 - SDK 10.13)


System Launch Agents:

[Not Loaded] 17 Apple tasks
[Loaded] 158 Apple tasks
[Running] 123 Apple tasks
[Other] One Apple task

System Launch Daemons:

[Not Loaded] 36 Apple tasks
[Loaded] 181 Apple tasks
[Running] 117 Apple tasks
[Other] One Apple task

Launch Agents:

[Loaded] com.microsoft.update.agent.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-11-14)
[Running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.frontend.agent.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2018-11-09)

Launch Daemons:

[Running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.rtprotection.daemon.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2018-11-17)
[Running] com.malwarebytes.mbam.settings.daemon.plist (Malwarebytes Corporation - installed 2018-11-09)
[Loaded] com.microsoft.autoupdate.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-11-14)
[Loaded] com.microsoft.office.licensingV2.helper.plist (Microsoft Corporation - installed 2018-10-14)

User Launch Agents:

[Loaded] com.google.keystone.agent.plist (Google, Inc. - installed 2018-11-17)

Time Machine:

Time Machine Not Configured!


Performance:

System Load: 1.19 (1 min ago) 1.28 (5 min ago) 1.30 (15 min ago)

Nominal I/O speed: 2.43 MB/s

File system: 12.69 seconds

Write speed: 1911 MB/s

Read speed: 3027 MB/s


CPU Usage:

Type Overall Individual cores
System 3 % 8 % 0 % 5 % 0 % 5 % 0 % 2 % 0 %
User 2 % 7 % 0 % 5 % 0 % 3 % 0 % 2 % 0 %
Idle 95 % 85 % 99 % 90 % 100 % 92 % 99 % 95 % 100 %

Top Processes by CPU:

Process (count) Source CPU Location
EtreCheckPro Etresoft, Inc. 6.76 %
WindowServer Apple 6.20 %
sysmond Apple 2.26 %
kernel_task Apple 2.02 %
Activity Monitor Apple 0.22 %

Top Processes by Memory:

Process (count) Source RAM usage Location
com.apple.WebKit.WebContent (3) Apple 847 MB
EtreCheckPro Etresoft, Inc. 542 MB
Finder Apple 405 MB
kernel_task Apple 219 MB
Safari Apple 197 MB

Top Processes by Network Use:

Process Source Input Output Location
corespeechd Apple 1 KB 3 MB
mDNSResponder Apple 213 KB 59 KB
biometrickitd Apple 81 KB 138 KB
cloudd Apple 76 KB 34 KB
UserEventAgent Apple 19 KB 20 KB

Virtual Memory Information:

Available RAM 10.30 GB
Free RAM 4.07 GB
Used RAM 5.70 GB
Cached files 6.23 GB
Swap Used 0 B

Software Installs (past 30 days):

Name Version Install Date
Be Focused 1.7.5 2018-11-06
Tabs Saver for Safari 1.1.0 2018-11-06
Antivirus Zap - Virus & Adware 3.5.3 2018-11-06
Writer 1.6.7 2018-11-06
Gatekeeper Configuration Data 156 2018-11-06
Numbers 5.0 2018-11-07
Keynote 8.0 2018-11-07
Pages 7.0 2018-11-07
Memory Purge 1.3 2018-11-12
App Cleaner & Uninstal‌ler 6.0 2018-11-12
Microsoft Office for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-12
Memory Cleaner 5.1 2018-11-13
Disk Cleaner 1.5 2018-11-13
CleanMyDrive 2 2.1.13 2018-11-13
Microsoft Excel for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-14
Microsoft Word for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-14
"Malwarebytes for Mac Uninstaller" 1.0 2018-11-14
DaisyDisk 4.6.5 2018-11-14
OS Cleaner 3.1.2 2018-11-14
Breaks for Eyes 1.1.1 2018-11-14
Microsoft AutoUpdate 4.5.18110402 2018-11-14
Malwarebytes for Mac 1.0 2018-11-17
OmniFocus 3.1.3 2018-11-22

Diagnostics Information (past 7 days):

2018-11-26 14:57:33 Last Shutdown Cause: -11 - Unknown



End of report
 

FrostyF

macrumors regular
Nov 2, 2018
211
186
Western Canada
Time to reinstall the OS and start from scratch.

Be Focused 1.7.5 2018-11-06
Tabs Saver for Safari 1.1.0 2018-11-06
Antivirus Zap - Virus & Adware 3.5.3 2018-11-06
Writer 1.6.7 2018-11-06
Gatekeeper Configuration Data 156 2018-11-06
Numbers 5.0 2018-11-07
Keynote 8.0 2018-11-07
Pages 7.0 2018-11-07
Memory Purge 1.3 2018-11-12
App Cleaner & Uninstal‌ler 6.0 2018-11-12

Microsoft Office for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-12
Memory Cleaner 5.1 2018-11-13
Disk Cleaner 1.5 2018-11-13
CleanMyDrive 2 2.1.13 2018-11-13

Microsoft Excel for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-14
Microsoft Word for Mac 16.19.18110915 2018-11-14
"Malwarebytes for Mac Uninstaller" 1.0 2018-11-14
DaisyDisk 4.6.5 2018-11-14
OS Cleaner 3.1.2 2018-11-14

Breaks for Eyes 1.1.1 2018-11-14
Microsoft AutoUpdate 4.5.18110402 2018-11-14
Malwarebytes for Mac 1.0 2018-11-17
OmniFocus 3.1.3 2018-11-22

After you re-install, don't install any of the crap in bold.
 
Last edited:

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,091
18,746
Can you please post a screenshot of your memory pressure (activity monitor, memory tab). If its green, you have no "heavy RAM usage". Also, stop using tools like CleanMyMac and the like, all they do is slow down your machine by messing with its normal operation. As FrostyF points out, you have a lot of garbage utilities that don't have any purpose (I don't share their criticism on Malwarebytes and DaisyDisk though — especially DaisyDisk is a great app that I use often to remove large downloads).

But yes, I'd do a complete reinstall at this point. See if that works stuff out.
 

FrostyF

macrumors regular
Nov 2, 2018
211
186
Western Canada
(I don't share their criticism on Malwarebytes and DaisyDisk though — especially DaisyDisk is a great app that I use often to remove large downloads).

You don't need 3rd party software to remove large downloads, you can do it straight from MacOS. Apple Icon > About This Mac > Storage > Manage > Review Files.

Malware-bytes free does not prevent anything and is a reactive product.
[doublepost=1543342108][/doublepost]
Gatekeeper is Apple's own software. It should definitely be installed, and in fact gets installed automatically.

Yeah you're right, I mistakenly highlighted that one.
 
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RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
Out of interest I installed the latest version of EtreCheck on my 2018 16GB 13-inch MBP to try and mirror your test. I have zero issues with this machine, or indeed with any of my others.

Results:

Screenshot 2018-11-28 at 14.23.29.png


Clicking the Review button:

Screenshot 2018-11-28 at 14.23.53.png


And for info:

Screenshot 2018-11-28 at 14.24.03.png


And the MacOS opinion:

Screenshot 2018-11-28 at 14.38.33.png


In this regard EtreCheck is clearly crying wolf and the warning should be disregarded.

Hope this helps.
 

fedzz

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 13, 2018
9
1
Out of interest I installed the latest version of EtreCheck on my 2018 16GB 13-inch MBP to try and mirror your test. I have zero issues with this machine, or indeed with any of my others.

Results:

View attachment 807072

Clicking the Review button:

View attachment 807073

And for info:

View attachment 807074

And the MacOS opinion:

View attachment 807075

In this regard EtreCheck is clearly crying wolf and the warning should be disregarded.

Hope this helps.

I am so so so sad, I just paid money for its pro version and read and tried to understand it....
 

etresoft

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2016
40
32
Out of interest I installed the latest version of EtreCheck on my 2018 16GB 13-inch MBP to try and mirror your test. I have zero issues with this machine, or indeed with any of my others.
...
In this regard EtreCheck is clearly crying wolf and the warning should be disregarded.
EtreCheck is reporting this as a “minor issue” and clearly says that minor issues should normally be disregarded if they don’t appear to relate to the problem you are experiencing. But if you aren’t having issues with your machine, then why run EtreCheck?

That being said, you do have 16 GB of RAM and you are well into swap space. Minor issue or not, you did run out of RAM for some reason. (The “you” can be plural in this case and refer both to RobbieTT and fedzz)

EtreCheck adjusts its results based on the machine you are using. Running out of RAM on a 2018 MBP with super-fast flash storage is not that big of a deal. That is why it is minor. I still suggest it should be investigated. 16 GB is an awful lot of RAM to run out of.

But if you were using a 2012 MBP with a mechanical hard drive, then going into swap is going to stop that machine dead in its tracks. In that case EtreCheck would report it as a major issue. EtreCheck is designed to help people with older, sicker machines get a little bit more life and value out of their purchase. EtreCheck will help with newer machines too, but it is going to be harder. Your 16 GB RAM, 8-12 virtual cores, and 3000 MB/s SSD speed is going to effectively mask a lot of problems from casual observation. Any individual lines or sections may not have much meaning. it is the entire report that tells a story.

In this case, the story it is telling is that there is no current, obvious cause. It has had heavy RAM usage, but it has been running for 8 days. The only major issue is a lack of backup. The OP seems to have been installing quite a number of “clean up” apps. Those could easily cause beach balling by interfering with the operating system’s own memory management. I suggest restarting and avoid running any such apps. They aren’t installed in the background, so if the OP just doesn’t run them, they shouldn’t impact performance. But if the machine continues to behave poorly, and EtreCheck does show show any obvious cause, then there could be a hardware problem or something more subtle. In some cases, the value of EtreCheck is to eliminate a whole lot of potential causes.

I’m partial to leman’s reply myself. If that fixes the problem, then I’m confident that EtreCheck has done its job.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,091
18,746
That being said, you do have 16 GB of RAM and you are well into swap space. Minor issue or not, you did run out of RAM for some reason. (The “you” can be plural in this case and refer both to RobbieTT and fedzz)

Not necessarily. The system can decide to swap out pages for whatever reason. Not to mention that this could be just aggressive optimisations that predictively write a copy of inactive pages to the disk, so that they can be evicted instantly should the need arise. Similarly, background processes with predictable activation pattern (such as jobs on a long timer), would be a good candidate for swapping out aggressively.

At any rate, the swap size is less then 1% of the RAM, so I certainly wouldn't worry about it. I'd start worrying if the swap routinely exceeds 5-10% of the RAM.
 

mac_in_tosh

macrumors 6502a
Nov 6, 2016
584
6,335
Earth
I don't know if this is related, but starting a few weeks ago Safari would intermittently cause the fans on my MBPro to loudly ramp up. When I go to Activity Monitor there is something called Safari Networking that is hogging the machine. I delete it, apparently without any undesirable consequences, and the fans quiet down.
 
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iKnowMr.Jobs

macrumors 6502
Oct 17, 2010
273
96
Any software related to things along the lines of anivirus, memory purge, driver cleaner, etc, are all junk software designed specifically to lock up your Mac and hold it hostage for money (that's only a slight exaggeration). macOS itself manages all of this itself without any need for intervention (with the exception of storage cleaning, thats mainly on you to figure out but there's easy ways to clean up the drive without any additional software.).
 

AppleHaterLover

macrumors 68020
Jun 15, 2018
2,048
2,051
macOS is famous for using however much RAM you have available very efficiently. You shouldn't go about messing with that.

However, Safari will at times have a tab eating resources. kill safari, open it again, problem solved
 

fedzz

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 13, 2018
9
1
I erased my disk and reinstall new OS yesterday. Today, Safari would be fanning when i browse after 2 or 3 hours. it wouldnt upload my svg file to my website. I thought it was a website problem. Switched to Firefox and everything is so much smoother and faster and display correctly. Is there a problem with Safari currently? or do you think that I permanently damanged my machine somehow since the same crap was installed in my iMac too and they communicate? Do I have to buy a new machine?

I also dont know why my eTrecheck is no longer Pro after I reinstalled the OS and reinstalled the eTrecheck
 
Last edited:

RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
But if you aren’t having issues with your machine, then why run EtreCheck?

I downloaded and ran EtreCheck in order to be helpful to the original poster as one of my machines is similar to his specification. Sometimes it is useful to run a test on 'known good' system as a sanity check.

That being said, you do have 16 GB of RAM and you are well into swap space. Minor issue or not, you did run out of RAM for some reason. (The “you” can be plural in this case and refer both to RobbieTT and fedzz)

I did not run out of RAM and the swap space is routinely used by MacOS, indeed the entire system is run on virtual memory under the control of the Memory Management Unit (MMU). The MMU is the only part of the MacOS memory system that translates logical addresses into the actual hardware memory address. The only segment of memory that cannot be moved from RAM is the wired/resident memory. In my example this was just 2.89GB out of 16GB. Wired memory is never released even when it is no longer valid. The MMU uses a garbage collection process if and when the space is needed.

I still suggest it should be investigated. 16 GB is an awful lot of RAM to run out of.

You are correct that 16GB is a lot of memory; MacOS will happily run on 4GB and 8GB is comfy, with some future proofing. Very few users need more than 8GB but many more purchase greater amounts due to misunderstandings with the system. Indeed, MacOS rarely allocates more than 4GB to a single process by design. There is, of course, a small subset of users who need 16GB or more. MacWindows users really need 16GB and those running virtual machines can need a serious amount of RAM. These power users will know exactly what additional RAM they need and will have an understanding as to why.

I think that that you may have misunderstood what the MMU is displaying to EtreCheck and that EtreCheck is triggering the RAM message based on the incorrect parameter. Again, from my example of 'large amounts of RAM being used' at Post #8:

The circa ~10GB of 'used' memory is actually the sum of the 2.89GB of 'Wired' memory that has to be directly available, plus ~1GB of memory that can be compressed by the MMU, plus an additional 6.57GB allocated to apps because the MMU has those resources to spare and the applications can make use of that space. The MMU is biased towards using as much memory as it can whilst being cognisant of how little it really needs to function. If I ran the same load on an 8GB machine I would still expect the 'used' memory to have ~2.9GB of Wired memory but a much smaller amount allocated to App Memory. App Memory can and is made available to other apps as and when needed.

The ~4GB of virtual RAM listed as 'Cached Files' is an intelligent use of free space. In this example this 4GB is not being used by the MMU at all; it is effectively free. Rather than zapping the unused contents the MMU allows closed apps to retain their memory just in case the app is launched again but it remains free to use if needed.

The final ~1GB of 'Free' space is RAM that has never been used or requested by any open or closed app or by the wired/resident memory. In truth the real amount of free allocable virtual RAM is the total of the virtual App Memory that the MMU didn't really need to allocate (probably around 5GB in this example), plus 4GB of Cached Files, plus 1GB of Free memory (5+4+1) = 10GB. In other words the system would run the current workload unhindered by just 6GB of physical RAM (16GB physical RAM - 10GB allocable RAM = 6GB).

Your 16 GB RAM, 8-12 virtual cores, and 3000 MB/s SSD speed is going to effectively mask a lot of problems from casual observation.

No problems are being masked; this is normal behaviour and the MMU is working as designed with a significant amount of available virtual RAM in its back-pocket. To the end user the complications of the MMU are simplified and displayed by the happy green memory pressure graph on activity monitor. In no way should this example test case trigger a 'large amount of RAM' usage warning on EtreCheck. Nor should it prompt the end-user to install more RAM (if physically possible) or prompt any concern.

For further reading on the Virtual Memory System:

https://developer.apple.com/library...tual/ManagingMemory/Articles/AboutMemory.html

For a simple overview on the Activity Monitor:

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT201464#memory

Hope this helps.
[doublepost=1543494147][/doublepost]
I erased my disk and reinstall new OS yesterday. Today, Safari would be fanning when i browse after 2 or 3 hours. it wouldnt upload my svg file to my website. I thought it was a website problem. Switched to Firefox and everything is so much smoother and faster and display correctly. Is there a problem with Safari currently?

Sitting here by the fire with just productivity apps open and a few Safari tabs the CPU in my 13-inch 2018 MBP is sitting at 34 deg C. Unsurprisingly it is sipping at the battery and the fans are not even off the stops.

You could have something funky going on and Activity Monitor will help you to understand what is going on. But remember, you just did a wipe and reinstall. There will be a brace of post-installation tasks going on in the background plus Spotlight reindexing your drive. It will take quite a while for everything to settle down to normal.
 
Last edited:
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etresoft

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2016
40
32
I erased my disk and reinstall new OS yesterday. Today, Safari would be fanning when i browse after 2 or 3 hours. it wouldnt upload my svg file to my website. I thought it was a website problem. Switched to Firefox and everything is so much smoother and faster and display correctly. Is there a problem with Safari currently? or do you think that I permanently damanged my machine somehow since the same crap was installed in my iMac too and they communicate? Do I have to buy a new machine?
It would be best to post a new EtreCheck report. There is no way to tell what you really did during the reinstall. You may have restored from backup and restored a bunch of adware and/or system modifications. Once you wipe and reinstall, the old EtreCheck report is no good anymore.

It is difficult to say if this is a problem with Safari or just an incompatibility. Is this a website that you made? Then that adds another wrinkle. Usually you have to post the URL to such sites so that other people can try it and compare their results.

Although there is some cross-communication with respect to iCloud, that is limited to keychains, bookmarks, and history. You could have some extensions installed that are causing problems.

I also dont know why my eTrecheck is no longer Pro after I reinstalled the OS and reinstalled the eTrecheck
I’m not sure what you mean there. I don’t know if you are talking about the difference between “EtreCheck” in the Mac App Store and “EtreCheckPro” downloaded directly or the “Power User” package. If you are using the Mac App Store version and download a new copy, it should automatically download with all in-app purchases. But if you restored an old version from backup that had an old receipt, then you will need to use the “Restore” button to get a new receipt that includes your in-app purchases. But if you are using EtreCheckPro, then you will need to re-enter your activation code.
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I downloaded and ran EtreCheck in order to be helpful to the original poster as one of my machines is similar to his specification. Sometimes it is useful to run a test on 'known good' system as a sanity check.
If you want to help someone with EtreCheck, you should look at their report and comment on it. Running it on your machine and then making comments on that is not helpful.

EtreCheck looks at many different data points. VM status is just one of them. I have seriously considered removing the VM information completely due to recent changes in memory behaviour. I will have to look at more real reports from typical user machines before I can make that determination. For now, I still consider swap space a useful indicator.

This particular item is listed as a Minor Issue. In some cases, Minor Issues might have some meaning. But most of the time, Minor Issues are only there to give people something harmless to tweak on instead of downloading every “cleaner” app under the sun. EtreCheck’s documentation is clear on this point - "These issues do not need immediate attention”.

No problems are being masked; this is normal behaviour and the MMU is working as designed with a significant amount of available virtual RAM in its back-pocket.
As I said before, someone who has a machine with 16 GB RAM, 8-12 virtual cores, and 3000 MB/s SSD isn’t going to notice much. Just the other day, my USB-C dongle flaked out. I didn’t realize it until my machine slowed down due to 600% CPU usage on kernel_task. That was shortly before the machine shut down because it was out of power. It had been running off the battery for who knows how long. It takes significant issues to notice a problem on a machine like this. On an older machine you can tell when something is wrong just by the sound alone.

To the end user the complications of the MMU are simplified and displayed by the happy green memory pressure graph on activity monitor. In no way should this example test case trigger a 'large amount of RAM' usage warning on EtreCheck.
EtreCheck is not designed to be run on a top-of-the-line machine having no problems. It reports everything it finds. It does its best to identify issues as major and minor. But it never hides anything it finds.

I can guarantee you that a 2010 iMac with 4 GB RAM, a mechanical hard drive, and a modern operating system is going to grind to a dead halt when it gets into swap space. You aren’t even going to be able to bring up Activity Monitor. It will take several minutes of beachballs and force-quitting apps before you could ever launch it. And guess what - by the time you get Activity Monitor launched, it will be happy green. I’ve seen this with my own eyes. But if you run EtreCheck on this machine afterwards, it will show evidence of this past out-of-ram situation.

Nor should it prompt the end-user to install more RAM (if physically possible) or prompt any concern.
I’m quite certain that EtreCheck did not tell you to install more RAM. If EtreCheck were running on that 2010 iMac, then it might. If it were a 2012 MBP, then it might suggest an SSD upgrade too. In any case, and especially with machines that can’t be upgraded, it will provide solutions on how to better manage RAM, including information about how to use Activity Monitor. I don’t see any problem with that.

If you are sincere about wanting to help people, then EtreCheck is going to be a useful tool. It collects a lot of information from the user so that you don’t have to. I’ve never made any claims about it being flawless. It is under constant development and review. In this case, it showed a minor issue about ram usage. It also showed evidence of “app and memory cleaners”. It shows the user complaining about performance problems on a machine that shouldn’t have such problems. That looks pretty straightforward. I will take your concerns about the swap space reporting into consideration. I have a new build coming up. I can adjust how this is displayed, take uptime into consideration, apply a threshold maybe. If you have suggestions, I would be happy to hear them. And thanks for the Apple Support link. I can add that to EtreCheck’s own instructions on how to use Activity Monitor.
[doublepost=1543516697][/doublepost]Boy these “merged posts” are annoying! Is there a way to turn that off?
 
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RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
RAM does not need managing by the end user.

If you are genuinely interested in what source data is used to produce the simple memory pressure graph in activity monitor then open Terminal and type vm_stat. This will give the virtual memory usage:

Screenshot 2018-11-29 at 20.17.48.png
 
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etresoft

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2016
40
32
RAM does not need managing by the end user.
Then why would Apple go to the effort of displaying it? Less than a month ago, Apple was still selling a machine with 4 GB RAM and a mechanical hard drive, both not upgradeable. I think it is important that users realize that their web browser alone may be consuming 75% of their memory.

If you are genuinely interested in what source data is used to produce the simple memory pressure graph in activity monitor then open Terminal and type vm_stat. This will give the virtual memory usage:
I never said anything about being interested in source data. vm_stat is one of dozens of low-level tools and APIs that EtreCheck uses to collect its information.

EtreCheck is not Activity Monitor. It is a different app with a different design and different goals.
 

RobbieTT

macrumors 6502a
Apr 3, 2010
572
826
United Kingdom
It's not consuming memory, it is maximising the use of memory.

I don't think you have a good grasp of how the virtual memory system works and this is carrying through to your tool and, ultimately, the users of your tool. It should not provide any warning about memory usage if the system is ticking over, as designed, with the memory pressure in the green.

Tempted to ask about the non-replaceable mechanical hard drive, but I know only confusions await.
 

etresoft

macrumors member
Sep 12, 2016
40
32
EtreCheck is not Activity Monitor. It is not possible to go back in time and review the memory pressure at exactly the point 3 days ago when the user experienced a problem. Activity Monitor cannot do that. EtreCheck cannot do that.

Clearly you are not bothering to read what I write. Clearly you are not familiar with how EtreCheck works or how to use it.

Please, in the interests of anyone still looking at this thread, resist that temptation.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,308
43,134
RAM does not need managing by the end user.
Agreed

Then why would Apple go to the effort of displaying it? Less than a month ago, Apple was still selling a machine with 4 GB RAM and a mechanical hard drive, both not upgradeable. I think it is important that users realize that their web browser alone may be consuming 75% of their memory.
Displaying and managing are two different things, and apple even dumbed down the activity monitor to make it less precise, just because they feel its not in their best interest in allowing users to manage the internal workings of macOS. Apple has always wanted people just to use their machines, and not worry about ram.

macOS runs very well on machines that have 4GB of ram, that's why they were still selling them. If anything that is a solid reason why for many folks 16GB of ram is more then enough, and potentially overkill for most normal usage, which goes back to the ludicrous advice for the OP that his machine's ram is constrained.
 
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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,091
18,746
Displaying and managing are two different things, and apple even dumbed down the activity monitor to make it less precise, just because they feel its not in their best interest in allowing users to manage the internal workings of macOS.

Did they dumb it down though? I though they made it more clear for an average user. There are not many people who understand all the intricacies of modern virtual memory management. I think it would be fairly dumb to expose all this complexity to the user.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,308
43,134
Did they dumb it down though? I though they made it more clear for an average user.
You mean made it clear like many automakers who removed dials from their cars back in the 70s/80s and instead used what is now commonly referred to idiot lights? Yes Apple made it clear using pictures and yes that very act dumbed it down. There is a lack of precision with the activity monitor that was helpful to many people.
 

Premal212

macrumors regular
Jan 26, 2017
249
126
London UK
MacOS always uses a lot of RAM as many folk have mentioned, but that's just the way it is, as someone said, unused RAM is wasted RAM. It's not like a CPU where you're burning heat and power.

When a program demands it, the OS will just scale back how much it's using elsewhere, it's very efficient, what you should be focusing on is the memory pressure. When it starts spiking into orange and red, which yours doesn't, then it's time for an upgrade, but your memory pressure is solidly in the green - as is mine at 32GB.

See the attached PNG, found this on the web, as you can see, where it's flashing up orange and red, that's alarm bells to upgrade. But in solid green, you're good to go.
 

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