HELP! hd installation

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
i have a (2000) g4 powermac 2x450 gigabyte w/ 30g maxtor HD from apple. along with the dvd-rom and zip drive.

i just got a western digital wd800 hard drive and am having problems installing it. my mac won't boot up with it connected. i have the jumper pin set to slave and have it connected to the gray (middle) ide ribbon cable and left the original on the black (last) after multiple configurations of the jumper pins i still can't get it to boot with the new drive hooked up.

what am i missing!? HELP?
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
yea i tried removing the jumper completely which is the setting for single master. didn't do anything.

no matter what, as long as its hooked up the comp won't even bootup. my tv screen just stays blank. if i discnct the new HD i'm back ta normal....
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
just ta provide more information. i hooked it up to a monitor thinking i was missing some screen or something that comes on before tv output support is initialized on my vid card.

i get the white screen w/grey apple and tha circle of lines eventually the apple goes away and is replaced by a grey O with a line in it. kind of like a no smoking sign w/out the cigarette.

you guys gotta help me! please!
 

frankblundt

macrumors 65816
Sep 19, 2005
1,271
0
South of the border
I've had issues with Western Digital drives not liking being slaves for some reason... Did you try it with the jumper on CS (Cable Select)? on both drives.

What if you boot from the system CD, what does Disk Utility see then?
 

spinne1

macrumors 6502a
Do you use your zip drive? If not, perhaps you could do what I did which is remove the zip drive, and put a hard drive in the place of the zip drive (you can only use two screws to hold it in place on the sides, but it works) That way you could run an IDE cable from the motherboard up to the DVD drive and the new hard drive, with the hard drive as master and the DVD drive as slave. You only need an extra IDE cable if the cable there now is designed for the DVD drive to be the master and the zip drive to be the slave--if so, use an extra IDE cable. If not, use what is there.

Also, if you want to keep your DVD and zip drive as is, try hooking up the new HD as master on the end of the IDE cable that is now connecting your hard drives, and put your 30g drive as the slave and change the jumpers accordingly. Then reboot using a CD and see if it boots. If it does, consider formatting the drive and maybe even using Carbon Copy Cloner or SuperDuper to copy your internal HD over so that you could boot from the new hard drive. If it still does not boot, either you have the jumpers wrong somehow, or the hard drive is seriously messed up inside, with perhaps bad circuitry.

Lastly (and this has gotten me before), check your pins in your hard drive and the connector on your IDE cable. Make sure all pins are straight and going into the holes cleanly with no unusual force.
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
no bent pins.

cable select didn't work either.

i've tried swapping posistions on the cable. (w/out making the new drive master b/c there's no os on it.....)

my mac didn't come with a system cd. it already had tiger installed on it.

i tried connecting it in place of both the dvd and the zip drive. that only succeded in showing the dvd drive listed in disk utility.

That way you could run an IDE cable from the motherboard up to the DVD drive and the new hard drive, with the hard drive as master and the DVD drive as slave. You only need an extra IDE cable if the cable there now is designed for the DVD drive to be the master and the zip drive to be the slave--if so, use an extra IDE cable. If not, use what is there.
didn't quite follow that. there's already a dual support cable running up there from the motherboard. the one thing i'm not sure of is the jumper settings for the dvd drive to make it slave. i've got the hitachi... anyway i don't know where id need the extra ide cable. the black connecter is on the dvd so i'm assuming it IS setup to be the master.
 

spinne1

macrumors 6502a
Toby Goodbar said:
i've tried swapping posistions on the cable. (w/out making the new drive master b/c there's no os on it.....)
You must make the last one on the chain the master and jumper it as such. In the Mac world I do not believe it matters if the master has an OS on it or not. I'm pretty sure you can boot from a slave drive.

Toby Goodbar said:
my mac didn't come with a system cd. it already had tiger installed on it.
You need to buy one on ebay. It comes in very handy for troubleshooting. ($50-$60) It is vital to have a bootable OS disc for just these type of situations.

Toby Goodbar said:
I tried connecting it in place of both the dvd and the zip drive. that only succeded in showing the dvd drive listed in disk utility.
To connect it in those places, you must first set the jumpers correctly for the location on the IDE cable you use to hook it up. If the end, then master, and if the middle, then slave. Another issue you might have is that you need an 80-pin IDE cable and your cable might be only 40-pin. How to tell? From what I've been told, if your middle connector is grey and your end connector is blue, and the other end black, it is an 80-pin. If all connectors are black it is a 40-pin. Try hooking up ONLY the new drive on one IDE cable as master (and jumpered as such) and the other HD on the other IDE cable as master (and jumpered as such). Does it boot? Then your hard drive is okay and your problem is in your jumpers most likely.

Toby Goodbar said:
There's already a dual support cable running up there from the motherboard. the one thing i'm not sure of is the jumper settings for the dvd drive to make it slave. i've got the hitachi... anyway i don't know where id need the extra ide cable. the black connecter is on the dvd so i'm assuming it IS setup to be the master.
To check, remove the back metal piece or metal tape over the back of the DVD drive and you'll see markings showing the jumper configuration for slave/master/cable select. You may need to remove the whole DVD/Zip drive assembly to get at it.

While there is a dual support cable, it may be routed to ONLY allow you to hook up the DVD as master and the zip as slave. If that is so, then you should use an additional IDE cable if you want to have the hard drive as master and the DVD as slave. Yet again however, I don't know if it matters whether your hard drives are slaves or masters.
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
ok turns out if i let it sit there for awhile it will eventually boot up. but i still need help.

RESULTS:

You must make the last one on the chain the master and jumper it as such. In the Mac world I do not believe it matters if the master has an OS on it or not. I'm pretty sure you can boot from a slave drive.
to verify you CAN boot from a slave drive. but the new HD still doesn't show up in disk utility

Try hooking up ONLY the new drive on one IDE cable as master (and jumpered as such) and the other HD on the other IDE cable as master (and jumpered as such). Does it boot? Then your hard drive is okay and your problem is in your jumpers most likely.
yea it booted but the new HD still doesn't show up in disk utility. i would say my jumper settings are correct with 99.9% positivity. i've checked and rechecked the manufacturers website and even found "alternate" jumper settings which didn't work either.

so basically my problem now is that i can't get disk utility to see the drive so i can format and initialize it. is there a step i'm missing like a pre boot setup or something? (similar to an F12 on PC preboot to setup the bios???)
 

spinne1

macrumors 6502a
Toby Goodbar said:
so basically my problem now is that i can't get disk utility to see the drive so i can format and initialize it. is there a step i'm missing like a pre boot setup or something? (similar to an F12 on PC preboot to setup the bios???)
That is very puzzling. It should just show up. No set up is needed. My next step would be to return it if possible, or find a different computer to see if it will show up on that.
 

bokdol

macrumors 6502a
Jul 23, 2002
879
16
VA
do you have a tiger os dvd? if you do. set the jumpers to master. boot off disk and see if you can reformat the drive from the dvd install disk. also before doing this if you check about this mac. you can see if the slave bus is being used by a device. maybe you got a junk drive.. well good luck
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
well turns it out it was a bunk drive. so i just bought a 160gb hd for 70 at staples.

NEway, i know theres a size limit of 127? so i want to know how i can partition the drive for a 120/40 split.
 

spinne1

macrumors 6502a
Toby Goodbar said:
well turns it out it was a bunk drive. so i just bought a 160gb hd for 70 at staples.

NEway, i know theres a size limit of 127? so i want to know how i can partition the drive for a 120/40 split.
Open Disk Utility, then select the drive you want to partition in the left part of the screen, then select the Partition tab, then under the item Volume Scheme with a pull down menu, select "2 Partitions" then set the size of the first partition to 120 Gb, and name it, then the second to 40 Gb, and name it, then hit the Partition button. Also, use Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and also use OS 9 drivers if you plan to ever use Classic or OS 9 on the drive.

That's it.
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
for some reason, after doing the partition, the drive reads 87/39 split. i know you lose some space but not 30 gigs. shouldn't it read the drive as the full 120 and 40?
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
ok after some research i found out about intech's "ata hi cap driver" and obtained it.

[hint: demonoid.com]

ill install it and report back here......
 

Toby Goodbar

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Sep 8, 2006
385
0
ok installed tha hi cap drivers and it worked... kinda.... i'm missing access to 10gigs. tha mac registers its as a 147 drive.... it should be 160. any insights?

my question is how do i move my movie/picture/document etc folders (you know, the one osx gives you)... to tha new bigger drive?
 

spinne1

macrumors 6502a
Toby Goodbar said:
ok installed tha hi cap drivers and it worked... kinda.... i'm missing access to 10gigs. tha mac registers its as a 147 drive.... it should be 160. any insights?

my question is how do i move my movie/picture/document etc folders (you know, the one osx gives you)... to tha new bigger drive?
The 147 is normal. The 160 given as the size by the manufacturer of the hard drive refers to the literal definition of a gibabyte, whereas computers generally use a different definition (ie one Megabyte=1024kb on a computer hard drive, instead of 1000kb, which when you extend it out to a bigger hard drive equals the smaller size once formatted).

This is the way it is and is normal for all computers (unless the hard drive manufacturer chooses to advertise drives using their formatted sizes, which I have heard some are doing now).

As for how to move, well you don't. You could make new folders on the new hard drive and name them the same names and store your stuff there, but I would not do that. I would make my bigger partition my boot drive and go from there.