HELP!!- HDCP Error on Apple TV

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by Kusanagi6913, Jan 4, 2009.

  1. Kusanagi6913 macrumors newbie

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    Jun 10, 2008
    #1
    Quick question--may have been answered by people but I've been having that dreaded HDCP content error message recently and now can only view my movies (rented or not) from composite cables. Yes, I have one of those 1st HDTV's where you had the HDMI to DVI.

    My question is that obviously the box states nothing about this. Apple stores have never heard of the error (which means nothing since they are less informed than your average Best Buy employee and that's saying something) and it's not listed much on App TV support. Is this a TV brand specific thing? Is this due to update 2.2? Is there a workaround? Composite cables are BS on video quality and wonder why I'm being asked to use them instead of high quality DVI to HDMI cables?

    HELP!
     
  2. downinitjr macrumors member

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    Minnesota
    #2
    Sounds to me like you are trying to use a hdmi to dvi cable. Being as the tv has an hdmi output I assume your tv only has dvi. Doesn't sound like an apple problem to me. They provide a hdmi, and a component output, if they wanted to provide and support a dvi output then they would have built that in. Now if you were using straight hdmi then maybe you could argue apple into the equation. Stick to the component cable's which work all the time. As for component cables being "BS" on quality, get a grip, or get a new tv which supports a straight hdmi input.
     
  3. Kusanagi6913 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #3
    1st of all it seems to "sound to you" EXACTLY as I stated it...I'm using a HDMI to DVI cable--which is HDTV (last time I checked) and is recommended on Apple's site for use with Apple TV (Belkin cables no less--just like the ones they sold me for use on the Apple TV--HMMMM). If this was going to be an issue--I would expect a very clear message stating that HD content will not be supported via DVI. Second of all, was any of the smart ass commentary necessary? Composite cables are "BS" vs a high end DVI (was that even a question from you?). And, how about you let Apple worry about if it's an Apple problem--considering I paid for it, they didn't advertise an anti-DVI problem, they sold me cables they recommended and yeah so--they kind of do need to explain why it works for everything else and did work at the start and only recently became a problem via the last update.

    Can someone else provide any workarounds for this?? I'd like to know if I need to revert to original Apple TV software or if this is clearly an issue with the new code? Thanks to non-irritating responses.

    Any other responses would be appreciated than 'downinitjr' since he is clearly wanting me to "get a grip"
     
  4. VTMac macrumors 6502

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    Jun 9, 2008
    #4
    I'm not aware of any HDMI 2 DVI workarounds with regards to the lovely DRM crap they put on the HD content. To the best of my knowledge, all HD files have that DRM and hence all versions of the AppleTV software still supporting HD files enforce the DRM. Because an HDMI cable is connected on the AppleTV side it assumes the device on the other side (your TV) can support the necessary HDMI specs. Obviously it can't since your using DVI.

    So I'm pretty sure it's component or nothing. Good luck.
     
  5. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

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    #5
    Apple TV can only support an HDMI to DVI connection if your HDTV supports HDCP over DVI.

    There are no workarounds. If your HDTV does not support HDCP, you're going to have to use component video or downgrade to the 1.x firmware.

    Apple mentions this in the "fine print" on the Apple TV specification Web site.
    http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html

    It also mentioned explicitly in the iTunes EULA that you clicked "agree" to.

    Does this suck? Absolutely yes, but it's a requirement of the movie studios. They don't want you making a perfect bit-for-bit copy of your rental or purchase.
     
  6. Kusanagi6913 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #6
    VTMAC and jaw04005

    THANK YOU. I appreciate very straightforward responses as it was driving me crazy and I found downititjr'r responses to be juvenile--"just upgrade your TV" given this economy is a ridiculously rude comment.

    Let's be clear--DVI WAS SUPPORTED at the launch of :apple:TV. Clearly, it's STILL capable of doing so now (I just watched Hellboy 2 in HD rental after switching from Component for a few tries) but it's not doing it consistently anymore. Yes, it is listed on the rentals albeit, it's NOT listed on the box when you buy it (which is certainly more necessary--that's like buying an Xbox 360 and not having it tell you it will not play PS3's -- which is clearly stated on box, in game manuals and by all sales people via all retailers). So, the fine print on a website and last second mention on rentals are nice but clearly a 'gotcha' after spending $200+ bucks.

    Regardless, I'm obviously disappointed and will continue to ask Apple (I've not used the Applecare card yet) and find out if I can simply go back to previous software firmware and use it without worrying about any crucial 'musts'.

    That said, I know it's the very silly film studios' fault (so sad that those of us who play by the rules and purchase our content digitally and legally must suffer lame restrictions--did DVI hurt them that badly??) and not Apple's per se but still they could do a better job advising of their limitations on the :apple:TV. It's very easy to get ticked off considering the device is not exactly a top seller of Apple's and to deceive those of us who would give it a go based on the box and common sense just bothers me ethically.

    Thanks again fellow Mac-users.
     
  7. lostless macrumors 6502

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    Oct 22, 2005
    #7
    In all honesty, component does not look that much worse than dvi/hdmi. this coming from someone who has played my xbox 360 with both very recently. (Just exchanged my xbox for an hdmi one). I can hardly, if at all, tell the difference at proper viewing distance. Of course close up HDMI has a slightly more detailed image, but even then its hard to tell. The only downfall of component is bandwidth. At 1080i and lower, it looks very good. At 1080P it struggles unless you have some good cables. Since your tv is older, i doubt it will support 1080P over component. So try the component connection and see if you like it. It will solve your issue.
     
  8. mshepherd macrumors regular

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    Feb 29, 2004
    #8
    my parents ran into this problem on there vizio 42" tv, they are using only hdmi. is hdcp only on hd content? or is it on all? they have rented many movies on the apple tv without this problem.
     
  9. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

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    #9
    You're welcome, but you should really edit your "neck" comments as they are likely a violation of our forum rules. We're a friendly, non-violent community. :D

    http://guides.macrumors.com/Help:Forum_Rules

    I'm confused. Did you purchase an "old stock" Apple TV that came with firmware 1.x? It should be mentioned on the new boxes (likely in very small print that you can barely read). Firmware 1.x didn't even have the ability to rent movies. Therefore, its box wouldn't have any mention of HDCP.

    By the way, I just downloaded the new Apple TV manual available here: http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/AppleTV_SetupGuide.pdf and it doesn't mention HDCP either.

    I guess Apple figures component is enough.
     
  10. Peace macrumors P6

    Peace

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    #10
    There is no HDCP protocol on DVI. DVI only carries a video signal and no audio. HDCP is used on audio and video.

    HDMI carries the HDCP that is used to handshake between the player and the HD TV.

    You can use a toslink cable to carry the audio to a stereo system that has a digital audio input.

    It sounds like the op's tv has DVI and composite input only. No component input. If you had a component input for the TV you could use the toslink for audio.

    Unfortunately you have one of the "almost" HDTV's they sold a couple of years ago.
     
  11. Scandals macrumors member

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    Canada
    #11
    This is somewhat incorrect. Yes, DVI only carries video, but DVI can and does support HDCP. I had a Sony WEGA HDTV that worked perfectly fine with HDCP devices, even when connecting HDMI to DVI (it only had a DVI input). Your specific TV or display may not support HDCP (many DVI computer displays do not), but that doesn't mean that DVI does not support HDCP. Check the specs with your device manufacturer.

    Hope that helps clarify things.
     
  12. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

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    #12
    You're incorrect. There are many devices (particularly computer monitors) that support HDCP over DVI.

    "High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP) is a form of digital copy protection developed by Intel Corporation to prevent copying of digital audio and video content as it travels across DisplayPort, Digital Visual Interface (DVI), High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI), Gigabit Video Interface (GVIF), or Unified Display Interface (UDI) connections, even if such copying would be permitted by fair use laws."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP
     
  13. Kusanagi6913 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Jun 10, 2008
    #13
    Thanks again Jaw and I did edit that piece although I would imagine my point was clearly sarcastic (if not bitingly so). That said, I didn't purchase an old unit, it was a recent one and included ability to rent right out of the box just didn't have the fall 08 update installed.

    Please allow me to correct you because I think you do not do Apple any favors by offering opportunities as to where this information should be listed. To be clear, It's not written on the box anywhere--I assume you mean the legalese (which is technically where language of this sort should go) and it is not-- not in the part about movie rentals (logical) nor the part about requirements to operate (must have).

    So, this seems pretty past clear Apple's mistake.


    At worst, it's negligence (you don't offer software upgrades to change the original working paradigm of a product where capability is diminished). I mean, Apple didn't have to take the right away and the right was there for use on all HDTV's or HDTV compliant products--but the fact that they did is silly--it would be like you purchasing a car and the next day being told it not longer runs on gas but must instead use positive thought (and then you post about it and some idiot tells you to just buy a new car- lol).

    At best, Apple didn't know they were doing this and I'll wait until Tues to see if an update is announced to fix this mistake based on my and I assume many Americans displeasure. I don't expect this to happen given that they are clearly moving their product line to mini-display status to support HDCP for film studios and to corner their own market on monitors.

    And to answer the other posts-- Jaw is right--people please stop the attack on HDTV monitors as being less HD with DVI--it's an option--not the holy grail but an option. It doesn't make it less HD because it's DVI--I've watched plenty of High definition content with excellent visual clarity on my other monitors which also have Apple machines--this is just robbery on film studios parts to limit what Americans use due to supposed fear of digital terrorism of their precious overpriced film product.

    Lastly, there is most certainly a difference on my TV with component cables versus DVI. The crispness, line definition, color separation and overall picture quality are like night and day. To most, yeah--component is fine. To those of us who care about visual acuity-- HD is only HD with proper signal translation which means DVI, HDMI and so on. Maybe my component cables suck--I dunno..but picture is different.
     
  14. killmoms macrumors 68040

    killmoms

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    Jun 23, 2003
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    Washington, DC
    #14
    Why? Because you didn't understand how HDCP works?

    They didn't take anything away, they just implemented HDCP content protection at the behest of the studios—if they hadn't, they wouldn't have gotten the major studios to sign on board to rent movies at all.

    Apple knew exactly what they were doing—the onus is on you to be aware of the capabilities of the hardware you're using with your Apple TV. And I doubt there are very "many Americans" using Apple TV. As for cornering the market on monitors... I'm not sure what you're driving at here. DisplayPort is the next interface for ALL monitors for computers. Apple's Mini DisplayPort connector is just a shrunken connector, available for free licensing to anyone who wants to make cables/laptops/etc.

    This isn't an attack on DVI, but the problem is very clearly that your television doesn't support HDCP over DVI—which isn't your fault, exactly, but the pace of change in this industry is rapid. Should DVHS deck purchasers be somehow reimbursed for investing in a failed technology? HD DVD owners? Early HDTV owners who had NO digital inputs whatsoever? The fact is HDCP is here to stay, and has been a known quantity for years. The movie studios got bitten by Internet piracy and are doing what they can to try to protect their content. You can argue about whether it's working or not (I'd say it is, to a point, but it's not stopping the truly committed/knowledgeable), but like it or not it's here to stay.

    I certainly believe that—especially if your component cables are crap.
     
  15. Kusanagi6913 thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Jun 10, 2008
    #15
    Nice name for yourself--;) HDCP is understood well by me just like your sarcasm but the point is that it's not appreciated for something that wasn't advised about prior to purchase.


    Son, I work in the industry and do not require a lesson on corporate tactics from a kid with a name like yours. Likewise, film studio support comes and goes or have you not been watching Apple's movie lists change like the wind--Harry Potter's there one day--gone the next. If you think that this was the be all end all to film studio requests then you're unfamilar with Apple's continuing battle with music studios. The bottom line here is--do what you have to do but make it clear from the get go--people knew about Apple's DRM practices and hence didn't buy iPods. It's very simple. Tell people. I'm telling people via this post since Apple is not. Or did you think the EU sued Apple over DRM practices for kicks? Grow up.


    Again, you are being sarcastic. Sadly for you you are gravely mistaken. The onus is most certainly on Apple. Again, not to be rude but you clearly know nothing about corporate politics, ethics or anything dealing with consumer protection laws. Let's be clear--there is a reason Sony goes so far to tell people that only PS3 games will work on a PS3 system AND that a Pizza will not (lol--look it up). There are not many Americans using :apple:TV's proportionately--but there are many Americans using them of those who bought them. I cannot speak for Canada, Europe and so on--thus why the statement was made. Lastly, 'corner the market' as in must purchase or purchase an adapter for your monitor of choice. What part of business do you not understand? This has nothing to do with licensing for tech companies dude. Who worries about tech licensing issues when they are buying a product? But if I'm a parent buying my family a computer and want to use all those neat things they show on the Apple commercial--it's going to be harsh when I get home and plan to hook it up to my own monitor but --- I'm willing to bet Apple will tell me then and there that it must use an adapter or buy a specific monitor from them. Smart business on their end (I am not attacking Apple making money--I own stock)--Apple TV though is not being done that way and for all of your smart ass comments--that's the point that matters to most people who want to use the product and do not have all of the product elements in place.

    I totally agree with you for once. I do believe that the pace of change has occurred rapidly and I do not fault technology's advance. I likewise agree that movie studios are under threat. That said, I do not believe the tactics (again--I said very clearly at the start that I purchase and rent movies legally..was one of the 1st to do so and still own dozens of crappy low quality iPod flicks from iTunes early days including Zoolander ;) are ethical. We can debate strategy--I know 1st hand the problems but fact of the matter is that what Apple did in not informing consumers is wrong. For a company who touted push and then recanted? Who recanted on battery replacements for iPods and a ton more stuff--why do people try so hard to defend actions which are indefensible? If this was you and something you purchased didn't work or forced you to upgrade in a particularly silly way I'd imagined you'd be pissed. Or maybe not..but for most of us--we demand companies act with some common sense. Apple wants to change a box after it shipped--fine, just be clear about it on your box--I don't care if it's a damn sticker--they just need to be clear. "Times changed, our discussions with film studios suck--therefore..better have a new HDTV if you want this to work as advertised or otherwise it won't unless you use lesser connections. Peace out." Not hard is it?

    People reading this post are now clear about :apple:TV
     
  16. mshepherd macrumors regular

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    Feb 29, 2004
    #16
    does anyone know if hdcp is on all rental movies or only HD movies? also, is there a way to tell before you rent a movie if it has hdcp?
     
  17. Peace macrumors P6

    Peace

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    #17
    you forgot the most important part of that quote :

    "For DVI interfaces, HDCP is optional"

    http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx?c=7#25
     
  18. jaw04005 macrumors 601

    jaw04005

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    #18
    I intentionally left that out, as it implies HDCP is required for HDMI as part of the specification. It's not. After all, there was no HDCP in version 1.x of the Apple TV firmware.

    I have several PC video cards that have HDMI, but don't use HDCP (and therefore don't work natively with Blu-ray players on Windows).

    Kusanagi6913, I have a non-HDCP compliant HDTV with DVI-in only that I will try this weekend. I thought non-HDCP compliant devices could view everything the Apple TV has to offer except rentals. I'll test and let you know. I know in the early releases of the 2.x firmware, I received the "Your TV doesn't support HDCP" message, when it fact it did (HDMI to HDMI). The Apple TV just required a reboot or in some cases I could just press "Play" and it would then start.
     
  19. askthedust macrumors regular

    askthedust

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    #19
    wall-e

    was using hdmi cable with my apple tv since 2007 and never had this problem till i purchased wall-e.

    then the hdcp error came up. switch to component cables and plays fine now. slightly lower quality noticeable at first.

    kinda silly.
     
  20. Rich1963 macrumors 6502

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    Jul 18, 2008
    #20
    Whats funny about this whole conversation is that I distinctly remember when the HDMI with HDCP spec was rolled out, the FCC wasn't so hot about it for this exact reason (non-compatible with DVI and HDMI errors resulting in no picture). When the major manufacturers and studios submitted a white paper about it to the FCC, there was initially a specific gaurantee in there that if the monitor was not HDCP compliant, that the HDMI connection would be throttled back to 480p on the output device.

    Thus, everyone was happy, and the project moved forward. Funny, I fail to see that ending up in the final product. Strange how that happened.
     
  21. FearlessFreep macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Well, this is pretty a make-or-break for me. I've been thinking of getting an ATV but I have an older gen Samsung DLP with DVI-HDCP. The specs *say* that it is HDCP compliant and compatible with HDMI. I use component for satellite and have the Wii hooked up to the other available component input. I have had a HTPC hooked up with the DVI and was thinking of ditching that for ATV.

    Is anyone successfully using ATV with a DVI-HDCP input?
     
  22. Rich1963 macrumors 6502

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    #22
    There was a device someone mentioned and linked on this forum that was an HDMI to DVI dongle that actively stripped the HDCP out of the stream and the company claimed it was legal (life advice - DO NOT take legal advise from a website sighting a half sentence of IP content law). The company noted it was compatible with the AppleTV and specifically produced for people in a situation sans HDMI ports. Can't remember the name, though.
     
  23. xraydoc macrumors demi-god

    xraydoc

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    #23
    Just to chime in... one of my Apple TVs is connected to a cheap Vizio 720P plasma via an HDMI-to-DVI cable with stereo audio routed via analog RCA cables. The TV supports HDCP over DVI and plays iTunes purchased HD content without trouble.
     
  24. rockstar1971 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2010
    #24
    Problem solved

    You need to buy the HDFury2 which converts and strips the signal. I just got it for my apple TV gen 2 and it is working fine. No issues. Component cable is not obsolete with projection TVs where long runs of wire is required. Good luck - I hope this solves your issue.
     

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