Help me convince friends that Apple is not EVIL!

Discussion in 'Apple, Inc and Tech Industry' started by ap11euser, Nov 2, 2011.

  1. ap11euser macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    #1
    Friends of mine who already own an iMac and iPhone are concerned that Apple is not the nicest company. This has been furthered by the following email from their son who is a PC tech.

    Please read the email below and let me know what you think.

    Here is the information I was referring to the other day. Please keep
    in mind, it's not just their manufacturing process I am critical of.
    It's their data centers, their business practices, their philosophy
    and more. As you will see, they give little to no thought about the
    greater good.
    Artices on Foxxcon (the company that makes all of their products):
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-look-inside-the-Foxconn-suicide-factory.html
    http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/19/undercover-chinese-reporter-exposes-foxconn-working-conditions/
    A couple of months ago, three employees were killed from an explosion
    while making iPad 2s due to poor safety regulations. Sure Apple
    doesn't set the safety regulations at Foxxcon, but they keep hiring
    them to make their products when they could go with a company that
    costs more (downside) , but treats their employees like people and
    saves lives (upside).
    On Steve Jobs philanthropy:
    http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mac/commentary/cultofmac/2006/01/70072
    http://www.cultofmac.com/does-steve-jobs-care-about-global-poverty/45509
    A quote from an artice from Business Insider:
    He doesn’t give any money to charity. And when he became Apple’s CEO
    he stopped all of their philanthropic programs. He said, “wait until
    we are profitable”. Now they are profitable, and sitting on $40bb
    cash, and still not corporate philanthropy.
    Green Apples? I Don't think so:
    http://www.greenpeace.org/internati...rt-digs-up-the-dirt-on-Internet-data-centres/
    Highlights from this article:

    The $1 Billion (USD) Apple iData Center in North Carolina, expected to
    open this spring, will consume as much as 100 MW of electricity,
    equivalent to the electricity usage of approximately 80,000 homes in
    the U.S. or over a quarter million in the E.U.. The surrounding energy
    grid has less than 5 percent clean energy, with the remaining 95
    percent coming from dirty, dangerous sources like coal and nuclear.
    Both Yahoo! and Google seem to understand the importance of a
    renewable energy supply, with Yahoo! siting most of its data centres
    near sources of renewable energy, and Google is directly signing power
    purchasing agreements for renewable energy and investing in solar and
    wind energy projects in many US states as well as Germany. Their
    models should be employed and improved upon by other Internet ("cloud
    computing") companies.

    Apple named "least green tech company"
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/apr/21/apple-least-green-tech-company
    On top of all of this (and there is a lot more) their entire
    philosophy is about closed environments. They don't share their code
    (most companies do). Everything they do is locked down and kept
    internally. Sure it's their right to do that if they want, but you
    have no idea how much you benefit on a day to day basis from things
    that were created by companies and released to the Open Source
    community. Apple is closed, most companies are open. It's hard to
    explain to you being a non-techie, but it's really sad, unfortunate
    and significant.
    They are anti "anything not nice", it's their definition of what's not
    nice, and they keep moving the goal post. They have removed
    dictionaries from their app store because you can look up swear words
    in them. They advertise how there is no porn on Apple products, then
    three months later released a Playboy App. They have removed pro
    homosexuality apps, but left an app on their store for weeks that let
    you simulate shaking a baby to death.
    Instead of making better products and innovating they sue companies
    that compete with them using sleezy tactics like altering evidence
    (Source)
    As you can see, my dislike for them is multifaceted. They just aren't
    a "nice" company. While Google and Microsoft donate millions to
    charities and schools, Apple donates nothing... NOTHING! Not a penny.
    Bill Gates left Microsoft to start the Bill and Melinda Gates
    Foundation where they have donated hundreds of millions of dollars to
    end malaria and other causes. Bill Gates has sworn to donate 95% of
    his fortune to charity before he dies. It was speculated that maybe
    Steve Jobs (having not donated anything in life) would make a large
    donation after death. We now know (with his recent passing) that
    didn't happen. No, companies and people don't HAVE to donate money,
    time, resources, technology or man hours to charities, but wouldn't
    you rather deal with a company that does?
    Google has their Global Disaster Alert and Coordination System that
    they have used to help save countless lives. This was started by their
    employees in their free time and then picked up and supported fully by
    Google. This costs them MILLIONS to run, but they do it free of
    charge. After earthquakes, floods, tsunamis etc they actually move
    satellites around to give rescue teams up to date images of the area.
    They offer the people finder service so family can be reunited with
    loved ones and the list goes on and on.

    They offer free virtual phone numbers to homeless people that they can
    use form library computers to help them get jobs because it's very
    hard to get a job without providing a phone number. They offer
    millions in scholarships to help educate underprivileged kids. They
    were one of the first companies to offer marital benefits to same sex
    couples employed by them even if the state didn't recognize the union.
    They were one of the first companies to officially support and march
    in the Pride parade. The list goes on and on and on and on and on.
    Apple does non of this. Yes they make sexy products, but they just
    aren't a good company, and I can't support that.
    Hope this helps.
     
  2. boss.king macrumors 68040

    boss.king

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    Apr 8, 2009
    #2
    Well, they aren't the nicest company. They aren't the worst, but they are by no means out to help people. They are out to make a profit.
     
  3. Silencio macrumors 68020

    Silencio

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2002
    Location:
    NYC
    #3
    Good luck to them finding any hardware or software company that's "nice". :rolleyes:

    Good luck to them finding a hardware company that doesn't contract out to Foxconn, either.
     
  4. Dnix macrumors 6502

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    Dec 9, 2010
    #4
    Every corporation is mean. Apple is mean, but they do it with style! :eek:
     
  5. Neolithium macrumors 6502a

    Neolithium

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    Wherever the army needs me.
    #5
    Considering what other companies have done in the name of profits, Apple isn't that bad.
     
  6. ap11euser thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    #6
    thanks guys !

    Personally I think there is a dark side to pretty much anything made in china or some other countries. But really my macbook pro is going to last way longer than any other pc laptop I could have bought, and when I am done I will take it to the Apple store to drop it off to be recycled or I can actually sell it.
     
  7. MacDawg macrumors P6

    MacDawg

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    Location:
    "Between the Hedges"
    #7
    I see your friend's son believes in recycling :)
    All of this is very old news and has been discussed, reposted and rehashed around the internet for a long time
    Nothing new here, just your garden variety Apple bashing
     
  8. ap11euser thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2011
    #8
    Thanks MacDawg,

    should have really just used the search but thought I would get some first hand opinions on the letter.
     
  9. *LTD*, Nov 2, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    #9
    There's nothing to convince them about in the first place.

    Good/evil absolutes don't apply here. This isn't LOTR.

    They make tech products. You either buy them or you don't. They either act within the limits of prescribed law or they don't.

    You buy an iPad based on its particular characteristics and how it fits into your life, not on whether Apple likes puppies.
     
  10. anotonin macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    #10
    I can't.

    Apple is suing a small German cafe for its logo has an apple.

    http://tech.blorge.com/Structure: /2011/10/22/is-apfelkinds-apple-a-ripped-off-apple-logo/

     
  11. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #11
    I feel personally, that Apple is becoming the Evil Empire that Microsoft was. Especially when they go suing anyone in sight. But I'm sure my opinion will be anecdotal. :rolleyes:
     
  12. *LTD*, Nov 3, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
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    Canada
    #12
    1) Apple has always been litigious. From Day 1. Everyone is free to file a legal claim. If someone's IP cannot withstand legal tests, the legitimacy of their IP is questionable in the first place.

    2) Apple has not been convicted of any crimes under anti-trust law.



    It takes a lot to get to this point:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

    Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates was called "evasive and nonresponsive" by a source present at a session in which Gates was questioned on his deposition.[2] He argued over the definitions of words such as "compete", "concerned", "ask", and "we".[3] BusinessWeek reported, "Early rounds of his deposition show him offering obfuscatory answers and saying 'I don't recall' so many times that even the presiding judge had to chuckle.

    Worse, many of the technology chief's denials and pleas of ignorance have been directly refuted by prosecutors with snippets of E-mail Gates both sent and received."[4] Intel Vice-President Steven McGeady, called as a witness, quoted Paul Maritz, a senior Microsoft vice president as having stated an intention to "extinguish" and "smother" rival Netscape Communications Corporation and to "cut off Netscape's air supply" by giving away a clone of Netscape's flagship product for free. The Microsoft executive denied the allegations.[5]

    A number of videotapes were submitted as evidence by Microsoft during the trial, including one that demonstrated that removing Internet Explorer from Microsoft Windows caused slowdowns and malfunctions in Windows.

    In the videotaped demonstration of what Microsoft vice president James Allchin's stated to be a seamless segment filmed on one PC, the plaintiff noticed that some icons mysteriously disappear and reappear on the PC's desktop, suggesting that the effects might have been falsified.[6] Allchin admitted that the blame for the tape problems lay with some of his staff "They ended up filming it -- grabbing the wrong screen shot," he said of the incident.

    Later, Allchin re-ran the demonstration and provided a new videotape, but in so doing Microsoft dropped the claim that Windows is slowed down when Internet Explorer is removed. Mark Murray, a Microsoft spokesperson, berated the government attorneys for "nitpicking on issues like video production."[7] Microsoft submitted a second inaccurate videotape into evidence later the same month as the first. The issue in question was how easy or hard it was for America Online users to download and install Netscape Navigator onto a Windows PC. Microsoft's videotape showed the process as being quick and easy, resulting in the Netscape icon appearing on the user's desktop.

    The government produced its own videotape of the same process, revealing that Microsoft's videotape had conveniently removed a long and complex part of the procedure and that the Netscape icon was not placed on the desktop, requiring a user to search for it. Brad Chase, a Microsoft vice president, verified the government's tape and conceded that Microsoft's own tape was falsified.
    [8]

    Abuse of monopoly, lying (or perjury, provided they were under oath), presenting false evidence in court, etc.

    Sorry. Apple is *nothing* like Microsoft. Nothing they've done to date even approaches that.

    Because they don't need to resort to anything like that.

    Apart from that, testing the competition's IP (and by virtue, Apple's IP) in court is hardly anticompetitive, or more laughably, "evil." It's exercising their right to submit a problem to the courts. Just like it is anyone's right.

    But some people like living in the land of "maybes" and "could be's" and "good" and "evil." Do Frodo and Gandalf run Apple or something? :confused:
     
  13. anotonin macrumors member

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #13
    Keep telling yourself that. I love it when people quote the wikipedia. A bountiful knowledge in all of internet land.
     
  14. *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    Canada
    #14
    Except it's all true. Happy reading, though.
     
  15. macinnv macrumors regular

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    Jan 17, 2011
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #15
    I dont Apple as evil. Of course Apple's main goal in existence is to profit, just like any other company. As a result of their success they have created a lot of jobs, helped a lot of entrepenuers start businesses and saved the music industry from pirating.
     
  16. Daffodil macrumors 6502

    Daffodil

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    Jun 7, 2011
    Location:
    In a sunny state of mind
    #16
    While I think terms like evil are a little over the top for something like a tech company, as a corporation, its main purpose is making money, so when the do not-so-nice stuff, I'm not terribly surprised...
     
  17. anotonin macrumors member

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #17
    Only if you quote wikipedia again and put it here. Then I'll be able to read it. :)
     
  18. MrMoore macrumors 6502

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    Arlington Heights,IL
    #18
  19. anotonin macrumors member

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #19
    Thanks, Mr. Moore. This is informative. I may have found some more lawsuits filed to these computer companies including Apple and Adobe. Thanks again for the link. :)



    Though I assume people know Wikipedia can be edited by anyone. As in, anyone.
     
  20. *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

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    Feb 5, 2009
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    Canada
    #20
    Are you going to prosecute? :rolleyes:

    ----------

    Whatever. Everyone knows the facts of the DOJ/MS case. It's been over a decade. What I posted wasn't exactly news.
     
  21. anotonin macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2011
    #21
    Why? Should I? I just said its informative and most of all, a legitimate source. And man, these computer companies have lots of lawsuits. I mean, lots!



    Aw, sorry for pointing out the flaw of Wikipedia, BB. *hugs*
     
  22. *LTD*, Nov 5, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2011

    *LTD* macrumors G4

    *LTD*

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2009
    Location:
    Canada
    #22
    It almost seems out of the ordinary if there aren't! And the funny thing is, as we see more companies diversify and spread out into different markets, we'll just see more and more of this.

    *hugs* returned. All better now. ;)
     
  23. anotonin macrumors member

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    Oct 19, 2011
    #23
    Awww, :):)
     
  24. roadbloc macrumors G3

    roadbloc

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    Aug 24, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #24
    Can you guys please flirt/pollinate elsewhere please? This is serious business. ;)
     
  25. AppleScruff1 macrumors G3

    AppleScruff1

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