Help me decide - I love OSX and Gaming

[simsaladimbamba]

As for the Hackintosh part:

I have had five or so Macs since 2004 (iBook, iMac, MacBook, 15" MacBook Pro, 17" MacBook Pro) and still use the iMac (2007 model) and 17" MBP (2009) model.

Since I wanted a beefier machine for my video editing needs at home, I looked into the iMacs and Mac minis, the Mac mini lacked a dedicated GPU and the iMac has a glossy display and hardly any upgrade options. The Mac Pro is a bit outdated (though I do not mind that particular issue) but would be the best option, but it lacked the number of HDDs I can use with it and GPUs (in a way) and it was still too expensive for a new model, even the base one.

Therefore I considered for several weeks building a Hackintosh and finally plunged into buying the parts (i7 3770K Ivy Bridge CPU, Asus GTX670 GPU, Samsung 840 256 GB SSD, 16 GB RAM from Corsair (still room for another 16 GB), Gigabyte UD3H motherboard (the UP5 TH is my favourite but hard to get here not online) and a Fractal R4 case (not the prettiest, but room for 8 or 10 HDDs)). All in all it cost 1,250 €, I would have gone to 1,500 €, and since I already had a good monitor and will probably add another one later, it was the better buy for my needs.

As for the actual Hackintosh part, it has become easier since 10.8, since every new update already has the proper drivers, and Multibeast (the "installer" for drivers by TonyMacX86) does a good work. I struggled a bit at first, but that was due to my stupidity and not willing to try the command line. I got over it and I have to say, my Hack runs quite well without any problems.
It is not for the faint of heart, but if one has the time (a week or so to research parts and installation, two hours to build, one or two hours for the installation) it can be done, and if one properly backups the successful install, one can always return to a working setup in a matter of an hour via cloning and such.

Anyway, I am happy with my choice, I just wish more applications could take advantage of multiple cores and threads like C4D does. Even FCP X is not really being that good or Avid MC 6.5 or many others (still stay away from Premiere Pro since it became "Pro").

Ah, and to gaming, my setup can play those games quite well, via Windows on another dedicated SSD or HDD.

 

[mslide]

but i'd like to be able to play the latest games on maxed at 1080p.

I can't believe people are actually suggesting the OP buy a max'd iMac, especially when he already has a very expensive laptop. Did none of you read this?

1080p gaming is easy. Forget about a max'd iMac or a Mac Pro. That's just throwing money down the drain if all you care about is 1080p and a Mac Pro just for gaming is always a great way to throw money away. You don't need a powerhouse to do that. Just a decent computer with a somewhat decent GPU.

I assume you're keeping your current MBP. Given that, a hackintosh just for gaming is also stupid because you'll be running windows most of the time.

That leaves B) and C). I'd go with B because your current computer should be fine for gaming. I don't understand your "too hot for games" comment. Is it or is it not overheating? There's a difference between warm and overheating. Is it too hot for your lap? Then put it on a desk. I mean, you're already talking about desktop options anyway.

If you really want a powerful desktop gaming computer, then a gaming PC is the best option. Really. The sooner you accept the fact that PC gaming is best done with Windows, the happier you'll be. We're just talking about gaming here. The only interaction with Windows you'll be doing is double-clicking on the appropriate icon. It's not that bad. Plus, you won't have to worry about a $2500 iMac not being able to play the latest games in 3 years because all you'll have to do with your PC is replace the GPU.

 

[Sech]

I am sad to say I've struggled with this for a while and tried many solutions (rMBP 15, iMac27), I finally settled on keeping my rMBP and built a gaming PC. It does work great and offers the best of both worlds and allows me to be mobile when needed. I'd be lying if I told you there aren't times I wish I had kept the iMac but I know it wasn't the right solution for me at this time.

 

[luffytubby]

I am sad to say I've struggled with this for a while and tried many solutions (rMBP 15, iMac27), I finally settled on keeping my rMBP and built a gaming PC. It does work great and offers the best of both worlds and allows me to be mobile when needed. I'd be lying if I told you there aren't times I wish I had kept the iMac but I know it wasn't the right solution for me at this time.

Exactly, I've been there too man.
I think the problem is that we want the ultimate all-in-one-device. Which makes sense. I believe clutter in our lives keeps us down, from small practal things like having power cords, manuals, dust and so on settle everywhere, to larger ones going on the; "the things you own, end up owning you" thought process.



The OP want the iMac, which is understandable. He wants the sexyness, the awesomeness. The seamless endless possibilities, and thus he forgets about the issues of tomorrow.
His irrationality towards hating Windows is also stupid. Windows is needed for bootcamp, so his "ewww no" idea wont work.



Building a a good gaming rig can be rewarding and beautiful. you can find the right chassis, you can remove things from windows that makes it feel less silly, you can make it more like a Mac with rainskin, and if you get Windows 7, it works flawlessly.



The ideal solution to the OPs problem would be if iMac supported MXM technology. but there is very few that use that, unfortunately.

 

[wilds94]

I assume you're keeping your current MBP.

Nah, i'll be selling my rMBP to afford this iMac. In my mind it's not really suiting my needs and it's just sitting on my desk plugged into a second monitor, keyboard, mouse and speakers. I rarely take it off the desk, but my hope is that i'll buy a 13" refresh of the rMBP at the end of the year to suit my portable needs (Work will pay for half of it).

That leaves B) and C). I'd go with B because your current computer should be fine for gaming. I don't understand your "too hot for games" comment. Is it or is it not overheating? There's a difference between warm and overheating. Is it too hot for your lap? Then put it on a desk. I mean, you're already talking about desktop options anyway.

I think i should give it another go with bootcamp on this thing. My computer wasn't overheating to the point of a forced shut down, but playing games like Skyrim and other games it gets really hot, too hot too touch for more than a split second, and the fans run very loudly. I'm going to give this another shot because i have take the computer into a service centre since then and they did some things such as installing newer firmware and other things. I know this wouldn't do much to the windows partition but theres always a chance. If it can run BF3 at medium at 45fps then that's not so bad, i'll have to see to find out.

If you really want a powerful desktop gaming computer, then a gaming PC is the best option. Really. The sooner you accept the fact that PC gaming is best done with Windows, the happier you'll be. We're just talking about gaming here. The only interaction with Windows you'll be doing is double-clicking on the appropriate icon. It's not that bad. Plus, you won't have to worry about a $2500 iMac not being able to play the latest games in 3 years because all you'll have to do with your PC is replace the GPU.

I guess what i'm really looking for is a workhorse computer that can run both windows and OSX. I've come too the decision of an iMac because if what everyone is saying is true, and in 1, 2 or 3 years i does become underpowered, the resale value is good enough for me to put in a couple of hundred, sell it, and buy the latest, or maybe even at that time buy a Mac Pro.

I guess what the main thing for me now is too see what the iMac's graphics card is like stacked up against some of the mid to high end graphics cards out at the moment, apparently the GTX 680MX comparable to a GTX 660ti?

 

[luffytubby]

Download FRAPS (it's free). You'll see you're nowhere near 60fps solid at 1440p maxed out without AA. People have different tolerances to frame rate, which is why I bring this up.

I'll like to note that you really need a high FPS in games like BF3, because the details and explosions clutter the screen so much, that you will have a bad time if your not up in the minimum 40-preferely fps.


A game like Crysis 1 could be played comfortable at around 20-ish fps, due to heavy use of motion blur and the way the gameplay was. for multiplayer BF3 you need it smooth, for sure.

 

[wilds94]

The OP want the iMac, which is understandable. He wants the sexyness, the awesomeness. The seamless endless possibilities, and thus he forgets about the issues of tomorrow.
His irrationality towards hating Windows is also stupid. Windows is needed for bootcamp, so his "ewww no" idea wont work.

I've built a few gaming computers in the past, and i've used windows and worked in retail selling windows computers for the last 5 years. I've dealt with countless situations of viruses, bloatware, missing system files causing an issue with someones computer, something that would never happen with OSX. I think i've already outlined that i've used bootcamp in the past and intend too use it in the future, and have already understood that it's going to have to be that way.

Building a a good gaming rig can be rewarding and beautiful. you can find the right chassis, you can remove things from windows that makes it feel less silly, you can make it more like a Mac with rainskin, and if you get Windows 7, it works flawlessly.

I think the biggest thing for me is having all my eggs in one basket. The idea of building a gaming computer is becoming more attractive though, and i do love the idea of having 2 computers side by side (games on one and facebook, music, downloads and work on the other). I think i'm going for the leaning towards the iMac because the extra money i'm putting into what will be partly a gaming machine, will also mean a better machine for everything else i do on the computer. If i can build a gaming computer for cheap enough, that might be the way too go, and keep my rMBP.

 

[cosmicjoke]

Need help and information on deciding which is right for me.

I want to PC game, not at the highest fanatical end of PC gaming, but i'd like to be able to play the latest games on maxed at 1080p. I already have a rMBP 15" that runs quite hot, too hot for me to play games comfortably, but that may be because i'm running them off of a portable HDD because my SSD is only 256gb.
I do miss having a powerful workhorse desktop, but i am also jealous of my brother and his friends playing games on their windows laptops, which are half the price and still seem to be able to play games better than my rMBP. I don't mind spending a bit of money to get what i want; a computer that will do OSX and gaming quite well.'

So far i see my options as:

A) Maxed out 27" iMac with my own RAM in there. This is so far my favourite but theres mixed opinions out there on the quality of the GTX 680MX and and the fusion drive and even after hours of research i still find myself clueless on wether it will be able to play the latest PC games on 1080p at 60FPS, without being too hot or fans going nuts.

B) Buy a much bigger SSD for my rMBP and just running boot camp on that. Maybe having the games installed on my HDD may make the computer comparable too my friends gaming laptops, or maybe the Retina screen makes it struggle . Either way, if i could game well on this somehow, it would be a nice option, but expensive.

C) Build a gaming computer. I love OSX and use it every day and it's hard for me to justify building a computer to run windows just for gaming when i really hate windows. It isn't a bad option though, and i'm attracted to the idea of a powerful and cheaper machine but it would be better if it also ran OSX. which is my next option;

D) Build a Hackintosh. I love a challenge, and i love the idea of having the power of a custom built PC with the best gaming and the best OS, but is it too difficult? I don't know.

E) Buy a Mac Pro and throw a few more HDDs and a much better graphics card in there and run boot camp on it. Also love this idea, but who knows how it would work.

Either way, I am a computer nerd at heart and i miss having a workhorse desktop (sold my very old gaming PC when i got my first Macbook Air before my current rMBP). If the iMac is actually a workhorse, and haters are just bagging it because they hate apple, it might the best option. Please everyone, throw your opinions, suggestions, information, links at me to better help me make the right decision. You may have realised now i get a bit obsessed over things, and i think this forums is the best place to come for decent advice, so thanks in advance,

Will.

imac - don't do it if you want 60fps max settings on latest games, it's a 680mx that ranks between a desktop gtx 660/660ti on a 1440p panel, ain't gonna happen with many games. even a desktop gtx 680 doesn't guarantee that at 1440p (though rocks it for most games)

b.) you're not gonna be impressed with bootcamp gaming w/ a RMBP unless it's lighter gaming, a 650m is very mediocre...

c/d.) your gaming computer can be your hackintosh, how easy it is all depends on building around components that are known to work very well with os x... this means research, i can tell you the gtx 670/680 work great w/ os x, picking the right motherboard with the best audio/lan chipsets etc is another issue... i'd definitely think about it, it might work for you.

e.) mac pro - i approve, but i certainly wouldn't shell out for a machine based on technology that's so ridiculously out of date. wait for an upgrade or go back to c/d

 

[wilds94]

e.) mac pro - i approve, but i certainly wouldn't shell out for a machine based on technology that's so ridiculously out of date. wait for an upgrade or go back to c/d

What do we think about the possibility of a new mac pro in the works?

 

[cosmicjoke]

What do we think about the possibility of a new mac pro in the works?

the quote from tim cook was that something was in the work for the pros "later" this year. everything else is speculation... i'd imagine after all the ivy bridge xeons land

 

[Raima]

I can't believe people are actually suggesting the OP buy a max'd iMac, especially when he already has a very expensive laptop. Did none of you read this?

The OP also wrote in the subject line "I love OSX and Gaming.

The people who understand gaming here, knows the rMBP is not a good gaming machine. Graphic settings are generally defaulted somewhere between low and medium for most games on resolutions below 1080p.

A highly spec'd iMac i7 with a 680MX will have no problems running resolutions at 2550 x 1440 on maximum settings @ 45fps and above (depending on which game).

So as you can see, when it comes to meeting his gaming requirements, the rMBP will not cut it.

I can attest to it as I have tested both the rMBP and the iMac i7 with 680MX.

I hope this helps to improve understanding on why lots of people are recommending the i7 iMac for his needs.

 

[davidb367]

Like others in this thread I've been there. My MacPro 1,1 was purchased for the exact same reason 6 years ago. I was able to keep up with games for 3 years before the graphics requirements were too much (PCIe -> PCIe2.) I use my MacPro for my serious stuff and a gaming PC for games.

The $2.3K iMac will no longer be a viable gaming platform in 2 years. It can't be upgraded. Worse than that, the iMac will probably crap out in 3 years. iMacs have had a horrible track record for long term viability. That is a lot of cash for 2 years of use.

My opinion, keep the rMBP and build a gaming PC. The only extra layout of cash will be a new graphics card every 2 years. The processor requirements hardly ever change for games.

 

[Raima]

Worse than that, the iMac will probably crap out in 3 years. iMacs have had a horrible track record for long term viability. That is a lot of cash for 2 years of use.

How many iMac's have you had that have crapped out on you? My 2010 i7 iMac is over 3 years old and is still running strong. It's been running 24/7. Show's no signs of failure, but who knows, it could fail at any moment, but why worry, right? Will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

What do we think about the possibility of a new mac pro in the works?

If you can wait, and are willing to spend the big money that is probably your best option. No way to be sure because we don't know what Apple is going to offer.

Apple has had to withdraw the current Mac Pro from the European Union. It doesn't comply with a silly new fan guard rule.

There will be a new MacPro soon enough. I'm hoping we will see the return of a true server based on the updated box.

=====

We have a 675MX in our 27" iMac. I don't game enough to justify a 680MX.

Our iMac doesn't get hot running Valley or Heaven benchmarks. GPU temp does shoot up to around 90.

The computer doesn't even get warm playing Diablo 3 maxed out.

 

[itsamacthing]

Just boot camp a maxed out iMac... I highly doubt you will be disappointed

 

[davidb367]

How many iMac's have you had that have crapped out on you? My 2010 i7 iMac is over 3 years old and is still running strong. It's been running 24/7. Show's no signs of failure, but who knows, it could fail at any moment, but why worry, right? Will be interesting to see how long it lasts.

A friend of mine had a 2 older iMacs that the integrated GPU failed on. He replaced the daughter card twice on one and had the ball GPU reflowed once on the other. The newer iMacs are better thermally than the old ones, but the tight quarters inside the iMac are brutal on chips that are already run at high temps.

 

[MagicThief83]

Need help and information on deciding which is right for me.

I want to PC game, not at the highest fanatical end of PC gaming, but i'd like to be able to play the latest games on maxed at 1080p. I already have a rMBP 15" that runs quite hot, too hot for me to play games comfortably, but that may be because i'm running them off of a portable HDD because my SSD is only 256gb.
I do miss having a powerful workhorse desktop, but i am also jealous of my brother and his friends playing games on their windows laptops, which are half the price and still seem to be able to play games better than my rMBP. I don't mind spending a bit of money to get what i want; a computer that will do OSX and gaming quite well.'

So far i see my options as:

A) Maxed out 27" iMac with my own RAM in there. This is so far my favourite but theres mixed opinions out there on the quality of the GTX 680MX and and the fusion drive and even after hours of research i still find myself clueless on wether it will be able to play the latest PC games on 1080p at 60FPS, without being too hot or fans going nuts.

B) Buy a much bigger SSD for my rMBP and just running boot camp on that. Maybe having the games installed on my HDD may make the computer comparable too my friends gaming laptops, or maybe the Retina screen makes it struggle . Either way, if i could game well on this somehow, it would be a nice option, but expensive.

C) Build a gaming computer. I love OSX and use it every day and it's hard for me to justify building a computer to run windows just for gaming when i really hate windows. It isn't a bad option though, and i'm attracted to the idea of a powerful and cheaper machine but it would be better if it also ran OSX. which is my next option;

D) Build a Hackintosh. I love a challenge, and i love the idea of having the power of a custom built PC with the best gaming and the best OS, but is it too difficult? I don't know.

E) Buy a Mac Pro and throw a few more HDDs and a much better graphics card in there and run boot camp on it. Also love this idea, but who knows how it would work.

Either way, I am a computer nerd at heart and i miss having a workhorse desktop (sold my very old gaming PC when i got my first Macbook Air before my current rMBP). If the iMac is actually a workhorse, and haters are just bagging it because they hate apple, it might the best option. Please everyone, throw your opinions, suggestions, information, links at me to better help me make the right decision. You may have realised now i get a bit obsessed over things, and i think this forums is the best place to come for decent advice, so thanks in advance,

Will.

The answer to your question is simple: build a Hackintosh. I own a MBA and had an iMac and while the iMac provides respectable performance, you will find yourself missing the performance and capabilities of a true desktop. Like others have mentioned, if you take sometime and do the research, building and running a hackintosh isn't at all difficult and is extremely rewarding. Updating it isn't all that hard as well, people on this forum really exaggerate when they refer to and falsely so, to the difficulty of updating and maintaining a hackintosh. Just visit TonyMacx86 and the rest will fall into place. I was exactly in the same position as you and you know what? Building a hackintosh turned out to be the best choice! I have a beast of a build and can dual boot with separate SSDs into Mac OSX 10.8.4 and Windows 7. Also, I have a GTX 770 with 2GB of VRAM installed, so just use your imagination to guess the kind of performance I'm achieving in the latest PC titles on 1080p with a lot of graphic filters applied and high/ultra settings. I also have tons of storage partitioned for use with both OSes. If you buy an iMac, you will have to Bootcamp for decent gaming performance, and still your gimped by the mobile GPU and the lack of fusion drive utilization by Windows for performance. The decision is yours but mark my words, you'll not regret building a hackintosh. Another possible route is building a gaming PC and using a Mac Mini as your OSX driver. I love my Hack and can't see myself going back.

 

[MagicThief83]

I call this art and some beg to differ, but it's beautiful and an extremely powerful machine, and it's also very quiet despite the fact that there are 5 fans running in it.

 

[aggri1]

I reckon just build a gaming PC. Use your Mac for documents and online stuff, the PC for games. You don't have to use the PC for anything other than games if you also have a separate Mac.

I've a 2010 model iMac, which will be fine for general use for some time yet, I'm sure, but not for games. But rather than get a new Mac to play games, I'm eventually going to get a much cheaper PC, use that to run the games, the iMac as the screen, and the iMac for online stuff like paying bills.