iPod Help me shoot these comments down

[riciad]

.... in a nice polite way as they're comments from an app forum which I can't afford to be banned from.
I'm not really conversant with all the pros/cons as I don't have an iPod but I know enough to know their comments can mostly be rebutted.
They were in response to a member asking which mp3 player to get.

Comment 1-
I have a 20 gb archos gmini 220. I love it because I can transfer data files and progrmas on it. Ipod can not say that. or let me see them run an app on an ipod! that one still makes me laugh!

Comment 2-
Do you realise that if the battery or HD in your ipod packs it in you throw away the Ipod and buy a new one?
The Creative ZEN offers a removeable(replaceable) lithium battery. You can get anything from a simple 2gig version to the full colour 30gig version that plays 5:1 surround and videos.
Zen also plays wma files - most pros I've talked to reckon a 64kbps wma sounds as good as a 128kbps mp3.
It also plays video files on it's full colour screen.
It has a USB2 interface and can be used as a file storage unit as well as storing music.

 

[EricNau]

.... in a nice polite way as they're comments from an app forum which I can't afford to be banned from.
I'm not really conversant with all the pros/cons as I don't have an iPod but I know enough to know their comments can mostly be rebutted.
They were in response to a member asking which mp3 player to get.

Comment 1-
I have a 20 gb archos gmini 220. I love it because I can transfer data files and progrmas on it. Ipod can not say that. or let me see them run an app on an ipod! that one still makes me laugh!

Comment 2-
Do you realise that if the battery or HD in your ipod packs it in you throw away the Ipod and buy a new one?
The Creative ZEN offers a removeable(replaceable) lithium battery. You can get anything from a simple 2gig version to the full colour 30gig version that plays 5:1 surround and videos.
Zen also plays wma files - most pros I've talked to reckon a 64kbps wma sounds as good as a 128kbps mp3.
It also plays video files on it's full colour screen.
It has a USB2 interface and can be used as a file storage unit as well as storing music.

You can store any file on an iPod, as all iPods double as external HDD. As for running an app on any "mp3 player" I have no idea what they are talking about.

Why would I need to ever throw an iPod away, they don't break like Creative Zen's do.

iPod video

Any iPod (even the shuffle) can do this. (doubles as external HDD)

The special thing about the iPod is the interface, the clickwheel makes it easy to use, and the iTunes software with easy syncing makes it even easier. Also, the iTMS (iTunes Music Store) is the largest online music store in the world, but if they aren't buying iPods, they are probably pirating it anyway.

You can end your argument/debate with "Let the 85% market share speak for itself"

PS - make sure they know it is "iPod" not "IPod"

 

[Dr. Dastardly]

I'll give it a try but really only focus on comment two because comment one seems redundent.

Comment 2-
Do you realise that if the battery or HD in your ipod packs it in you throw away the Ipod and buy a new one?
The Creative ZEN offers a removeable(replaceable) lithium battery. You can get anything from a simple 2gig version to the full colour 30gig version that plays 5:1 surround and videos.

Though this is the number one and pretty much only concern with the iPod it is trivial at best. Did you know that the iPod comes with a one year warrenty standard and if any of those goes kaput you can get it replaced for free. Not to mention that I haven't seen an iPod repair bill cost more than $50. I'm sure the Zen isn't to far off that mark either for supplies to fix it.

Zen also plays wma files - most pros I've talked to reckon a 64kbps wma sounds as good as a 128kbps mp3.

What the hell pros is this guy talking to. Jimmy down the street with like a thousand CD's is not considered an audiophile, hate to break it to him. I know some that can easily tell the difference from a +192kbps encoding to a CD. 64kbps sounds like absolute crap and even my mom can hear it. Either the pro is either deaf or not a "music pro".

It also plays video files on it's full colour screen.

Uhh, so does the iPod

It has a USB2 interface and can be used as a file storage unit as well as storing music.

uhh, so can the iPod. It now uses usb2 (which is a blessing and a curse) and you can transfer any file or program to it using disk mode.

Hope that helps, the last quote seemed to be associated with comment 1. I have no idea what the hell app they are running on a Zen but the iPod does have third party programs that can get news, weather, email whatever and transfers to the iPod. Also keeps your schedule and plays games so really don't know what he is talking about there.

 

[Dr. Dastardly]

You can end your argument/debate with "Let the 85% market share speak for itself"

[cough]Windows[/cough]

 

[.:*Robot Boy*:.]

Comment 1-
I have a 20 gb archos gmini 220. I love it because I can transfer data files and progrmas on it. Ipod can not say that. or let me see them run an app on an ipod! that one still makes me laugh!

The iPod can be used to store data files. Also, simple (ie, self-contained) applications can be run off of the iPod.

Comment 2-
Do you realise that if the battery or HD in your ipod packs it in you throw away the Ipod and buy a new one?
The Creative ZEN offers a removeable(replaceable) lithium battery.

Wrong again. Granted, it's not as simple as replacing the battery in the ZEN, but a dead battery does not render the iPod useless.

You can get anything from a simple 2gig version to the full colour 30gig version that plays 5:1 surround and videos.

Well, Apple offer anything from a simple 512MB iPod Shuffle to the full colour 60gig iPod.

Zen also plays wma files - most pros I've talked to reckon a 64kbps wma sounds as good as a 128kbps mp3.

See the attached screenshots of a European Broadcasting Union paper on low bitrate audio codecs. Basically, AAC is always slightly better than WMA, and WMA is far better than MP3. So, technically the 'pros' are right - but AAC is better than WMA.

It also plays video files on it's full colour screen. It has a USB2 interface and can be used as a file storage unit as well as storing music.

Yep, the iPod's got that covered. Plus, it's so sexy!

 

[EricNau]

You can end your argument/debate with "Let the 85% market share speak for itself"

[cough]Windows[/cough]

Second thoughts: leave that part out.

 

[Bern]

You're not from Singapore are you?

 

[ToastMaster]

It also plays video files on it's full colour screen.

Well, the Zen really is better than the iPod in battery life, screen size (I actually prefer portability tho) and filetypes available to transfer, but I think in comparison to the sharp, fast screen on the iPod, the Zen's screen looks like crap. I've seen fast scenes in movies stutter and ghost like crazy on my friend's Zen.

 

[EricNau]

You could also tell them to "buy whatever they want, but when you have a problem don't come crying to me" - but then again - they wouldn't know what they are missing (kinda like cake, you think vanilla is great until you try chocolate) - you get the idea.

Better yet, just give them a link to this thread.

 

[riciad]

Thanks for all your help. I'll try to present the iPod's case in a reasonable, balanced manner. Personally, for myself the exterior design of the iPod would clinch the sale. That latest Creative just looks clunky.
Of course, I'll have to admit to being an Apple junkie, I can even start enthusing on the design of their packaging!

As I said, I have to stay on good terms with these people (they're a great bunch even if most of them do use PCs), as the forum is invaluable for my work. I resist the temptation to comment on windows based problems that wouldn't be problems on Macs as I don't want to be drawn into -my computer is better than yours- arguments.

Thanks again!

 

[Ubuntu]

I've not read all the replies yet, but a few points:

The Creative Zen Vision:M (the basic iPod killer) does not have a removable battery either.

Also, the iPod's USB interface is better as a hard disk, as it allows you to use any space that is available. For the Zen you must allocate a partition to external hard disk usage and another partition to music.

 

[riciad]

By the time time I got back to the other site, a few iPod users had joined in the discussion and done a good job of answering all the points raised here.
So, in the end, I just posted the comparison pics I found on another thread in this forum plus the thickness dimensions.
A picture is worth a thousand words! Cliché I know, but definitely applicable in this debate I think.

 

[Applespider]

Tee hee... unlike being a Mac user, there are so many iPod users that the majority of posters on most boards will defend it.

Another point is the range of accessories for the iPod...

 

[displaced]

Ah, just nod and smile

Seriously though, not only can all iPods store data, the nature of OS X makes it much easier to run apps from them.

Since many (most?) OS X apps are self-contained objects, they can simply be dragged onto the iPod, and run on any Mac you connect it to.

Not only that, but on iPods that support Firewire, there's nothing stopping you installing Mac OS X itself onto the iPod. You can then boot any Mac from that installation! Although perhaps not the best thing to do regularly, since the iPod's hard disk probably isn't designed for such intense usage. Nice to have as an emergency stand-by though!

Most importantly, in any Apple vs. PC debate, try to turn it into a discussion, not an argument or debate. Ask them what they want to know about the Mac/OS X/iPod and answer factually. Know your stuff, and don't make any assertions about the PC/Windows/whatever that you're not sure of. Ask them about how their stuff works. Talk freely about your side's failings, but always find out enough info to discover why the failing's there. And get technical -- you'll be surprised sometimes how little they know about their own systems

As for the battery: http://www.ipodbattery.com/

Keep up the knowledge-spreading!

 

[themacmaestro]

Comment 2-
Do you realise that if the battery or HD in your ipod packs it in you throw away the Ipod and buy a new one?
The Creative ZEN offers a removeable(replaceable) lithium battery. You can get anything from a simple 2gig version to the full colour 30gig version that plays 5:1 surround and videos.

The best way to solve the battery concern is to purchase a iPod from Best Buy. There warranty covers the replacement of the battery for 2 or 3 years, depending on the warranty purchased. For an iPod under $299 you get a Product Replacement Warranty, where they exchange over the counter, for $299 and up you get a Product Service Plan, where they actually try to fix it before they give you a new one.

Who cares about batteries then if you can get a new one for up to 2 or 3 years?

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Comment 1-
I have a 20 gb archos gmini 220. I love it because I can transfer data files and progrmas on it. Ipod can not say that. or let me see them run an app on an ipod! that one still makes me laugh!

I used my iPod to play World of Warcraft off of, and it worked wonderfully until I sold WoW. Then I couldn't play it anymore

 

[riciad]

Most importantly, in any Apple vs. PC debate, try to turn it into a discussion, not an argument or debate. Ask them what they want to know about the Mac/OS X/iPod and answer factually. Know your stuff, and don't make any assertions about the PC/Windows/whatever that you're not sure of. Ask them about how their stuff works. Talk freely about your side's failings, but always find out enough info to discover why the failing's there. And get technical -- you'll be surprised sometimes how little they know about their own systems

As for the battery: http://www.ipodbattery.com/

Keep up the knowledge-spreading!

I don't want to go there there on this particular forum as apparently there was a rather intense Mac vs PC debate before I joined it which engendered a lot of acrimony.

Otherwise I do try to spread the Mac gospel as much as possible.

 

[savar]

Comment 1-
I have a 20 gb archos gmini 220. I love it because I can transfer data files and progrmas on it. Ipod can not say that. or let me see them run an app on an ipod! that one still makes me laugh!

Don't know what they're saying. iPod can be used just like a normal USB2 hard drive. That includes running applications off it -- although obviously the only application which the iPod itself runs is the Apple stuff its pre-installed with. (Unless you remove that -- there is a linux for iPod available.) Maybe USB2 storage doesn't work with Windows? I don't know -- never tried that.

Comment 2-
Do you realise that if the battery or HD in your ipod packs it in you throw away the Ipod and buy a new one?
The Creative ZEN offers a removeable(replaceable) lithium battery. You can get anything from a simple 2gig version to the full colour 30gig version that plays 5:1 surround and videos.
Zen also plays wma files - most pros I've talked to reckon a 64kbps wma sounds as good as a 128kbps mp3.
It also plays video files on it's full colour screen.
It has a USB2 interface and can be used as a file storage unit as well as storing music.

The battery point is semi-valid. The iPod battery can be replaced, but its not easy. If you take it to the Apple Store they do it while you wait -- but I don't know how much it costs. Its not easy to do by yourself (without scratching the case) but thats the price of having a sealed unit. I prefer it this way. An iPod battery lasts for years. My old iPod got stolen before I wore the battery out (about 3 years) and trust me few people use theirs as much as I used mine.

iPod doesn't play 5.1 AFAIK, but that would be a nice touch. It doesn't take any extra decoding, I don't think, just a simple pass-through. Maybe Apple will add that in a future release.

64Kbs sounds like crap (unless we're talking mono encoding), I don't care what the format is. I don't know who the experts cited are, but I've listened to thousands of 128Kbs mp3s, and I generally like the sound, but 64 is like listening to a weak radio station. I can't comment on that comparison directly, but I really doubt it. WMA is probably a weak reason to buy a player, unless you know you really need to listen to particular WMA sources and don't want to transcode them yourself.

iPod can play videos on its full color screen. The interface actually lends itself to it. The screen is smaller than most portable media players but still very watchable for me (23 years old). I've played with quite a few media players in stores and all I can say is just compare them side-by-side. If you still think the iPod is weak and that an Archos is better, then you really should buy the Archos. I think you're insane, but you should buy the one you like better. Personally, I think the iPod is a great price performer and years ahead of anything else out there. Don't let the above arguments dissuade you.