Help me understand the 5 device limit for the ATVs in my home. Having problems.....

[Mr. Buzzcut]

So to answer the initial question, it sounds like once five devices sign in to home sharing you're done.

Maybe someone can help write a script that will automate what you're doing when the limit is reached.

 

[Gav2k]

So to answer the initial question, it sounds like once five devices sign in to home sharing you're done.

Maybe someone can help write a script that will automate what you're doing when the limit is reached.

No apple state 5 computers, apple tv's do not count towards this limit.

 

[gsander]

Each ATV is connected via a hard line at their location and each has their own assigned IP address on the system.

And here is all the possible devices connecting with the same iTunes account using home sharing.

Computers--> iMac (there is also a MBA and MBP but they do not connect to home sharing)
ATVs--> 6 in various locations
iPads --> 5 iPads (2 of them are rarely if ever used in a home sharing capacity and 1 not at all as it is used as a dedicated RTI remote)

Have you overlapped your static IP addresses with the DHCP assigned range for your wireless devices? This could be an issue if a wireless device grabs an address that duplicates one you statically assigned. In your router you should be able to set the DHCP range start address and the number of addresses within that pool. For example if Your DHCP range starts at 192.168.10.10 and has 16 addresses in the pool, do not assign static addresses from .10 thru .25

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

No apple state 5 computers, apple tv's do not count towards this limit.

Well color me confused then. I found a support article that made it sound like only five devices could be signed into home sharing.

If it's always a problem after the fifth ATV and it can be any of them, I'm not sure what to say.

My original thought was multicast issues but this behavior is pretty specific.

Going to be quiet now and see what other suggestions are offered.

 

[GhostMac24]

Ive had the exact same problem for about 6 months since acquiring my 6th ATV. Wired, wireless ATV2, ATV3 same thing - I asked a genius one day at the store and he had no idea about the limit. Nothing I've done works to get past it. Ive given up and created a separate hosted library on a second machine to host the kids only movies etc etc.

Kind of disappointing - with TV's dropping in price adding an ATV seems like a logical addition especially to rooms that do not have cable TV outlets or boxes.

We currently have 9 TV's in the house and I would most likely buy another 3 ATV's if the limit was removed.

Another option that i have tested and found to work was to run an in-wall HDMI cable from a HDMI splitter to separate TV's - you will get around the limit, however more than one TV share the ATV signal and view the same content. I have done this with a pair of TV's that would never be on at the same time

Great workaround ideas. But you are correct, disappointing that we even have to figure out workarounds.

The one thing I have given serious thought to is the separate machine hosting the kids library. The only problem is that we'd need to duplicate everything since the kids watch more than just the movies we file under kids. The other problem is we frequently watch kids movies (i.e., Disney) together in the theatre room. Frustrating, isn't it? 😕

Looking at Apple support it does appear to be a home sharing issue. The limit is five devices. Seems a bit arbitrary and is disappointing for anyone wishing to distribute content within their home using Apple devices.

Yes, that's what I was concluding which is the reason for starting this thread. I interpreted it as 5 devices. And arbitrary is right. My issue with that is 2 fold. First, if their goal is to get as many devices in your home as possible, wouldn't they remove a limit? And second, if there is a limit, do they think that the average consumer has 5 or less devices in their home? Maybe the single individual with no children, but families like ours with 2 kids are probably more the norm, no?

Is your router running the latest firmware? Do you use security/firewall software?

See if TCP ports 123 and 3689 as well as UDP ports 123 and 5353 are open.

Apple states that Macs and Apple TV use port 123 for time/date. If that is somehow blocked or is off, it will cause trouble with home sharing.

That is where I raise the white flag. Not sure where I'd find those settings. Further, I'm not sure why Apple would even want me to find them and have to set them.

Everybody has the latest firmware and software updates.

 

[GhostMac24]

Have you overlapped your static IP addresses with the DHCP assigned range for your wireless devices? This could be an issue if a wireless device grabs an address that duplicates one you statically assigned. In your router you should be able to set the DHCP range start address and the number of addresses within that pool. For example if Your DHCP range starts at 192.168.10.10 and has 16 addresses in the pool, do not assign static addresses from .10 thru .25

I'll have to check with that. I know we have a pretty large range since there are a ton of IP controlled devices in the home. For some reason I want to say the range is .2 to .100 which is probably too large but harmless. I do know that all the Directv boxes for example are in the 101 and up range. I'll have to check the ATV's and see what their assigned IP address is.

 

[GhostMac24]

One more interesting thing I just discovered. Even with all the devices powered down iTunes still thinks they are connected. See attached pic.

Maybe the solution is just to shut down iTunes at the end of the night before I head to bed and then open it back up in the morning and let it start from scratch once again???

 

[ohio.emt]

When the one doesn't connect, do the others still connect? Probably not the same problem as yours, but I had a problem with just one apple tv, losing connection to home share after just a day or two of none use, and had to restart iTunes. What worked for me was turning off darkwake.

 

[Tike1994]

Not sure if this is related, but I have a similar issue with itunes wifi sync. When I start itunes all the idevices in my house connect and will backup/sync fine.

After about a day, it's hit and miss whether they will continue to sync. Often, I'll check the idevices and see it's been several days since they've synced and if I tell them to "sync now" they'll try, but will time out with a message that my iMac isn't available.

If I restart itunes, everything works again. It's as if itunes goes into a sleep mode and loses all it it's connections but doesn't realize it. It doesn't refresh those connections until it's restarted.

 

[2010mini]

One more interesting thing I just discovered. Even with all the devices powered down iTunes still thinks they are connected. See attached pic.

Maybe the solution is just to shut down iTunes at the end of the night before I head to bed and then open it back up in the morning and let it start from scratch once again???

Shouldn't have to.

----------

Have you overlapped your static IP addresses with the DHCP assigned range for your wireless devices? This could be an issue if a wireless device grabs an address that duplicates one you statically assigned. In your router you should be able to set the DHCP range start address and the number of addresses within that pool. For example if Your DHCP range starts at 192.168.10.10 and has 16 addresses in the pool, do not assign static addresses from .10 thru .25

This could very well be the culprit

 

[priitv8]

I'll have to check with that. I know we have a pretty large range since there are a ton of IP controlled devices in the home. For some reason I want to say the range is .2 to .100 which is probably too large but harmless. I do know that all the Directv boxes for example are in the 101 and up range. I'll have to check the ATV's and see what their assigned IP address is.

If you need some devices to have fixed IP addresses, then why don't you make reservations for them in DHCP, instead of configuring each one's IP manually? That way you can be sure you won't get overlapping IP-s.

 

[GhostMac24]

When the one doesn't connect, do the others still connect? Probably not the same problem as yours, but I had a problem with just one apple tv, losing connection to home share after just a day or two of none use, and had to restart iTunes. What worked for me was turning off darkwake.

Some do some don't and it's never the same combination of devices, seems to be totally random when it happens.

Shouldn't have to.

----------



This could very well be the culprit

I agree, I'm starting to think THIS is the culprit.

If you need some devices to have fixed IP addresses, then why don't you make reservations for them in DHCP, instead of configuring each one's IP manually? That way you can be sure you won't get overlapping IP-s.

Maybe I'm confused then on the differences between making a res for each device versus setting up a fixed IP for each. This seems analogous as I would be setting a res for each device on the router so it has it's own unique identifier correct? How is that different than giving everybody a fixed IP address? In addition, setting up a DHCP res would be more labor intensive as I would have to manually setup each device and then repeat that task every "x" amount of time to renew the lease, no?

I know just enough to get in trouble but not enough to understand the nuts and bolts of each of the options available.

At the end of the day, it would be great if it "just worked"

 

[Flynnstone]

Are the IP addresses static or assigned by DHCP?
I assume your Airport Extreme is serving the IP addresses. Or does the modem serve them up to? Is the AE setup as a router?

I've had a similar problem in the past with my iMac with much less atvs.
I think mine was with Remote app & iTune on my iMac talking to my Airport Express to run outside speakers. A restart on iTunes would solve the problem.
I haven't seen my problem for a while though.
A lighting strike, cleansed me of some of my older equipment; older Airport Express & older Airport Extreme, Gbit switch.

 

[GhostMac24]

Are the IP addresses static or assigned by DHCP?
I assume your Airport Extreme is serving the IP addresses. Or does the modem serve them up to? Is the AE setup as a router?

I've had a similar problem in the past with my iMac with much less atvs.
I think mine was with Remote app & iTune on my iMac talking to my Airport Express to run outside speakers. A restart on iTunes would solve the problem.
I haven't seen my problem for a while though.
A lighting strike, cleansed me of some of my older equipment; older Airport Express & older Airport Extreme, Gbit switch.

I'm not sure if they are assigned or static. I thought they were static but thinking more about I am pretty sure they are assigned as they connect. That makes it all the more confusing to me as there should always be a free IP for them to grab when they fire up.

The modem is completely passive in the system. It merely gives us an internet connect. the AE handles everything (IP assignment, etc).

 

[2010mini]

I'm not sure if they are assigned or static. I thought they were static but thinking more about I am pretty sure they are assigned as they connect. That makes it all the more confusing to me as there should always be a free IP for them to grab when they fire up.

The modem is completely passive in the system. It merely gives us an internet connect. the AE handles everything (IP assignment, etc).

I have connected to networks that do not have static IPs assigned and my machine sometimes causes an IP conflict then the router assigns a new address. The wireless devices can pick up an IP that one of your ATVs has but is not using at the time. then you wake up that ATV, and boom, IP conflict.

Like it was mentioned before change your setting so the router will only give out address to wireless device between a certain range and the leave the other range to wired devices.

 

[GhostMac24]

I have connected to networks that do not have static IPs assigned and my machine sometimes causes an IP conflict then the router assigns a new address. The wireless devices can pick up an IP that one of your ATVs has but is not using at the time. then you wake up that ATV, and boom, IP conflict.

Like it was mentioned before change your setting so the router will only give out address to wireless device between a certain range and the leave the other range to wired devices.

Great explanation. Thanks! I'll work on that this weekend. Have a good friend that is a network admin and knows this stuff backwards and forwards. I always call on him first before I start tinkering around with the network in the house. I'll report back.

Thanks again for all the input.

 

[2010mini]

Great explanation. Thanks! I'll work on that this weekend. Have a good friend that is a network admin and knows this stuff backwards and forwards. I always call on him first before I start tinkering around with the network in the house. I'll report back.

Thanks again for all the input.

Hope it solves the issue.

 

[Tigger11]

Great explanation. Thanks! I'll work on that this weekend. Have a good friend that is a network admin and knows this stuff backwards and forwards. I always call on him first before I start tinkering around with the network in the house. I'll report back.

Thanks again for all the input.

I've seen the error here, and what I have seen makes me think your network fix probably isnt going to help. I would unplug power from all the AppleTvs, turn off (or restart) itunes, then apply power and reconnect each AppleTV one at a time, if you do that I think you actually may get all 6 working, however its not a real solution since once one of the AppleTVs drop out, they tend to not reconnect until either power is cycled or itunes is reset. It would be interesting to see if you can get six working at once at least temporarily with this attempt.

 

[GhostMac24]

Great idea to verify the number of connections. I'll give it a try here shortly and report back.

 

[justinmartin]

Here was my test setup.

Router 192.168.1.1 (tried several including time capsule, linksys, Astaro, Checkpoint)

MAC Mini OSX 10.9 - 192.168.1.10 - named MINI

ATV1 - 192.168.1.100 - ethernet - named LIVING
ATV2 - 192.168.1.101 - ethernet - named MASTER
ATV3 - 192.168.1.102 - ethernet - named KATE
ATV4 - 192.168.1.103 - ethernet - named OWEN
ATV5 - 192.168.1.104 - ethernet - named FAMILY
ATV6 - 192.168.1.105 - ethernet - named KITCHEN

MINI and all ATV's shared the following configs:
All addresses are static and DHCP has been disabled and IP address's have been confirmed.
IP Address: 192.168.1.xxx
Subnet Mask: 255.255.255.0
DNS: 192.168.1.1

All devices could access the internet and use NETFLIX

ATV1 powered up all good, access to MINI
ATV2 powered up all good, access to MINI
ATV3 powered up all good, access to MINI
ATV4 powered up all good, access to MINI
ATV5 powered up all good, access to MINI
ATV6 powered up - can't connect

Shut everything down, and changed the order in which they were previously used and now ATV6 connects and in reverse order ATV1 no longer connects.

Like i said earlier. Ive done quite a bit of testing on completely isolated networks both wired and wireless and no luck aside from cheating and using an HDMI splitter and in wall cables. As I also mentioned earlier, I have just added a secondary MAC to host KIDS only media knowing that only certain ATV's will be connecting to it.

I have also taken it as far as to test this setup on one table rather than having to run room to room.

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

Here was my test setup

<snip>

Thanks for testing that. I am in the planning phase of how to distribute my media throughout my home and this is helpful info.

I have not been able to find documentation that specifically discusses home sharing limitations with Apple TV.

The icing on the cake woul be if someone could do a packet capture on the iTunes PC as the sixth ATV is attempting to connect. I'd like to know it it sees the traffic and responds at all to it.

 

[The-Pro]

Ive been monitoring this thread as I know someone who is planning a 10-15 tv setup that can each get access to a central media server with about 2000 movies. As they have 2 apple tv's at home working in the same way we were thinking about using apple tv's for the new setup. We didn't know if iTunes could support that many streams simultaneously. It would have to be able to run about 10 simultaneously at max. So we were planning on testing the setup in the next weeks. I was in apple stores talking to geniuses. They didn't know. I was on tech support for bout 30 mins and they looked at every single restriction they could find and concluded that to their knowledge that many apple tv's playing simultaneously from one library has never been tested and they cant tell me if it will or will not work.
Not once did it occur to me that there would be a restriction on how many apple tvs can have access (although I should have, it is apple after all)
So it seems there really is a 5 apple tv limit. What a load of rubbish. If this is performance related, that with more connected the system crashes or whatever, then ok, that makes sense but atleast tell the consumers about it. But if its just apple laying down another restriction for ***** and giggles then that makes me furious.

Maybe a workaround can be found.

So this restriction, does it only apply to apple tv's connected or also to ipads. Is it possible to have 5 apple tv's and 5 ipads connected?

 

[GhostMac24]

It would appear that there is in fact a 5 device limit. I have tried to get all 6 to connect to Home Sharing and it's only the first 5 that connect with the 6th one saying "Could not connect to 'x' library. Make sure the computer is on and home sharing is on, etc, etc, etc"

To make sure there were no conflicts I assigned them each their own DHCP reservations in the Airport Utility OUTSIDE the IP range. All 6 show up with their address verified by the Fing network scanner app. All 6 can access our purchased movies, music, etc, but not home sharing.

What's completely odd though is I have shut down and fired up all 6 ATVs and then started connecting them 1 at a time. No matter what order I did, the 6th in the queue would get the error.

However, with 5 ATVs running I can get a couple of my iPads to stream a movie from the shared library. This is with one caveat, the iPads get the error message (quite often) "you don't have permission to access the requested resource" to which I shut down the videos app, re-open and I can usually get it connect.

This is incredibly frustrating. I'm about ready to sell off the ATVs and find a different solution that won't give such issues.

 

[The-Pro]

Interesting

What happens if you, lets say, connect 3 apple tv's and 2 ipad's and then try to connect more ipads and apple tvs.
Im interesting if its any 5 devices connected or literally only 5 apple tvs.

 

[JabberWokker]

Hi All,

The problem is a pain and apple should not allow just five. But it exists and I have done extensive work on finding a working solution.

Quite simple really, for example I run a MacMini with up to ten working ATVs at one time and the limit can go further, I have tested. Just have multiple users logged in where each user runs a copy of iTunes and points to all your media. Make sure that the iTunes library has a different home sharing name as the remote gets problems and of course a different Apple ID just for the home sharing. Only up to five apple tvs should be setup to use each home sharing account. Incidentally i just use an old 4gb core duo 2.5 MacMini for this.

The only pain is you need to log into each itunes user to add the media separately when you add a movie etc. I can't remember off hand but there are only a handful of files you need to be different for each user. It's also a problem with the remote as you can only have one home sharing account on the device setup at a time, so I use an ipod for my second one.

So there it is, a working solution, not elegant but does the job rather well.

Hope this helps you all.