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Help! Repasted 2013 rMBP and now I can't read CPU temps.
- Thread starter Wickedness
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Well i am not sure why you experinced it eating into your rmbp heatsinks, unless the copper used wasn't the best quality or you had some fake CLU liquid metal, and yea there was some fake stuff going around.
It is supposed to dry out and leave a solder like finish when it does. I have upgraded GFX cards and returned the standard coolers on the cards and inspected the die surfaces for damage and heatsinks after removal, and the GTX 680 sli setup was well over a year old close to 2 years before the 980's replaced them. not one 680gtx showed any sign of pitting or damage on the heatsink or die. and ran the same temps for 2 years from day one.
the hex core CPU is still in that machine and again the temps have not changed. i will keep an eye on the macbook pro temps but so far all I've seen is a great improvement over the stock thermal paste used. and i have to disagree with the quantity of paste being used as making little difference. all that Ouse's out the sides of the heat sink and sits on the CPU or GPU surrounding the core itself acts as a blanket and can increase temps.
application of any tim is the key to gaining better temps, having tried them all in many machines the CLU has the best thermal transfer of any I've used. but time will tell if my macbook pro suffers from heating up after a year and damages the die and the heatsink, it can only be the poor copper quality used in the heatsinks by apple. as a good quality heatsink CLU has not touched the surface at all. can only be down to the purity of the copper used as heatsinks.
I will be keeping an eye on temps of the macbook pro for sure. thanks for the warning! its a shame apple use only copper centers in there heat pipe setups and not all copper. and I've seen copper looking heatsinks that were infact ali underneath the anodising
Everything you said makes sense. My temps were also better than MX-4, it's just the improvements wasn't worth it.
I can't be sure that my Liquid Pro wasn't fake. Maybe it's indeed rMBP heatsink alloy that isn't 100% copper?
OP:
1. I would reset NVRAM and see if that helps. It usually fixes quirks that occur when using 3rd party monitoring and fan control apps. If nothing changes give resetting the SMC a try.
2. I don't know if this is relevant at all, but I'd try repairing disk permissions, rebuilding the kext cache and restarting OSX afterwards.
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As to CLU, it really shines when used on delidded desktop CPUs where the use of massive non-aluminum heatsinks and watercooling makes all the difference when gaming and oc your rig.
On a macbook that has a tiny heatsink and is aircooled, performance gains are negligible over safe high-quality TIMs, that it does not justify the potentially fatal consequence of shorting some component in a tightly packed area (esp when an expensive logic board replacement is likely the only solution)
And based on what I've read, macbook's heatsinks aren't pure copper. They appear to contain Aluminium or some other reactive (to CLU) metal. That said it's been used with success by some, but I would never recommend its use when it comes to laptops.
1. I would reset NVRAM and see if that helps. It usually fixes quirks that occur when using 3rd party monitoring and fan control apps. If nothing changes give resetting the SMC a try.
2. I don't know if this is relevant at all, but I'd try repairing disk permissions, rebuilding the kext cache and restarting OSX afterwards.
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As to CLU, it really shines when used on delidded desktop CPUs where the use of massive non-aluminum heatsinks and watercooling makes all the difference when gaming and oc your rig.
On a macbook that has a tiny heatsink and is aircooled, performance gains are negligible over safe high-quality TIMs, that it does not justify the potentially fatal consequence of shorting some component in a tightly packed area (esp when an expensive logic board replacement is likely the only solution)
And based on what I've read, macbook's heatsinks aren't pure copper. They appear to contain Aluminium or some other reactive (to CLU) metal. That said it's been used with success by some, but I would never recommend its use when it comes to laptops.
Update: I tried making a new account on my computer and installing Macs Fan Control for that account. The same behavior persists. Will try full OS X reinstall after I finish a project I'm currently working on.
That's way too much paste, I echo the other posters comments. The perceived decrease in temps is only a few degrees.
I don't think that's going to help, in all likihood you damaged the computer during your thermal paste re-application.
I couldn't tell from the pictures, but did you try to polish the heat sink as well? That does look rather scuffed up.
No, I didn't try to polish the heat sink. The scuffs come standard from the factory
. It might be interesting to see the effects of polishing with fine sandpaper, but I can't do any serious thermal testing until this temperature measurement issue is squared away.Honestly, I don't think I physically damaged the computer. I was extremely careful with every step, and I don't recall a single moment in which I used undue force. I have steady hands after many hours of soldering and PC building. It's true that I used too much paste and that could have been better, but I don't see how that could affect temperature measurement by the rMBP's sensors. Will update with more info later.
Let's say that you did manage to reduce the operating temp of your laptop by a few degrees...what exactly is the point since it wasn't overheating to begin with?
Update: After reinstalling OS X, the problem persists .
Description of the problem:
1. If the computer is left to idle or used lightly, temperatures and fan speed readings stop updating (usually around temperatures of 40 C).
2. If the computer is pushed to high load, temperature and fan updates resume. Fans spin up to appropriate speeds under automatic system control; everything seems to be fine.
3. This behavior is consistent across all of the popular fan speed reading programs.
EDIT: 4. Changing the fan speed from system automatic control to a user selected value restores normal updating behavior.
What I've tried:
1. Visually checked all connections on the logic board.
2. Reinstalled OS X Yosemite clean; no time machine backup used yet.
3. Reset SMC.
4. Reset NVRAM.
EDIT: 5. Repair disk permissions on Macintosh HD.
I'm becoming very frustrated with this problem and with myself for trying the repasting mod. In general, my computer works fine except for the issue with reading temperatures at non-peak CPU usage. I'm starting to think I should just give up on solving this problem and just use my computer like a normal person. Unfortunately, because the temp programs don't work, I can't share whether or not repasting made a difference.
If anyone has any further suggestions, I'd be very appreciative. Could removing some of the excess paste help?
. Description of the problem:
1. If the computer is left to idle or used lightly, temperatures and fan speed readings stop updating (usually around temperatures of 40 C).
2. If the computer is pushed to high load, temperature and fan updates resume. Fans spin up to appropriate speeds under automatic system control; everything seems to be fine.
3. This behavior is consistent across all of the popular fan speed reading programs.
EDIT: 4. Changing the fan speed from system automatic control to a user selected value restores normal updating behavior.
What I've tried:
1. Visually checked all connections on the logic board.
2. Reinstalled OS X Yosemite clean; no time machine backup used yet.
3. Reset SMC.
4. Reset NVRAM.
EDIT: 5. Repair disk permissions on Macintosh HD.
I'm becoming very frustrated with this problem and with myself for trying the repasting mod. In general, my computer works fine except for the issue with reading temperatures at non-peak CPU usage. I'm starting to think I should just give up on solving this problem and just use my computer like a normal person. Unfortunately, because the temp programs don't work, I can't share whether or not repasting made a difference
. If anyone has any further suggestions, I'd be very appreciative. Could removing some of the excess paste help?
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Hey Wickedness,
Don't blame yourself just yet. If you have yet to, I suggest running Apple Diagnostics and see if it can identify any problem and try to move on from there (get it repair/live with it).
/rant
It is funny how Apple as a brand (used to?) market themselves to the "Think different, Crazy ones, Misfits, Rebels, Troublemakers" group of people yet the culture among Apple users are the exact opposite of that. People who are curious and tinker with their hardware are absolutely condemned.
/end rant
edit: Some people claimed AS5 to be conductive (funnily enough I've never used it on my CPUs before), if it is true that might mess with the sensors if there is too much of it. However, in my experience excessive paste never result in problem for me but you can definitely try cleaning it up or try another brand of thermal paste and see if that will make a difference.
Cheers.
Don't blame yourself just yet. If you have yet to, I suggest running Apple Diagnostics and see if it can identify any problem and try to move on from there (get it repair/live with it).
/rant
It is funny how Apple as a brand (used to?) market themselves to the "Think different, Crazy ones, Misfits, Rebels, Troublemakers" group of people yet the culture among Apple users are the exact opposite of that. People who are curious and tinker with their hardware are absolutely condemned.
/end rant
edit: Some people claimed AS5 to be conductive (funnily enough I've never used it on my CPUs before), if it is true that might mess with the sensors if there is too much of it. However, in my experience excessive paste never result in problem for me but you can definitely try cleaning it up or try another brand of thermal paste and see if that will make a difference.
Cheers.
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Why is everybody so negative? It's not some ancient black magic he/she is doing, it's fixing a computer.. There is nothing wrong with replacing the thermal paste.
Secondly about the problem: Have you tried to reinstall the OS or at least reinstall the temperature monitor software? Do that to rule out a software problem. Could there be a problem with the application not working for Yosemite etc..? If the computer does not recognize the sensors it should affect the fans, and at least in my experience it will run them on max to be safe.
If that does not work you can start looking for sensors. I have replaced the touchpad around three times and not damaged the sensor. I did not even know it had a sensor until I experienced another problem and started troubleshooting, so i don't think they are so extremely sensitive.
Find out where these sensors are placed in your computer, see which ones you have been close to or touching while working, and see if there is any corrosion or connection problems.
Good luck, and it's great that you fiddle. If no one did there would be no one to learn from.
Secondly about the problem: Have you tried to reinstall the OS or at least reinstall the temperature monitor software? Do that to rule out a software problem. Could there be a problem with the application not working for Yosemite etc..? If the computer does not recognize the sensors it should affect the fans, and at least in my experience it will run them on max to be safe.
If that does not work you can start looking for sensors. I have replaced the touchpad around three times and not damaged the sensor. I did not even know it had a sensor until I experienced another problem and started troubleshooting, so i don't think they are so extremely sensitive.
Find out where these sensors are placed in your computer, see which ones you have been close to or touching while working, and see if there is any corrosion or connection problems.
Good luck, and it's great that you fiddle. If no one did there would be no one to learn from.
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To me it`s still a software issue, as the fans are spooling up when the system is under load, so the sensors are working, the issue is that readout is not accurate. Have you seen the charging LED cycle during SMC reset? If not run the system on the battery for some time and then try LED will then cycle red, green, red. You will then be sure certain the SMC has been reset.
I would also only install one temperature monitor app initially, say Macs Fan Control (try the Beta from the Crystaldea forum as its more 10.10 compatible), have seen some weird stuff on Mac`s with fans and associated speeds due to mixing and matching temp control apps, however that was back in the early days the MBP.
What`s your environment like; is it very dry? did you ground yourself or the Notebook prior to working on it? Static can and does damage components, however I still believe it`s software related. If I was in your position I would completely return the system to "stock" erase all partitions and install Mavericks, perform SMC reset ensuring the LED cycles then install Macs Fan Control (latest release not the new Beta) or SMC fan control as this is a very developed app.
Q-6
I would also only install one temperature monitor app initially, say Macs Fan Control (try the Beta from the Crystaldea forum as its more 10.10 compatible), have seen some weird stuff on Mac`s with fans and associated speeds due to mixing and matching temp control apps, however that was back in the early days the MBP.
What`s your environment like; is it very dry? did you ground yourself or the Notebook prior to working on it? Static can and does damage components, however I still believe it`s software related. If I was in your position I would completely return the system to "stock" erase all partitions and install Mavericks, perform SMC reset ensuring the LED cycles then install Macs Fan Control (latest release not the new Beta) or SMC fan control as this is a very developed app.
Q-6
While I try to not be negative, I think it boils down to by fix something that isn't broke. What occurred imo, is that the OP did damage the computer in some way in his attempt to re-apply the thermal paste.
I'm not trying to be critical of him, just pointing out, the fans were working fine and the CPU temps were being reported correctly and continually before he took it apart. Now they don't work. Computers these days especially laptops have such small and delicate parts, its not unheard of for him to easily break something without even realizing it.
OP, one thing that I was thing of. When you were working on your laptop, did you use a grounding wristband. I wonder static electricity may be the culprit to your issues, i.e., static electricity shorted something out.
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I'm just not seeing it being software. I can see resetting the SMC, but failing that, its most like hardware. I've worked on my share of computers through the years and I can't imagine software being the issue. A cable was knocked loose, a component on the logic board was damaged or static electricity did something.
If he did all the normal stuff, like resetting the SMC, and even reinstalling OS X then I'd say its not software, i.e., removed that variable from the equation. The bottom line is it worked before disassembling and now it doesn't, that points to a hardware failure imo.
On Mac`s generally if there is a sensor failure, the fans will run at full speed, as they are held down not ramped up so to speak. OP says the fans spool up under load which implies normal function. As for reinstalling OS X it must be a "clean" install after the drive is erased. Static is definitely valid as it tends to damage rather than destroy and leaves little to no trace.
If the OP has the time he can try as there`s nothing to lose so to speak, equally your point is valid and there is risk in opening a Notebook without the right awareness.
Correct, I'll not argue that point, but I'm still a doubting thomas that a clean install is going to correct this. I've done this in the past, and I've not needed to any of those steps.
The OP did reinstall the OS, there's nothing left to exclude, other then it being a hardware failure (in some form).
Maybe a little more direct and towards the OP, as I have seen some say they have done a clean install of OS X, when in reality that have just reloaded the OS from Apple as they did not format the drive prior to the install, so any application SW and parts of remain.
If drive was erased prior to OS X install then hardware it is, but you see my point, hopefully
Q-6
This may sound counter-intuitive, but I'd try repasting again...with a different TIM. If you do, please make sure you do a meticulous job of cleaning all of the AS5 previously used. Among the good & safe TIMs to choose from Phobya Nanogrease, Gelid GC-Extreme & Arctic MX-4 come to mind.
As to the why, while AS is not conductive it is capacitive. Can that cause sensors to go haywire? I don't know, but in your case it might be something worth investigating.
As to the why, while AS is not conductive it is capacitive. Can that cause sensors to go haywire? I don't know, but in your case it might be something worth investigating.
*shaking head* not to be harsh but did you spend $1200-2k on a mac just to browse the net / follow the its cool trend? I just can't imagine anyone who buys a MacBook for work, design, dev, or real purpose doing such a thing. Lately is just seems like the people who tanker, excessively worry about temp, battery/ssd health %, etc.. (things that Apple would cover if something goes wrong) tend to use there Macbook for casual browsing/inet usage. I may be total wrong but the things people are concerned about / doing to there system is crazy. It's bad cause now something like this will have some other user thinking they should open up there mac and change the thermo paste.
There needs to be a Casual User forum section
There needs to be a Casual User forum section
I really can't see the correlation between being interested in discovering how the computer works under the hood and just using it to check facebook. If something it should be a good thing for people in IT or "real purpose" jobs to know a thing or two about the tool they use every day.
That said there should always be a plan B if you tinker and work on the same machine.
Just for curiosity, how high is the risk of causing damage to a computer while tinkering? Are most people just lucky or is it not as dangerous as most people think? The apple employees in my city looked at me like I told them i eat kittens for suggesting that i wanted to tighten the screws of the chassi by myself instead of giving the computer to them and come back the next week.
I think the risk is pretty high. These machines are so compact, stripping a screw or to much force can cause a lot of problems. I tinker/upgrade gadgets and laptops as well. Touching on your question, I can see why the Apple employees were shocked. They personal know the correct amount of torx to apply to each screw (and not all screws have the same amount). If they end up over tightening a screw resulting in a problem they'll fix it for free. If you 100% know what you're doing have the right tools and its not a big deal if you cause damage to the system then, go for it.
Oh god, they would never survive to hear what I've done to my MacBook then...
Still I have never destroyed anything on it and that surprises me if I you are right. For me it's just cables in and out, being careful with the sockets and touching metal now and then. Of course assuming i use the right tools and don't make any stupid misstakes like dropping the logic board in my coffee. I never thought I could possibly break anything while tightening the screws, it's just small metal parts attached to the chassi. Maybe I was a bit careful with the screws on the logic board, but I can't believe the staff at apple care how hard the put each screw. Though I agree with the warranty point.
Are you sure it's so important? Is there anyone here on the forum who has worked for Apple and knows for sure, or can tell what kinds of safety measures they take?
PS. I read information about the topic for several days and different sources before attempting any tinkering, so I don't just wing it as it could seem from my questions.
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