Helping Someone Switch - Mac Concepts

Discussion in 'Mac Basics and Help' started by Aperture, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. Aperture macrumors 68000

    Aperture

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
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    PA
    #1
    Hi Guys,

    I've always struggled with explaining to people the difference between quitting an application and closing a window (when I'm helping someone switch to the Mac), since Windows just quits the application when you push the X, no matter what.

    I tend to just close the Safari and Mail windows and quit all other applications that I'm done working in. I know some applications will automatically quit when you push the close button to preserve memory. What I'm trying to say is that I, personally, like the Mac way better (and it is more efficient) but am not sure how to convey that.

    So, if you're helping someone switch, what is the best way to explain this concept? It usually gets a "I thought Macs were supposed to be easier" kind of look. I've considered not even bothering explaining it but I expect the person will end up with 20 open applications.

    Any ideas?
     
  2. chainprayer macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    #2
    its like its closed but still in memory, waiting to spring back up right away at your command.
     
  3. Aranince macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2007
    Location:
    California
    #3
    Hmm. You could explain it in a way that, unlike Windows, Mac programs run independent from the windows that are displayed. For example, in Windows if you have, lets say OpenOffice open and you want to have multiple documents open, you have to have multiple instances of the program running(making your computer slow, adding to the clutter of your task bar). So you end up having 2 or 3 instances of the program running.

    On a Mac, to make things simpler, you have one instance of the program running with multiple windows. This way, instead of having to try and search through your task bar to find which one you need, you simply click on the program you want to work with, and the appropriate windows should come up.

    When you close the window, it does not mean the program has closed. The program keeps running just incase you want to keep using it. That way if you want to open another document, you don't have to wait while the program loads again. Its already open and ready to be used.

    But the the best way to find what your looking for is Exposé.

    (Disclaimer: I currently do not own a Mac; Coming soon!)
     
  4. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #4
    Remember to make sure they get that it's running in the background even when you cannot see it when you haven to quite the application.

    "This makes it so when you're done with browsing the internet, you close out of the window, knowing you will open it again soon - it reduces the time that it will take to open the next window. With a windows machine, you have to fully open the program/application again, taking longer."

    "This also helps to preserve data and to clear up clutter on your screen."

    Try something like that.
     
  5. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    #5
    Some programs, like Safari, Mail, Finder, iCal, Preview, TextEdit, Excel, etc. can have multiple windows open. For these programs, Mac OS X doesn't assume that closing a window necessarily means you want to close the application. Other programs, like System Preferences, Airport Utility, iMovie, Disk Utility, etc. do not allow multiple windows, so if you close the only window associated with the program, you close the program.
     
  6. iMacmatician macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    #6
    1. When app is not open:
    Code:
     
     
    Mac OS X
    2. When app is open with multiple windows open:
    Code:
    Window 1  Window 2  Window 3
           Application 1
              Mac OS X
    3. When all the windows of the app is closed:
    Code:
     
    Application 1
       Mac OS X
    The application itself is still open even when all its windows are closed.

    4. Quitting the application (from 2. or 3.) closes the application itself (and all its windows), so you get back to 1.

    For apps like System Preferences that have one window that quits when the window is closed, the window can be thought of as tied to the app.
    Code:
     
    Application 2 + Window
           Mac OS X
     
  7. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #7
    As a recent switcher, this is one concept I had huge difficulty with and which took me quite a while to grasp. No-one had mentioned it to me, (when I got my MBP the chap in the shop kindly - at my request - put together a list of keyboard commands and shortcuts; I assumed everything was solved for the switch, and of course, it wasn't).

    However, this issue only became a noticeable problem during downloads of software updates. The instructions kept telling me to "quit" the application, and I assumed I had, having closed them, which is what one does in Windows, when one clicks on the little corner "x". Thus, I simply cancelled the downloading procedure on a few occasions, being unable to proceed any further, and not understanding what was required. It was frustrating, to put it mildly. One day the proverbial penny dropped, and I clicked on "quit" instead of simply closing. That worked.

    It is something I mention to anyone who is thinking of switching (along with the right click function, lack thereof and how to locate the equivalent in Macworld.) I'm not sure I could explain it without being able demonstrate on an actual computer.

    When I raised this very point some weeks back, having just joined the forum, amac4me very kindly responded with the following: (I've cut and pasted from the thread where this was, a thread I had started: I thought it a pretty good explanation.)

    "Put another way ... as a general rule, document-centric applications (such as Text Edit) or applications that can have more than one window open at a time (such as Safari) will stay active when the red close button is clicked. Single window applications (such as Calculator and System Preferences) on the other hand will quit when the red close button is clicked."

    Thanks for all your support.
    Cheers
     
  8. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    Mar 23, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #8
    We have a right click! It's just not enabled to begin with, which doesn't really make any sense...
     
  9. Aperture thread starter macrumors 68000

    Aperture

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2006
    Location:
    PA
    #9
    Certainly. There is an option to use a double finger right click in System Preferences. You can use a 2 button mouse or a Mighty Mouse, as well.

    & to everyone else who replied, thanks for the suggestions so far! The 3 things (IMO) that are hardest to grasp about a Mac are disk images, smart resize, and quit/close. I've had no trouble explaining the first two, it is the last one that is the problem causer.
     
  10. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #10
    Yeah, I know that now, but thanks. I ran howling to the Apple shop, where my hand was held (again) and kindly informed that the trackpad bar and control key simultaneously held down would do it for me; it was just finding out what the equivalent was.

    And yes, resizing windows, and the Green button are still concepts that I can honestly say have not been "fully integrated", shall we say and is something that I'm still mastering. Screen settings wee helpful in this regard. Sigh. It is a learning curve. But, it's fun.

    Oh, and do mention problems with printers. This is something (just look at the number of threads on the topic under different headings and sections) that does pose difficulties. On Windows, linking up any printer was a doddle, surprisingly. Some of the printers themselves were moody pieces of equipment, but the linking was the least of the problems. Anyway, I've just posted on another thread (called "Rant") in this section about new Mac switchers and printer driver woes.

    Good luck and cheers
     
  11. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    Mar 23, 2008
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    #11
    Ah yes, the mysterious green button.

    I think it's supposed to resize your window to the max amount of space you theoretically need to run whatever is in that window, but I'm not sure it always works right, especially in Safari.
     
  12. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    May 16, 2008
    #12
    This is not true. Right-click works automatically with no need to be enabled.
     
  13. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    #13
    Really? I am almost positive that I had to go into System Prefs and enable. Maybe I'm not remembering correctly...
     
  14. Aperture thread starter macrumors 68000

    Aperture

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    #14
    Are you sure? I recently setup a Macbook and had to enable it. (or do you mean on physical mice?)

    Edit:
    Wow, I was one minute too late.
     
  15. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    #15
    Actually, I have a Mighty Mouse. Maybe it was changed with one of the software updates? I'm referring to the day that Leopard came out, so it very well may have changed since then.
     
  16. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    Aug 2, 2002
    Location:
    Cork, Ireland.
    #16
    As has been mentioned above, if it's a single-window application (like System Preferences), it'll generally quit when closed. If it's a multiple window app, it'll stay running.

    Personally I think the 'running' indicators in the Dock aren't nearly clear enough; hence I always use the app switcher for quitting apps (as well as hiding them, and obviously switching between them).
     
  17. Cameront9 macrumors 6502a

    Cameront9

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    Aug 6, 2006
    #17
    I'm not sure about the trackpad prefs but I am pretty sure the Mighty Mouse right click has to be enabled.
     
  18. GGJstudios macrumors Westmere

    GGJstudios

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    May 16, 2008
    #18
    There is nothing in System Preferences that addresses enabling right-clicking. Plug in any mouse and right-click.... it just works. Nothing to set up.
     

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  19. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    #19
    I see something different...
     

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  20. REVOLUTION GUNS macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2008
    #20
    The Mighty Mouse requires that you specify if you want to use the right side of the mouse as the secondary button. A MacBook/MacBook Pro (and pretty much all previous-generation Apple laptops) has a trackpad button that is physically only one button without the ability to detect a "right-click," and so you an enable having two fingers on the trackpad while you click the button to ctrl-click or pull up a context menu. Any standard USB mouse with two buttons, however, will automatically perform the equivalent of a ctrl-click when you right-click.
     
  21. alphaod macrumors Core

    alphaod

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    Feb 9, 2008
    Location:
    NYC
    #21
    You have to physically quit things. Close in OS X is like close the current document in Word oppose exiting the program.
     
  22. Aperture thread starter macrumors 68000

    Aperture

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    Mar 19, 2006
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    PA
    #22
    Not to derail the thread, but you can setup the notebooks to instantly detect a two finger tap as a right click - no need to use ctrl.

    So, to clarify, the Mighty Mouse does need to be configured with a right click, regular mice do not, and the trackpads do.
     
  23. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    #23
    Well, thanks for the clarification, but what are we going to argue about now?

    /kidding
     
  24. iMacmatician macrumors 601

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    Jul 20, 2008
    #24
    It doesn't work in TextEdit. Try it.
     
  25. munson macrumors 6502

    munson

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    Mar 23, 2008
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    Boston, MA
    #25
    I use the button, and get two sizes - too big, and too small, heh.

    Yeah, it was just a theory, something I noticed. I still really don't know what the green button actually does/is supposed to do.
     

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